Flight attendants challenge FAA on electronic devices
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Flight attendants challenge FAA on electronic devices
Flight attendants challenge FAA on electronic devices
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Flight attendants battled federal aviation officials in court Friday to keep airline passengers from using electronic devices during takeoffs and landings.
The Association of Flight Attendants asked a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit to overturn a ruling the Federal Aviation Administration made last year easing the use of computer tablets and smartphones on planes.
The flight attendants said the FAA violated the rule-making process when it lifted restrictions that prevented passengers from using electronic devices on takeoffs and landings
The FAA changed the rules without taking in public comment, the flight attendants argued. The union also worries that electronic devices can bounce around the cabin during turbulence and injure passengers.
When an agency proposes a controversial change in a rule that affects public safety, it must be made through the proper rule-making process, the flight attendants said in a court document.
But the Court of Appeals seemed to be siding with the FAA.
Airlines have always had discretion on how to handle this, Judge Harry T. Edwards told a lawyer for the union, according to the Associated Press. A final written ruling is expected to be released later.
Under the new FAA rules, electronic devices must be kept in "airplane mode" during takeoffs and landing. Voice calls are still forbidden on U.S. airlines.
"We are confident in our position that the FAA violated the administrative procedure act in enacting a new national policy that directly conflicts with an existing regulation", said Amanda Dure, an attorney for the 60,000-member flight attendants union.
The FAA declined to comment on the case.
2014 Los Angeles Times
Now I'm confused.THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Flight attendants battled federal aviation officials in court Friday to keep airline passengers from using electronic devices during takeoffs and landings.
The Association of Flight Attendants asked a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit to overturn a ruling the Federal Aviation Administration made last year easing the use of computer tablets and smartphones on planes.
The flight attendants said the FAA violated the rule-making process when it lifted restrictions that prevented passengers from using electronic devices on takeoffs and landings
The FAA changed the rules without taking in public comment, the flight attendants argued. The union also worries that electronic devices can bounce around the cabin during turbulence and injure passengers.
When an agency proposes a controversial change in a rule that affects public safety, it must be made through the proper rule-making process, the flight attendants said in a court document.
But the Court of Appeals seemed to be siding with the FAA.
Airlines have always had discretion on how to handle this, Judge Harry T. Edwards told a lawyer for the union, according to the Associated Press. A final written ruling is expected to be released later.
Under the new FAA rules, electronic devices must be kept in "airplane mode" during takeoffs and landing. Voice calls are still forbidden on U.S. airlines.
"We are confident in our position that the FAA violated the administrative procedure act in enacting a new national policy that directly conflicts with an existing regulation", said Amanda Dure, an attorney for the 60,000-member flight attendants union.
The FAA declined to comment on the case.
2014 Los Angeles Times
Why would 60,000 odd flight attendants care? (The projectile argument doesn't stand given that my entirely legal "Steve Jobs biography" at 1.02 kgs is much more dangerous projectile than my 350g phone).
Why is 'public' comment necessary. Surely this is a technical question for the experts and not a question for John Q. Public!
Seeing as the rule has been in effect for some months, have there been any cases of injury or other problems since it came into effect?
I just don't understand the justification for this. Waste of everyone's time and money!
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First off, it can become a projectile. So can a baby in someone's lap. Bags are usually secured overhead or under seats.
But if you are so busy reading or playing a game, maybe you didn't take the time to locate your nearest exit, or how to use oxygen (do you have to pull hard enough to pull a pin or not?)
And during the moments of takeoff and landing, if you are engrossed in playboy on line and don't hear: BRACE FOR IMPACT, and you get hurt, who's fault is it?
IS flying so Blaze` that a PED is more fascinating?
But if you are so busy reading or playing a game, maybe you didn't take the time to locate your nearest exit, or how to use oxygen (do you have to pull hard enough to pull a pin or not?)
And during the moments of takeoff and landing, if you are engrossed in playboy on line and don't hear: BRACE FOR IMPACT, and you get hurt, who's fault is it?
IS flying so Blaze` that a PED is more fascinating?
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Glendalegoon, I didn't intend to open the debate about gate-to-gate device use. It's been discussed to death here. In the meantime regulators on both sides of the Atlantic, in the antipodes and elsewhere have decided there are no safety issues.
Now we see 60,000 flight attendants objecting not with evidence of safety issues but because there was no 'public comment'.
WTF? I really don't want to see safety regulation by public opinion. do you?
Now we see 60,000 flight attendants objecting not with evidence of safety issues but because there was no 'public comment'.
WTF? I really don't want to see safety regulation by public opinion. do you?
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Hey! Let's belittle flight attendants.
Originally Posted by INeedTheFull90
...most of them will be in the back galley some texting or face booking during TO/Landing.
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Originally Posted by INeedTheFull90
They'll complain about pax using them yet most of them will be in the back galley some texting or face booking during TO/Landing.
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Given that there have been several well documented examples of flight deck crews becoming distracted by talking and looking at handheld devices re future bidding on flights, seniority policies etc I think you'd have to be pretty optimistic that the guys 'n gals down the back won't do the same when the facility is available
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That may very well be, HH, but that doesn't have much to do with INeedTheFull90's claims. So, what you are offering us is a red herring.
Now, as anyone who doesn't have their pate in close proximity to their sigmoid colon will know, crews are at their assigned stations during TO and landing. Most of these are not in the "back galley" but next to the exits.
Unless you are on Full90's aircraft which apparently have an assortment of lawn chairs so most of the crew can sit in the "back galley" during TO and landing.
Now, as anyone who doesn't have their pate in close proximity to their sigmoid colon will know, crews are at their assigned stations during TO and landing. Most of these are not in the "back galley" but next to the exits.
Unless you are on Full90's aircraft which apparently have an assortment of lawn chairs so most of the crew can sit in the "back galley" during TO and landing.
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I've seen it with my own eyes. Flight attendants using PEDs (smartphones) during taxi in and taxi out. Many aircraft have rear galleys where crew are stationed. Out of view from the cabin, but NOT totally hidden. Anyone who denies that this happens does is badly mistaken. I'm not saying all crew do it, but some do. Fact.
Don't know about you lot but where I come from, doors are in the galley, crew are next to doors, therefore, in the rear galley. EZ/FR, BA 32S fleets, AA/UA (pretty much every 737 CONFIG).
Don't know about you lot but where I come from, doors are in the galley, crew are next to doors, therefore, in the rear galley. EZ/FR, BA 32S fleets, AA/UA (pretty much every 737 CONFIG).
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Ok, so you are changing your story from "most of them will be in the back galley some texting or face booking during TO/Landing" to you've seen cabin crew using ped's during taxi.
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Guys. Listen. I've been crew on two airlines. I speak from experience. I never did it, but I've seen crew do it with my own eyes when I was crew and I have seen it as a pax too. If anyone honestly think it doesn't happen then think again!
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Nobody said it didn't happen. Nobody said there aren't any exits in the aft galley.
Most of us here knows that there are exits in the aft galley. We also know that most exits aren't in the rear galley. We also know that there aren't enough seats in the rear galley for "most of them" to sit there during TO and landing, hence the lawn chair remark. We also know that "most of them" aren't "texting or face booking" during TO and landing.
You know this too, as you apparently have been cabin crew, which doesn't improve the quality of your post(s).
But at least you modified your claim, which is something I guess.
Most of us here knows that there are exits in the aft galley. We also know that most exits aren't in the rear galley. We also know that there aren't enough seats in the rear galley for "most of them" to sit there during TO and landing, hence the lawn chair remark. We also know that "most of them" aren't "texting or face booking" during TO and landing.
You know this too, as you apparently have been cabin crew, which doesn't improve the quality of your post(s).
But at least you modified your claim, which is something I guess.
Son of Slot
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Now that we got that one sorted (and thanks to INeed for clarifying) let's just consider any aspects directly pertaining to the us of Peds by PAX.
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But why?
Perhaps it's a generation thing, but can anyone explain why it is so essential for some people to be glued to one of these devices?
Going off-thread (sorry!) but how often do you see toddlers totally ignored whilst Mum is totally preoccupied with her smartphone?
Also is it more a female thing?
Going off-thread (sorry!) but how often do you see toddlers totally ignored whilst Mum is totally preoccupied with her smartphone?
Also is it more a female thing?
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What I'm interested in is the wisdom of asking for "Public Comment" on a safety issue? That's the worst possible course of action, IMHO
Son of Slot
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Indeed it has but there are new people joining PPRuNe who might not have discussed it and old timers can ignore it, so it's valid.
Equally valid, is the question that you pose.
Actually, SoS, that has been discussed to death.
Equally valid, is the question that you pose.
Depends on the device, it covers a lot more than smartphones - I'm usually on my Kindle if I'm not asleep. A lot of people have a Kndle app on their phones, so whilst it looks like they are 'onthe phone' they area ctually reading a book!
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On the flight into BRS yesterday the crew started their landing procedures 25 minutes before landing. More like 30 minutes before doors opened. Can't see any reason why I should stop reading, when the guy beside me can continue to read his 1kg hard backed book.
In any case regulators have decided this is not a safety issue. Do we really want "public opinion" to overrule the experts?
In any case regulators have decided this is not a safety issue. Do we really want "public opinion" to overrule the experts?
