How could BA short haul improve?
Paxing All Over The World
SLF3
Y-e-e-s-s but people plan to own their car for several years, perhaps 20. Even a long haul flight is going to top out at some 22 hours of flying time.
But I agree that there is a contrast between the BA advertising - to appeal to old customers to stay - and what happens on short haul.
I have said in the forum before that BA cannot win this 21st century problem. No more than Woolworths could, or Waterstones bookshops or HMV or the thousands of other companies that have gone for a variety of reasons.
To return to the M&S comparison. In their clothing, they have to compete with every high street shop AND the online shops. With the natural falling off as their clientele ages ...?? Whereas, in their food shops, they have but a single competitor -Waitrose. From a commercial point of view, they should be quietly selling off the old biz and concentrating on the new. But the company have repelled all buy-out options and continue to sink money into 'new' ideas for the old biz. Each new CEO says that they can being them back to mainstream. I doubt it. But human nature is to keep old things going.
By contrast, BA have done incredibly well. Although it took them a long time to find a marriage partner (Iberia) they have made a very good shot at the 21st century. I have no idea how long they will last but the longevity of companies and the trajectory of their behaviour is well known and also discussed in here before.
I repeat, I have never worked in the airline biz, nor even held shares in it. Secondly, it gives me no pleasure to predict the end of BA.
BMW don't compete on price. They compete by offering a product that costs a bit more but which people are prepared to pay a premium for which more than covers the incremental cost.
But I agree that there is a contrast between the BA advertising - to appeal to old customers to stay - and what happens on short haul.
I have said in the forum before that BA cannot win this 21st century problem. No more than Woolworths could, or Waterstones bookshops or HMV or the thousands of other companies that have gone for a variety of reasons.
To return to the M&S comparison. In their clothing, they have to compete with every high street shop AND the online shops. With the natural falling off as their clientele ages ...?? Whereas, in their food shops, they have but a single competitor -Waitrose. From a commercial point of view, they should be quietly selling off the old biz and concentrating on the new. But the company have repelled all buy-out options and continue to sink money into 'new' ideas for the old biz. Each new CEO says that they can being them back to mainstream. I doubt it. But human nature is to keep old things going.
By contrast, BA have done incredibly well. Although it took them a long time to find a marriage partner (Iberia) they have made a very good shot at the 21st century. I have no idea how long they will last but the longevity of companies and the trajectory of their behaviour is well known and also discussed in here before.
I repeat, I have never worked in the airline biz, nor even held shares in it. Secondly, it gives me no pleasure to predict the end of BA.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are correct - of the major Western Airlines BA have done well - not bankrupt and not much use of taxpayers cash
but you are also correct when you say the basic business model is way out of date and there isn't much they can do about it
but you are also correct when you say the basic business model is way out of date and there isn't much they can do about it
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I repeat, I have never worked in the airline biz, nor even held shares in it. Secondly, it gives me no pleasure to predict the end of BA.
BA is getting there and how is it responding to modern age variables?
Competition, especially low cost, has played a winning game with with labour. Now BA is getting to grips with it's labour contracts and that should be a huge victory. BA has always resisted this but what you resist persists until one finds an alternative. This is how BA is repositioning itself for the 21st Century.
BA is a life time project
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 63
Posts: 1,257
Received 150 Likes
on
93 Posts
Paxboy
Interesting discussion with regards to where BA are going and the comparison with M&S - food v clothing etc / Waitrose.
To stick to your M&S / Waitrose analogy I would make the following point. Waitrose are a sub division of John Lewis as you are no doubt aware, and they do sell cloths, and everything else. However the cloths and products they sell do tend to be more high end, and with high end brands, apart from their own label stuff. Waitrose food, to a degree, is also in that same class. M&S are suffering in their clothes line because the UK public, and perhaps the world, prefers to buy a "Brand" name product with all the perceived connotation's this provides. The problem BA have is that the brand has to a degree lost the gloss it once had at that top end of the market, combined with pulling out of some markets altogether. Waitrose also has to look over its shoulder in some areas where they are moving into, as the local competition be it local supermarkets e.g. Booths in the NW, or some very good farmers shops, do give them a run for their money.
For BA it is more difficult, as going down market is not really an option as LCC have got that market taped. Their LH product suffers currently because they have a fleet of quite elderly A/C, and are based in Western Europe - great for the Americas but the world's trade to a degree moved East in the last 30 years, and they are now geographically disadvantaged in that respect. Ask a passenger if they want to go to their local airport wait 2hrs, fly for 1hr, and then wait another 2hrs+ before they leave the UK, when you can be 1/2 way to DXB and change there with perhaps one stop. Depends on individuals but time is either holiday time, or work, either of which for SLF speed is of the essence. (One of the reasons for the growth in the number of supermarkets over the last few years to continue your analogy).
I can in all honesty say I do not know what they can do given these issues, if anything the A/C fleet is the easy bit as that is only money. World trade and its direction is something completely different. Will be interested to see what Mr Walsh does, or how long he stays.
Interesting discussion with regards to where BA are going and the comparison with M&S - food v clothing etc / Waitrose.
To stick to your M&S / Waitrose analogy I would make the following point. Waitrose are a sub division of John Lewis as you are no doubt aware, and they do sell cloths, and everything else. However the cloths and products they sell do tend to be more high end, and with high end brands, apart from their own label stuff. Waitrose food, to a degree, is also in that same class. M&S are suffering in their clothes line because the UK public, and perhaps the world, prefers to buy a "Brand" name product with all the perceived connotation's this provides. The problem BA have is that the brand has to a degree lost the gloss it once had at that top end of the market, combined with pulling out of some markets altogether. Waitrose also has to look over its shoulder in some areas where they are moving into, as the local competition be it local supermarkets e.g. Booths in the NW, or some very good farmers shops, do give them a run for their money.
For BA it is more difficult, as going down market is not really an option as LCC have got that market taped. Their LH product suffers currently because they have a fleet of quite elderly A/C, and are based in Western Europe - great for the Americas but the world's trade to a degree moved East in the last 30 years, and they are now geographically disadvantaged in that respect. Ask a passenger if they want to go to their local airport wait 2hrs, fly for 1hr, and then wait another 2hrs+ before they leave the UK, when you can be 1/2 way to DXB and change there with perhaps one stop. Depends on individuals but time is either holiday time, or work, either of which for SLF speed is of the essence. (One of the reasons for the growth in the number of supermarkets over the last few years to continue your analogy).
I can in all honesty say I do not know what they can do given these issues, if anything the A/C fleet is the easy bit as that is only money. World trade and its direction is something completely different. Will be interested to see what Mr Walsh does, or how long he stays.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Competition, especially low cost, has played a winning game with with labour.
As I hinted at in a prior post... underneath that water lies the vast expanses of BA's other overheads that simply don't exist at their newly emerged competitors.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
Age: 77
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps it is worth looking back at British Railways, into the late 1950's
One could travel on the LCC 3rd class ticket......for a bit more, one could enjoy the journey in 2nd. If one was a person of substance, First class,(the Legacy standard) beckoned......NOW, they all travelled behind the same engine , on the same running gear, on the same rails, platforms and basic infrastructure.
In no way did the third class dilute the superior furnishings and service to first. Maybe BA could look at this model...Maybe, as the cattle were loaded, they should be afforded a glimpse of the fabled BA Legacy service , as advertised and promoted. But, they walk on to the cheap seats they CHOSE to buy. -Again, when you boarded the train, you had to walk enviously past the dearer offerings, if you were travelling 3 rd.
Rising affluence and , I suspect, beaurocracy finally amalgamated 3 rd into 2 nd....Who knows, perhaps the railways could reintroduce 3 rd and open up a whole new market.
ExXBsaid
But they aren't smart enough to see that! As I said, nothing wrong with offering a cheap basic no-frills service, provided the customer is made aware that better is on offer.
going back to the BMW analogy...how many base models leave the showroom? I'll vouch NONE 'cos the salesman does his job, which is to SELL - desirable but expensive high-cost extras.
I see the BA problem as being partly admin and partly sales- the smartass sales execs paint the dream, the admin are unable to furnish it.....giving a punter the runaround is a sure way to lose their business.
Re- Marks and Sparks...they used to sell only British-made, high quality clothing....unfortunately, they omitted to teach either their shop-floor staff or up-and -coming young customers just why their stuff was of superior manufacture.
Stunned a "sales assistant" who tried to sell me a "very nice " suit for a lady...showed her...skirt not lined, raw seams, neither overlocked nor Pinked.......cheap tat at an inflated price. I explained that, no, I hadn't been in the "rag trade" but my money came through hard work and I was determined to spend it wisely, therefore I researched what I intended to purchase, so I was fore armed......bit like buying a travel ticket, really!
One could travel on the LCC 3rd class ticket......for a bit more, one could enjoy the journey in 2nd. If one was a person of substance, First class,(the Legacy standard) beckoned......NOW, they all travelled behind the same engine , on the same running gear, on the same rails, platforms and basic infrastructure.
In no way did the third class dilute the superior furnishings and service to first. Maybe BA could look at this model...Maybe, as the cattle were loaded, they should be afforded a glimpse of the fabled BA Legacy service , as advertised and promoted. But, they walk on to the cheap seats they CHOSE to buy. -Again, when you boarded the train, you had to walk enviously past the dearer offerings, if you were travelling 3 rd.
Rising affluence and , I suspect, beaurocracy finally amalgamated 3 rd into 2 nd....Who knows, perhaps the railways could reintroduce 3 rd and open up a whole new market.
ExXBsaid
If BA were smart they would give all of their connecting passengers the short-haul business class regardless if they were travelling business/first on the long-haul. So they have to move the curtain back a dozen or so rows, big deal.
going back to the BMW analogy...how many base models leave the showroom? I'll vouch NONE 'cos the salesman does his job, which is to SELL - desirable but expensive high-cost extras.
I see the BA problem as being partly admin and partly sales- the smartass sales execs paint the dream, the admin are unable to furnish it.....giving a punter the runaround is a sure way to lose their business.
Re- Marks and Sparks...they used to sell only British-made, high quality clothing....unfortunately, they omitted to teach either their shop-floor staff or up-and -coming young customers just why their stuff was of superior manufacture.
Stunned a "sales assistant" who tried to sell me a "very nice " suit for a lady...showed her...skirt not lined, raw seams, neither overlocked nor Pinked.......cheap tat at an inflated price. I explained that, no, I hadn't been in the "rag trade" but my money came through hard work and I was determined to spend it wisely, therefore I researched what I intended to purchase, so I was fore armed......bit like buying a travel ticket, really!
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are things really that bad with BA short-haul?
LCY is arguably a good example of BA being able to see off a competitor when it has the right aircraft and the right cost base to compete.
LGW, after more than ten years of having a question mark hanging over it, is finally expanding in short-haul. The Boeing 737s are being replaced and new longer-range destinations are expected when more Airbus aircraft come online.
As for LHR, it's had plenty of growth in recent years, partly through organic growth and bmi, both in business and seasonal leisure routes.
The Reward Flight Savers are good value Avios redemptions for Executive Club members. As are the last minute weekend/daytrip fares. Executive Club cardholders get a decent package of benefits. Club Europe is probably one of the more accessible short-haul business class packages. I also find the service levels generally very high - certainly much more consistent than on long-haul.
Certainly things could be improved, like clearly marking the overhead bins in Club Europe for business class passengers and replacing the cold meat plate on mid-morning flights and the Afternoon Tea.
The one area BA is going to have to bit the bullet on is catering in EuroTraveller. Either improve it, or introduce buy on board catering.
LCY is arguably a good example of BA being able to see off a competitor when it has the right aircraft and the right cost base to compete.
LGW, after more than ten years of having a question mark hanging over it, is finally expanding in short-haul. The Boeing 737s are being replaced and new longer-range destinations are expected when more Airbus aircraft come online.
As for LHR, it's had plenty of growth in recent years, partly through organic growth and bmi, both in business and seasonal leisure routes.
The Reward Flight Savers are good value Avios redemptions for Executive Club members. As are the last minute weekend/daytrip fares. Executive Club cardholders get a decent package of benefits. Club Europe is probably one of the more accessible short-haul business class packages. I also find the service levels generally very high - certainly much more consistent than on long-haul.
Certainly things could be improved, like clearly marking the overhead bins in Club Europe for business class passengers and replacing the cold meat plate on mid-morning flights and the Afternoon Tea.
The one area BA is going to have to bit the bullet on is catering in EuroTraveller. Either improve it, or introduce buy on board catering.
The BMW analogy isn't particularly appropriate. The fact is that short haul air travel, in most respects, has become a commodity. In the same way as sugar. You may get a glossy repackaged Tesco finest, the home brand or Tesco Value but by and large.....it's the same bloody thing. As a result people aren't willing to pay much extra. The airline industry is becoming that.
Air travel has become the way to a means. We do have to accept that I think.
Air travel has become the way to a means. We do have to accept that I think.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the same way as sugar. You may get a glossy repackaged Tesco finest, the home brand or Tesco Value but by and large.....it's the same bloody thing. As a result people aren't willing to pay much extra. The airline industry is becoming that.
That's a very interesting observation which responds to the question of how much is the optimum in time that it would demand transiting DXB.
If I spend 90 seconds in a Tesco queue at checkouts, satisfaction dents. However, had I spent 60 seconds or less in the same queue I would exit Tesco a satisfied customer. So even if I checked out in 20 seconds my satisfaction wouldn't be any different. That's why I agree with you easyfly83.
What's the average times of connecting from DXB and LHR, Mr Mac? London is a top destination and so it can only be right if BA made the very best use of it.
Last edited by kirungi1; 15th Jul 2014 at 18:55.
Thread Starter
Both A BMW 323 and a Ford Focus have four wheels and seats. But they are differentiated.
32" seat spacing in an A320 and 28" seat spacing in a 737 could be differentiated as well.
But all I see is BA going down (reduced seat spacing, cheap seats, chocolate free biscuits) and the likes of Easy coming up (flexible tickets, pre-allocated.
Depressing that no one really sees a future for them. The long haul economy will go to Locos. Premium traffic eastbound has gone already to the likes of SQ, Etihad, Emirates. That just leaves the pond...
32" seat spacing in an A320 and 28" seat spacing in a 737 could be differentiated as well.
But all I see is BA going down (reduced seat spacing, cheap seats, chocolate free biscuits) and the likes of Easy coming up (flexible tickets, pre-allocated.
Depressing that no one really sees a future for them. The long haul economy will go to Locos. Premium traffic eastbound has gone already to the likes of SQ, Etihad, Emirates. That just leaves the pond...
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF3
In a Repeat business model, there is little satisfaction born out of seat spacing and BA has researched this fact. Prior to 9/11, American Airlines in an effort to boast it's customer satisfaction did something similar except it was same seat spacing through. It didn't take AA that long to make a U-turn.
Some Low cost models like SouthWest et la have thrived on just a simple basic of the basics principle in the aviation business; delivering the customer with their baggage on time consistently.
BA was the world's premium airline because it consistently did what I've described above. I'm sure it can still deliver on that promise after organising her fleet & labour contracts.
In a Repeat business model, there is little satisfaction born out of seat spacing and BA has researched this fact. Prior to 9/11, American Airlines in an effort to boast it's customer satisfaction did something similar except it was same seat spacing through. It didn't take AA that long to make a U-turn.
Some Low cost models like SouthWest et la have thrived on just a simple basic of the basics principle in the aviation business; delivering the customer with their baggage on time consistently.
BA was the world's premium airline because it consistently did what I've described above. I'm sure it can still deliver on that promise after organising her fleet & labour contracts.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 63
Posts: 1,257
Received 150 Likes
on
93 Posts
Kirungi 1
Most of my connections through DXB are 2- 2.5hrs depending onward connection, and are usually early morning. By the time you have got into terminal from A/C depending on stand, and into lounge you may have 1 hr to kill. If I have to pick up duty free I can waste some of that time mooching about or work on lap top.
Most of my connections through DXB are 2- 2.5hrs depending onward connection, and are usually early morning. By the time you have got into terminal from A/C depending on stand, and into lounge you may have 1 hr to kill. If I have to pick up duty free I can waste some of that time mooching about or work on lap top.
A fascinating debate about an interesting question.
Like others, I would like to put the question in context. Aviation has, historically, world wide, grown by 6% per annum. It has "shocks" in its market place, as do all big sectors. (Think 9/11).
Boeing predict that it will continue growing at 5% per annum for the foreseeable future. There will be more "shocks".
However, future growth will be far higher in inter-Asia travel, and intra-China travel.
The growth in the recent past which BA have had to "manage" is interesting. The Ezy's and Ryans have not actually crippled BA. They crippled the Charter sector.Anyone remember charter airlines - the ones that used to grab all the growth?
So BA have to manage low/moderate growth, in a climate where consumers look at Price as the first, second and third issues when they book a seat.
All airlines are good at safety, so safety is not a competitive differentiator.
The "Brand" does not deliver its promise, unlike, say, Dulux or Farrow and Bull - so that won't help you.
So what is BA? So what should BA do? And, going back to the question, what should it do about short haul?
(Remember that BA is a very large pension scheme with a small listed Co attached to it. That small listed Co still gives free First Class travel to Directors and many of its staff)
Well I have to say that no organisation is capable of defining a new business strategy that would require another form of organisation to carry it out. If that is true, BA is condemned to a slow painful demise.
As mixture says, BA is a big old bureaucracy. If you were starting a lean, mean, competitive organisation to-day, you would not start with BA. Take a look at their offices and overheads, and compare them with Ezy's.
Walsh won't make the required changes - he's had his time and lost the energy required.
If I were running BA I would allow the old BA to die, and set up in a different Co a completely new Co that the old BA's managers and TUs would not be allowed to influence - nothing. De nada.
Grow that completely new Co entirely independantly from old BA - using facilities far removed from Waterside, and route by route kill off the old business. And the new business should also be promoting Boris Island and lobbying to kill off Thiefrow.
As to the short - haul, let it die except where it makes serious money. Do they need to waste those slots on Prague????
Like others, I would like to put the question in context. Aviation has, historically, world wide, grown by 6% per annum. It has "shocks" in its market place, as do all big sectors. (Think 9/11).
Boeing predict that it will continue growing at 5% per annum for the foreseeable future. There will be more "shocks".
However, future growth will be far higher in inter-Asia travel, and intra-China travel.
The growth in the recent past which BA have had to "manage" is interesting. The Ezy's and Ryans have not actually crippled BA. They crippled the Charter sector.Anyone remember charter airlines - the ones that used to grab all the growth?
So BA have to manage low/moderate growth, in a climate where consumers look at Price as the first, second and third issues when they book a seat.
All airlines are good at safety, so safety is not a competitive differentiator.
The "Brand" does not deliver its promise, unlike, say, Dulux or Farrow and Bull - so that won't help you.
So what is BA? So what should BA do? And, going back to the question, what should it do about short haul?
(Remember that BA is a very large pension scheme with a small listed Co attached to it. That small listed Co still gives free First Class travel to Directors and many of its staff)
Well I have to say that no organisation is capable of defining a new business strategy that would require another form of organisation to carry it out. If that is true, BA is condemned to a slow painful demise.
As mixture says, BA is a big old bureaucracy. If you were starting a lean, mean, competitive organisation to-day, you would not start with BA. Take a look at their offices and overheads, and compare them with Ezy's.
Walsh won't make the required changes - he's had his time and lost the energy required.
If I were running BA I would allow the old BA to die, and set up in a different Co a completely new Co that the old BA's managers and TUs would not be allowed to influence - nothing. De nada.
Grow that completely new Co entirely independantly from old BA - using facilities far removed from Waterside, and route by route kill off the old business. And the new business should also be promoting Boris Island and lobbying to kill off Thiefrow.
As to the short - haul, let it die except where it makes serious money. Do they need to waste those slots on Prague????
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ancient Observer
This is a great observation, as a matter of fact, new customers have preferred aviation than railways et la in the recent past thanks to low cost carriers.
My response to the final third of #33 above. With all your personal power - will, imagination and self awareness - I sowed a good seed in a field but an enermy came and sowed darnel all among the wheat. When the new wheat spouted and ripened the darnel appeared as well, when & how would I have to weed out the darnel?
In your own words, "So what is BA? So what should BA do? And, going back to the question, what should it do about short haul? "
BA has realised how infected the wheat is. Do you risk weeding when the wheat is young - you might uproot the wheat together with the darnel as darnel is false wheat and besides it might affect the roots of the good wheat.
BA has the will and self awareness and look at it's position with the TUs and labour contracts. I have to admit BA did mistakes in the past and will in the future, who doesn't?
So, IMHO time will tell. These variables in aviation are there for all the operators except they knock when you least expect them and it's my firm belief that BA will triumph.
The growth in the recent past which BA have had to "manage" is interesting. The Ezy's and Ryans have not actually crippled BA. They crippled the Charter sector.Anyone remember charter airlines - the ones that used to grab all the growth?
My response to the final third of #33 above. With all your personal power - will, imagination and self awareness - I sowed a good seed in a field but an enermy came and sowed darnel all among the wheat. When the new wheat spouted and ripened the darnel appeared as well, when & how would I have to weed out the darnel?
In your own words, "So what is BA? So what should BA do? And, going back to the question, what should it do about short haul? "
BA has realised how infected the wheat is. Do you risk weeding when the wheat is young - you might uproot the wheat together with the darnel as darnel is false wheat and besides it might affect the roots of the good wheat.
BA has the will and self awareness and look at it's position with the TUs and labour contracts. I have to admit BA did mistakes in the past and will in the future, who doesn't?
So, IMHO time will tell. These variables in aviation are there for all the operators except they knock when you least expect them and it's my firm belief that BA will triumph.
Last edited by kirungi1; 16th Jul 2014 at 07:31.
Paxing All Over The World
An interesting discussion. The various analogies (including my own of M&S) all fall somewhat short because BA is in a very particular 'corner'.
One other factor we have not yet mentioned is the regulatory hand that can ease forward or hold back. But, that is all part of the difference that flying is your life in their metal. The BMW is being owned and driven by you. If something goes wrong with your M&S suit, you are already on the ground. YET people still want to pay less and less and expect more. That is human nature and is unmovable.
The combination of factors stacking against ALL the European legacy carriers are going to claim more victims than they already have. To recap briefly:
One other factor we have not yet mentioned is the regulatory hand that can ease forward or hold back. But, that is all part of the difference that flying is your life in their metal. The BMW is being owned and driven by you. If something goes wrong with your M&S suit, you are already on the ground. YET people still want to pay less and less and expect more. That is human nature and is unmovable.
The combination of factors stacking against ALL the European legacy carriers are going to claim more victims than they already have. To recap briefly:
- Money. Not just the LCCs but in everything we purchase.
- Movement of commercial weight from USA to Middle and Far East.
- Regulation: Removal of privileged pricing and barriers to new entrants.
- Internet: information and range of choice never imagined.
- Historic contracts for labour, premises and access to runways that are also being affected by the above points.
"So, IMHO time will tell"
If they leave it to either "time" or their existing Board and management, they will just die a slow death, as will all the other European legacy airlines.
BA's case is marginally worse than other Europeans due to the Pension fund.
As I said, it is a very large pension fund with a small listed Co to fund it.
Short haul should be divested pdq, but not by or to the current management team.
If they leave it to either "time" or their existing Board and management, they will just die a slow death, as will all the other European legacy airlines.
BA's case is marginally worse than other Europeans due to the Pension fund.
As I said, it is a very large pension fund with a small listed Co to fund it.
Short haul should be divested pdq, but not by or to the current management team.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East sussex
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have flown from Malaga to Gatwick with BA on a number of times. Mostly the evening flights back to LGW. On most occasions the departure has been between 1-2 hours late.
Recently, the BBC (red button now defunct) one could access flight arrivals to most UK airports. BA arrival times to LGW from Malaga were appalling. Compared to the Orange one. It's a 50/50 situation, sitting like a sardine in a can or more leg room (319)
Recently, the BBC (red button now defunct) one could access flight arrivals to most UK airports. BA arrival times to LGW from Malaga were appalling. Compared to the Orange one. It's a 50/50 situation, sitting like a sardine in a can or more leg room (319)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA will not, and should not, dispose of short-haul. The old BOAC model has been looked at before and short-haul is vital for feeding long-haul and BA claims there is an optimum balance of about 1/3rd long-haul and 2/3rd short-haul at LHR.
When BA was really going through the wringer a few years ago, I'd actually credit management with not going for drastic/panic measures like divesting parts of the airline.
And don't forget, IAG has the LCC market already covered through its subsidiary Vueling.
Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic about BA's future. Its prospects are certainly greater than the other European legacy carriers, not least because its O&D market in London is so big.
Lufthansa's track record is very patchy (see the disaster with bmi and failed ventures like LH Italia) and AF-KLM seems culturally incapable of getting to grips with major structural problems.
And arguably, the real story in UK aviation is the wildly divergent financial performance of BA and Virgin Atlantic. BA is forecast to make an operating profit of over £1bn this year whereas Virgin expects to be at about break even.
Finally, the "pension fund with wings" moniker was true about five years ago but there's been a lot of progress in bringing the deficit down.
When BA was really going through the wringer a few years ago, I'd actually credit management with not going for drastic/panic measures like divesting parts of the airline.
And don't forget, IAG has the LCC market already covered through its subsidiary Vueling.
Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic about BA's future. Its prospects are certainly greater than the other European legacy carriers, not least because its O&D market in London is so big.
Lufthansa's track record is very patchy (see the disaster with bmi and failed ventures like LH Italia) and AF-KLM seems culturally incapable of getting to grips with major structural problems.
And arguably, the real story in UK aviation is the wildly divergent financial performance of BA and Virgin Atlantic. BA is forecast to make an operating profit of over £1bn this year whereas Virgin expects to be at about break even.
Finally, the "pension fund with wings" moniker was true about five years ago but there's been a lot of progress in bringing the deficit down.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 68
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Connecting passengers are vital to BA's long-haul success. If they abandoned short-haul they would lose at least 28 million passengers connecting to their long-haul services. They couldn't have to lose a large number of flights and destinations.
Some interesting 2008 data from the CAA on connecting passengers, is available here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/Connecti...K_Airports.pdf
Nothing more recent appears to be available there, but their search engine is a joke. Searching for the exact title failed to turn up the document! (or at least not on the first 10 pages)
Some interesting 2008 data from the CAA on connecting passengers, is available here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/Connecti...K_Airports.pdf
Nothing more recent appears to be available there, but their search engine is a joke. Searching for the exact title failed to turn up the document! (or at least not on the first 10 pages)