Is it time for new mandatory rules for seat pitch and width on all passenger planes?
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Is it time for new mandatory rules for seat pitch and width on all passenger planes?
This article was in the NY Times today, summing up the state of commercial flying in the United States. Cramming SLF into their seats is becoming the norm.
http://www.nytimes.com/upshot/
Question is.....is this safe?
Also is it time for a new business model that makes money from a quality product, instead of this business school scheme that completely disregards passenger safety and comfort?
And finally should all passenger aircraft have minimum pitch and width requirements based on acceptable safety and comfort standards for the 21st century?
Lets start a discussion and let the bean counters know how we feel!
http://www.nytimes.com/upshot/
Question is.....is this safe?
Also is it time for a new business model that makes money from a quality product, instead of this business school scheme that completely disregards passenger safety and comfort?
And finally should all passenger aircraft have minimum pitch and width requirements based on acceptable safety and comfort standards for the 21st century?
Lets start a discussion and let the bean counters know how we feel!
Lets start a discussion and let the bean counters know how we feel!
1 write to the airline and express your feelings
2 then don't fly that airline unless they change or you manage to purchase a better seat
3 if we all act together in this in not flying these airlines they will change
4 it would take at least 15 years to get a new rule through.
meanwhile I intend to use my ability to upgrade to better seats and avoid taking a bus while the items cited above are taking hold.
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truth be told, I am an American living in Asia... so I fly Thai, Singapore etc...
which means I fly in relative comfort. But it makes my skin crawl to hear what Americans accept as service these days.
My wife and I do all we can to avoid flying United home on our leave...haha!
Any ideas on a new business model??
which means I fly in relative comfort. But it makes my skin crawl to hear what Americans accept as service these days.
My wife and I do all we can to avoid flying United home on our leave...haha!
Any ideas on a new business model??
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American Airlines used to offer more legroom in economy several years ago. They found that given the choice, people will buy a ticket at a lower price on a competing airline rather than pay a little bit more for more legroom.
You do have a choice, you can pay more for economy+, business or first.
I'm 168cm and weigh 66kg. I don't need a bigger, wider seat and I would not be happy paying more for my airfare just to satisfy larger people than I.
Edited to add. There are rules relating to the the maximum number of passenger seats on an aircraft. I don't think anyone is proposing that these rules be liberalised.
You do have a choice, you can pay more for economy+, business or first.
I'm 168cm and weigh 66kg. I don't need a bigger, wider seat and I would not be happy paying more for my airfare just to satisfy larger people than I.
Edited to add. There are rules relating to the the maximum number of passenger seats on an aircraft. I don't think anyone is proposing that these rules be liberalised.
Lets start a discussion and let the bean counters know how we feel!
Paxing All Over The World
I agree but, unfortunately:
- Human beings always want more for less money and less money always wins
- The economies of (almost) the entire Western world are in recession or teetering on the brink.
- They will remain so for at least another five years.
- They are unlikely to ever recover to the times of 1995~2007.
- Humans still want to travel like it was 1995~2007 and so are choosing to go for the cheapest seats.
- Airlines seats are a bargain for what you get.
- Most airlines are not making money and have to make further cutbacks.
- Their P.E. / Biz / First pax remain a small percentage, crucial though they are.
- Charging their economy customers more is just not viable.
- Sorry
I do my best to avoid the B777 in 10 across configuration. However I'm an airline pilot and know something about aircraft. I also avoid the first row of over wing exit seats on A320, which don't recline.
Fortunately I can afford to choose more comfortable airlines to fly on and know about web sites such as Seat Guru.
Some people care only about the price of the ticket, hence the massive growth in low cost airlines. Premium economy is being increasingly offered by more airlines to cater to those who can't pay four times the economy fare for business class but can still pay a premium for some degree of comfort.
There are options available for those who want and are prepared to pay for more room.
1. Better airline
2. Pay for exit row seat
3. Pay for Premium economy class
4. Pay for Business class
5. Pay for First class
6. Charter private jet
The lowest available economy airfares are incredible value for money, greater comfort comes at a price. You won't get The Dorchester at Premier Inn prices.
Fortunately I can afford to choose more comfortable airlines to fly on and know about web sites such as Seat Guru.
Some people care only about the price of the ticket, hence the massive growth in low cost airlines. Premium economy is being increasingly offered by more airlines to cater to those who can't pay four times the economy fare for business class but can still pay a premium for some degree of comfort.
There are options available for those who want and are prepared to pay for more room.
1. Better airline
2. Pay for exit row seat
3. Pay for Premium economy class
4. Pay for Business class
5. Pay for First class
6. Charter private jet
The lowest available economy airfares are incredible value for money, greater comfort comes at a price. You won't get The Dorchester at Premier Inn prices.
Last edited by Metro man; 30th Aug 2014 at 07:56.
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Face it, if you make things mandatory, you might as well re regulate the whole US airline industry.
And that means regulating prices for tickets.
THE PEOPLE VOTED and selected cheap. Not service, not safety, not anything but cheap.
SO, like others said: You want more room? PAY FOR FIRST CLASS. PAY FOR TWO SEATS INSTEAD OF ONE.
And quit complaining. IF YOU HAVE a medical condition like the man claiming leg pain from diabetes, PAY FOR FIRST CLASS or don't fly. There are still ships from the US to France.
Quit your complaining. YOU voted for cheap airlines and by necessity they brought DOWN the quality of all airlines.
Sad. really sad.
And that means regulating prices for tickets.
THE PEOPLE VOTED and selected cheap. Not service, not safety, not anything but cheap.
SO, like others said: You want more room? PAY FOR FIRST CLASS. PAY FOR TWO SEATS INSTEAD OF ONE.
And quit complaining. IF YOU HAVE a medical condition like the man claiming leg pain from diabetes, PAY FOR FIRST CLASS or don't fly. There are still ships from the US to France.
Quit your complaining. YOU voted for cheap airlines and by necessity they brought DOWN the quality of all airlines.
Sad. really sad.
Last edited by glendalegoon; 30th Aug 2014 at 00:45.
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If folk want to travel like cattle then let them if that's all they can afford. Nobody makes them fly with the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet etc.
I'm 193 cms tall so if I can't afford either Club or F I stay at home. I also make good use of my Avios & my BA/ Amex Premium card.
I'm 193 cms tall so if I can't afford either Club or F I stay at home. I also make good use of my Avios & my BA/ Amex Premium card.
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Not everyone in a democracy voted for their government, they still have to live with it. Same with the seat pitch. The majority voted with their wallets for the lowest possible seat pitch. Most airlines offer better seats at a premium, so it is a good idea to either pay for it, endure the cattle class if you have to, or simply don't fly.
At least in most of europe there is an excellent train system. And over here in germany in some areas going by car isn't bad either. Nothing like enjoying a convertible with the roof down at 275km/h.
At least in most of europe there is an excellent train system. And over here in germany in some areas going by car isn't bad either. Nothing like enjoying a convertible with the roof down at 275km/h.
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On a long haul, premium economy is a small markup to pay for this comfort. What is so wrong is how much premium economy features vary across airlines. Almost like a box of chocolates.
Worst - US airlines (every aspect)
Best - air France ( seat, baggage, food)
ME airline and Asian airlines - non existent
Note: above is based on wide body long haul only. I can survive a couple of daytime hours in a narrow body LCC
Worst - US airlines (every aspect)
Best - air France ( seat, baggage, food)
ME airline and Asian airlines - non existent
Note: above is based on wide body long haul only. I can survive a couple of daytime hours in a narrow body LCC
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I try to go by train or drive. Less hassle, no security, less queuing etc. I take my time, bring my own food and in a car get to choose my company. Who wants to fly?
EVA Air offer premium economy as do Cathay, Thai have it on certain routes, Singapore Airlines will have it next year.
The Middle Eastern airlines avoid it to keep the differentiation between business and economy. With the big 3 M/E carriers, economy is usually pretty decent as long as you avoid the 10 across B777. I like the QATAR B777 with 9 across seating.
Unfortunately the price difference for P/E can be considerable, an exit row seat may be better value. On SIN - LHR BA premium is a similar price to Sri Lankan business class. A daytime flight on a quality airline in an exit row seat with sector times of less than 8 hours and a nights break in between on longer routes shouldn't bother most people.
Aer Lingus allow an upgrade to the economy meal for a small supplement
The Middle Eastern airlines avoid it to keep the differentiation between business and economy. With the big 3 M/E carriers, economy is usually pretty decent as long as you avoid the 10 across B777. I like the QATAR B777 with 9 across seating.
Unfortunately the price difference for P/E can be considerable, an exit row seat may be better value. On SIN - LHR BA premium is a similar price to Sri Lankan business class. A daytime flight on a quality airline in an exit row seat with sector times of less than 8 hours and a nights break in between on longer routes shouldn't bother most people.
Aer Lingus allow an upgrade to the economy meal for a small supplement
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Help ful PE guide
It always surprises me what people think the money they spend on an air ticket is for.
Put simply it is to travel from their place of departure to their point of arrival in a well maintained and safe aircraft. They can expect to have flight deck crew trained to fly the aircraft and cabin crew trained in all the safety aspects of the cabin. They should expect any hold baggage to arrive with them at their destination.
The ticket price does not guarantee 'x' amount of personal space; only 'acceptable' passengers in the seat next to them; room in the overhead lockers for bags that should be in the hold; catering of a standard that is only found in 5 star hotels. Nor is the ticket price based on the weight/height of the passenger.
Ryanair, Southwest, easyJet, etc have introduced ways to recover the revenue they lost by pricing tickets at below the true cost of the ticket for the flight. So they have invented charging for window seats, charging for extra leg room, charging for bags carried in the hold, charging for food pre booked or sold on board, charges for priority boarding etc etc. These add on charges mean the cost of the ticket is probably going to work out the same or more expensive than if you fly on a 'with frills' airline.
Maybe one day they will fly and regulate oxygen supply via the drop down masks which you will have to pay for...................... I hope that is merely an idea from my twisted humour and doesn't become reality!!!
Put simply it is to travel from their place of departure to their point of arrival in a well maintained and safe aircraft. They can expect to have flight deck crew trained to fly the aircraft and cabin crew trained in all the safety aspects of the cabin. They should expect any hold baggage to arrive with them at their destination.
The ticket price does not guarantee 'x' amount of personal space; only 'acceptable' passengers in the seat next to them; room in the overhead lockers for bags that should be in the hold; catering of a standard that is only found in 5 star hotels. Nor is the ticket price based on the weight/height of the passenger.
Ryanair, Southwest, easyJet, etc have introduced ways to recover the revenue they lost by pricing tickets at below the true cost of the ticket for the flight. So they have invented charging for window seats, charging for extra leg room, charging for bags carried in the hold, charging for food pre booked or sold on board, charges for priority boarding etc etc. These add on charges mean the cost of the ticket is probably going to work out the same or more expensive than if you fly on a 'with frills' airline.
Maybe one day they will fly and regulate oxygen supply via the drop down masks which you will have to pay for...................... I hope that is merely an idea from my twisted humour and doesn't become reality!!!
Put simply it is to travel from their place of departure to their point of arrival in a well maintained and safe aircraft. They can expect to have flight deck crew trained to fly the aircraft and cabin crew trained in all the safety aspects of the cabin. They should expect any hold baggage to arrive with them at their destination.
