hval

I was thinking about the number of carry on bags I have for different airlines. Where possible I travel with carry on baggage only.

I decided to create a spreadsheet of sizes and weights for a number of airlines. The data is current as of Wednesday 18th April 2012. There are 67 sets of data. Where available I have included data for each class.

All I can say is what a wide variation in allowed weights, sizes of bags and number of bags. How on Earth can anyone who travels often not have a minimum of about eight bags.

To summarise: -

Length (Cm) Width (Cm) Depth (Cm) Max. Weight (Kg)
Max 61 53 30 24
Min 40 25 18 5
Mean 54.8 38.3 23.0 11.2

I feel that airlines and aircraft manufacturers really should get together and come to a decision (e.g. small aircraft = size A; medium aircraft = Size B; Large Aircraft = Size C). I do realise that I generalise, but is there any reason for airlines with the same aircraft having different locker sizes?

Hotel Tango

Totally agree about this. However, I think it should be one size & weight for all a/c as many pax (even regulars) wouldn't know what type they're going to fly on anyway. There's also the change of gauge on multi sector routes to consider.

Jarvy

Its easy really, only allow a lap top bag in the cabin. Everything else check in.
Its becoming silly over here as people seem to get away with taking anything of any size in the cabin.
Head down waiting for incoming!

jabird

They are doing so because it has become so expensive to shove these bags in the hold.

Well if you want to keep it simple, you could just stick to flying Ryanair. One bag, no appendages, stuff in your duty free, no exceptions.

One fleet too, most of Europe covered and now including some "proper" airports too.

Edit: Mr O'Leary did not pay me €10 to write this reply.

[ducks for cover]

Metro man

Last time I flew BA they had a 23 kg allowance on hand luggage, size limits also applied.

British Airways - Hand baggage

Obviously cheaper for them to have passengers carry as much as possible in the cabin rather than have to pay for the cost of getting baggage from the check in counter at departure through to the baggage belt on arrival.

Avoids lost luggage and the passengers get out of the airport quicker.

PAXboy

jabirdUummmm, I don't think so!!! As I understand it, the first surge in cabin baggage was when Hub-and-Spoke operations really got going. Since so many pax found that their bags did not make the connection - they started taking them in the cabin.

This beahviour then spread because the carriers did not stop people doing it for very sound commercial reasons. This very quickly became the 'SOP' of all pax to be able to take more weight than allowed.

Then the LCCs came along with new rules and capitalised on existing behaviour. Some wanting pax to check in the bags and others wanting them to not check in bags.

I know, I'm old and been paxing for too long. All those wasted weeks of my life watching pax in airports and aircraft ...

ExXB

In the good old days IATA had a standard for carry-on baggage. The vast majority of airlines, IATA or not, applied these standards because ... well it was a standard. However the competition authorities (led by DG-COMP in Brussels) saw this as being anti-competitive, the theory being the standard would prevent airlines who wanted to give a higher allowance from doing so.

So IATA no longer sets a standard and you've got an unholy mess, but you do have competition.

Same for hold baggage the 20kg (or 2 pieces imposed by the US government in its markets) standard has gone the way of the 'Spruce Goose'.

In some case the alliances have limited immunity to discuss these matters but that is market limited. e.g. LH/UA or BA/AA or DL/AF could talk about a common standard to apply to connecting flights between alliance members between the US and Europe. However their immunity does not extend to connecting passengers travelling between Canada or Mexico or etc. to Europe. Applying a jointly agreed standard could be considered to be anti-competitive (and it would be) by the Canadian, Mexican, etc. authorities. So how do you apply a standard that only applies to local passengers and not to (some) connecting passengers?

Keeps the lawyers rich.

In this competitive market it would be nice if an airline applied the same rules to flights to and from the same point. Case in hand from Bristol EZY allows 1 piece only (their standard rule) plus one standard duty-free bag. From Geneva to Bristol it's one piece only, no exception for duty-free. At check-in in Geneva lots of arguments (I was allowed 2 when I flew in) and repacking (Fed up Swissport people told to enforce the rule allowing no exceptions)

hval

The reasons I travel with carry on baggage only are: -

a) have had baggage go missing

b) have had baggage damaged

c) have had baggage opened and items removed

d) Have no desire to hang around a carousel for a long wait

e) is easier to get around

f) don't get hassled by porters at Jo'burg

I do not carry one of those extra large bags that some other people do. I always attempt to ensure I have the correct sized bag, or something smaller. My most used item is a snugpak 25 litre rucsac with no side pockets.

Jarvy

Ok then, lastest figures for one airline over here are that 99% of hold baggage arives with the passenger. All have suffered some damage its the nature of the beast I'm afraid.
The last few times I have flown my luggage has been going round on the corousel before me.
Never in 30 years of airline travel have I had my luggage opened or anything gone missing.
But I have been delayed by a passenger breaking an overhead locker whist trying to fit his families over sized bags in, delayed for 45 minutes. Have seen half way through loading a flight the cabin staff having to stop people bringing anything bigger than a laptop bag due to too much hand luggage.
Have also seen cabin crew putting passengers luggage in the lockers at the back of a single aisle aircraft, this really helps with the unloading!
Rant over, can I have my medication now!!!!

hval

Jarvy,

Your statistics may well be correct. unfortunately, as I have a tendency to go to some slightly unusual places it does happen more often than one might expect. Either that or me and fellow colleagues are extremely unlucky. I remember one time in Angola for instance... Well, that is where we were going. Baggage for two of the team ended up in the USA. They had to survive six weeks in what that had for carry on baggage.

I agree totally with your rant about oversized bags. It makes it extremely difficult for those of us who do travel with correctly sized bags to get our kit in to overhead lockers. I have seen me have my bag tested for size, yet some other passenger on the same flight get on board with a bag which was as large as a case that should have gone in the hold.

Weight wise I will nearly always be within allowed weight, or will be close to it (i.e. less than 0.5 kg over); it depends upon the airlines scales. I am often asked to put my rucsack on the scales to ensure it is within limits.

PAXboy

Jarvy's experience is similar tomy own and any delayed bags have caught up with me. I think this thread demonstrates clearly that the Pax have 'won' (more in the cabin) which means other pax have lost!

Competition is neither neat nor standard! The chances of a new standard baggage size/weight/pieces is Zero.

riverrock83

Well it sounds like you are very lucky then, or Europe is just really bad.

I don't fly as much as I used to. However, my current record is a 1 in 3 chance of having no issues through Heathrow Airport - either a delay or my bag not making the flight.

I used to commute each week to Maastrict, Holland (KLM going Glasgow - Schipol - Maastrict) and I used to chase my bag around Europe. By the time it was time to go back to Holland again, my bag would just be getting to Glasgow, so the airline had to send it back to Holland... I stopped taking hold baggage after my bag didn't make the connection 3 weekends running. If everything ran ontime the connection time wasn't bad, but any delays and I could run faster than my bag through Schipol airport...

I now always travel with enough in my hand luggage to last me a couple of days at my destination.

Jarvy

I've only lived in the US for 3 1/2 years so have travelled in Europe.
I just wish the airlines would be clear and actually measure cabin baggage.
A standard would be good and the better your cabin the more you should be allowed.
Mrs J used to commute to Germany weekly for over a year and her luggage was delayed once, not a bad record.She was given an over night kit and her bag arrived early the next morning by courier.
I pay $25 to check my case but I know that when I book a cheap ticket, thats why its cheap.

hval

I was trying to put all my data here, but am unable to create a table with BBCode.

I thought it would be interesting for all to view and to comment. What I have done is to paste the data in CSV format. If you copy the data below, paste it in to a text file document and then save as a CSV file you should then be able to import it in to a spreadsheet.

I notice I have missed off many airlines I should have included. I do apologise for this. I shall add some of these if/ when I am able to. I shall make a note if and when I do update the data below.

Current data is REV A as of 2012/04/19/20:58. SAS, Norwegian and Swiss data added


Airline,Class Flown,Length (Cm),Width (Cm),Depth (Cm),Max. Weight (Kg),Max. Total Length (Cm),No. Of Carry on Items/
RAF (BZN) - Operational,,60,53,25,9,,One bag only. On a tristar all bags handed in. On operational flights allowed ECBA and Helmet will be placed under the seat
BA,N/A,56,45,25,23,,one piece of hand baggage plus a laptop*or*handbag. Your laptop or handbag is up to the dimensions 45cm x 36cm x 20cm
KLM,Economy,55,35,25,12,,
KLM,Business,55,35,25,18,,"and one bag smaller than 45 x 20 x 35 cm. Your hand baggage, including accessories, may not exceed 18 kg"
FLY Be,N/A,50,35,23,10,,
Loganair,N/A,40,35,18,6,,
Thompson,N/A,55,40,20,5,,
Thomas Cook,N/A,55,40,20,5,,1 item only
Lufthansa,N/A,55,40,20,8,,First and Business Class you may take two pieces of hand luggage and their contents on board with you. Economy Class passengers are only permitted one piece of hand luggage.
Cathay,First Class,56,36,23,15,,"you may carry onboard one of the following items free of charge: small handbag, small backpack, small briefcase, laptop bag"
Cathay,Business Class,56,36,23,10,,"you may carry onboard one of the following items free of charge: small handbag, small backpack, small briefcase, laptop bag"
Cathay,Premium Economy,56,36,23,7,,"you may carry onboard one of the following items free of charge: small handbag, small backpack, small briefcase, laptop bag"
Cathay,Economy,56,36,23,7,,"you may carry onboard one of the following items free of charge: small handbag, small backpack, small briefcase, laptop bag"
Air Transat,Economy,51,40,23,5,,
Air Transat,Club Economy,51,40,23,15,,
SAA,Business,52,40,23,16kg . 8kg each,,Two items
SAA,Economy,52,40,23,8,,One item
American Airlines,,56,36,23,?,114,One item plus one personal item
Continental,,N/A,N/A,N/A,,114,"can also carry one personal item, such as a briefcase, small laptop or handbag.*"
Easy jet,,56,45,25,Within Reason,,One Item
Ryan Air,,55,40,20,10,,One item
Monarch,,56,45,25,10,,One item
Iberia,,56,35,23,Not Stated,114,One item plus one personal item
Kenyan,,55,38,20,10,,One item plus one personal item
Delta,,56,36,23,Not Stated,115,One item plus one personal item
Air France (Intercontinental),Economy,55,35,25,12,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.)"
Air France (Intercontinental),Premium Economy,55,35,25,18,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.) plus 1 small baggage item that respects the following maximum dimensions:
45 cm (l) x 20 cm (w) x 35 cm (h)"
Air France (Intercontinental),Business Class,55,35,25,18,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.) plus 1 small baggage item that respects the following maximum dimensions:
45 cm (l) x 20 cm (w) x 35 cm (h)"
Air France (Intercontinental),First Class,55,35,25,18,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.) plus 1 small baggage item that respects the following maximum dimensions:
45 cm (l) x 20 cm (w) x 35 cm (h)"
Air France (Europe),Economy,55,35,25,12,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.)"
Air France (Europe),Premium Economy,55,35,25,12,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.)"
Air France (Europe),Business,55,35,25,18,,"One bag plus 1 accessory (handbag, notebook computer, camera, etc.) plus 1 small baggage item that respects the following maximum dimensions:
45 cm (l) x 20 cm (w) x 35 cm (h)"
Virgin Atlantic,N/A,56,36,23,6,,One item only
Virgin Holidays,Premium Economy/ Economy,56,36,23,6,,"One piece plus A handbag or purse, an overcoat, an umbrella (pointed or/and sharp prohibited) or walking stick, a small camera, reading matter for the flight, infants food for consumption in flight, a small amount of duty free goods."
Virgin Holidays ,Upper Class,56,36,23,16 kg. No bag to way more than 12 kg,,"Two Pieces, plus a handbag or purse, an overcoat, an umbrella (pointed or/and sharp prohibited) or walking stick, a small camera, reading matter for the flight, infants food for consumption in flight, a small amount of duty free goods."
Air Canada,N/A,55,40,23,10,,One bag plus one personal article of a maximum size 43 cm x 33 cm x 16 cm
Aer Lingus,N/A,55,40,20,10,,"Additional small items (camera, personal stereo, overcoat, handbag or laptop) are allowed."
Aer Lingus (Regional),N/A,48,36,21,7,,One Item
American Airlines,N/A,56,35,23,,,"one small carry-on bag plus one personal item per passenger as long as the carry-on bag fits comfortably in the sizer without being forced and does not exceed overall dimensions of 45 inches (length + width + height). Personal item - includes: purse, briefcase, laptop bag OR a similar item such as a tote that does not exceed 114 CM ( length+width+height) and must fit under the seat in front of you."
JetBlue,N/A,61,43,25,,,"one carry-on bag plus one personal item, such as a purse, briefcase or laptop computer. At least one of the items should be stowed under the seat in front of you.
"
US Airways,N/A,56,36,23,18,,"one carry-on bag and one personal item. Personal items include a purse, briefcase or laptop bag."
United Airlines,N/A,56,35,23,,,one bag plus one personal item
Southwest Airlines,N/A,61,40.6,25,,,"one bag plus one small, personal item. Personal-type items include purses, briefcases, cameras, food containers, or laptops "
Delta Airlines,N/A,56,36,23,,,one bag and one personal item
Frontier,N/A,61,39,24,15.8,,one carry-on bag and one personal item which fits underneath the seat
Alaska,N/A,61,43,25,,,One bag plus one personal item
Etihad,Diamond First Class,60,35,20,12,,Two bags. Total maximum weight of 12kg
Etihad,Pearl Business Class,60,35,20,12,,Two bags. Total maximum weight of 12kg
Etihad,Coral Economy Class,60,35,20,7,,One bag
Middle Eastern Airlines,N/A,40,25,25,10,,"One bag. On all international flights the following objects may be taken free of charge as additional hand baggage: 1 coat or wrap, 1 handbag, 1 umbrella or walking stick, 1wheelchair ,a pair of crutches ,1small camera, 1 pair of binoculars, "
El Al,Economy Class,56,45,25,8,,One bag
El Al,Business Class,56,45,25,20,,You are entitled to two pieces of hand luggage weighing a total of 20 kg – one piece of hand luggage weighing up to 16 kg and another weighing up to 4 kg for a portable computer or attaché case
El Al,First Class,56,45,25,24,,You are entitled to two pieces of hand luggage weighing a total of 24 kg – one piece of hand luggage weighing up to 16 kg and another weighing up to 8 kg
Emirates,First & Business Class,55,38,20,12,,two pieces of carry-on baggage: one briefcase plus either one handbag or one garment bag. The briefcase may not exceed 45 x 35 x 20 cm; the handbag may not exceed 55 x 38 x 20 cm; the garment bag can be no more than 20 cm thick when folded. The total combined weight of both pieces may not be more than 12 kg.
Emirates,Economy Class,55,38,20,7,,One bag
Gulf Air,Falcon Gold,55,40,30,9,,One bag plus one briefcase - 45 x 40 x 30 cm. Total weight is 9kg
Gulf Air,Economy Class,45,40,30,6,,One bag
Kuwait Airways,N/A,56,36,23,7,,One bag
Oman Air,N/A,51,41,23,7,,One bag
Royal Jordanian,Crown Class,51,41,23,14,,Two bags (7 kg each) plus one small item
Royal Jordanian,Economy Class,51,41,23,7,,One bag plus one small item
Royal Brunei Airlines,Business Class,55,38,20,12,,One bag plus one briefcase (55 x 38 x 20 cms). Weight of each bag must not exceed 7kg
Royal Brunei Airlines,Economy Class,55,38,20,7,,One bag Plus duty free purchases in reasonable quantities
Singapore Airlines,Suites,55,40,20,14,,"Two bags, 7kg each"
Singapore Airlines,First Class,55,40,20,14,,"Two bags, 7kg each"
Singapore Airlines,Business Class,55,40,20,14,,"Two bags, 7kg each"
Singapore Airlines,Economy Class,55,40,20,7,,One bag
SAS,Business & Economy Extra,55,40,23,16,,"Two pieces of cabin baggage to/from Asia and US, including connecting flights*(if the aircraft type admits it). One*piece per passenger on all other routes. Each bag to weigh a maximum of 8kg."
SAS,Economy,55,40,23,8,,One bag
Norwegian,,55,40,23,10,,"one item of hand baggage per person in addition to one small personal item, e.g., a small laptop or small handbag. When travelling to/from Dubai, your hand baggage*must not exceed 8kg in total weight"
Swiss,First,55,40,23,16,,2 bags. 8kg each
Swiss,Business,55,40,23,16,,2 bags. 8 kg each
Swiss,Economy,55,40,23,8,,1 bag
,Max,61,53,30,24,,
,Min,40,25,18,5,,
,Mean,54.8,38.4,23.0,11.2,,

PAXboy

Bingo! thanks hval, that imported easily. Very neat and valuable.

ATNotts

The whole issue of the amount of baggage SLF are permitted to bring into the cabin is becoming ludicrous.

Before Christmas 2011 I had the misfortune to be flying on a Swiss RJ100 from Nürnberg to Zürich on a Saturday morning. It was a full load, and the shear quantity of baggage that was being brought on to the aircraft, which not only filled the (totally inadequate) bins on the RJ, but also wound up be stowed between the seats, was such that in the event of an emergency I cannot honestly see how half the passengers could have escaped within the prescribed time. The crew did their best to try and separate passengers from their beloved bags, so they could be stowed mosre sensibly, but i'm afraid to little avail!

Is it going to take a fatal accident requiring evacuation before the authorities act to limit properly the amount of nonsense being allowed in the cabins of aircraft?

slip and turn

When I was in Tallinn a few months ago, the duty free was openly promoting the sale of cases of beer for carrying on.

Even Ryanair are not immune - I hear some Spanish airports force them to accept duty free purchases in addition to the Ryanair 10kg one cabin bag's your lot else pay us an extra €50 allowance.

PAXboy

I agree, ATNotts, that the cabin storage of the 146 is small (largely due to the high wing deisgn) but it was designed in the early 1980s and production started in 1983. Of course, there were later developments but the basic design is naturally unchanged.

My guess is that, 30 years ago, they guessed that people would be having small carry on bags. Laptop computers simply did not exist, leave alone the other issues of connections and so on that we are discussing here.

edi_local

You hear it at check in all the time:

"Can I just check the size/weight of your carry on baggage?"

"It's the standard size/I take it on all my flights/I took it last week on this route/I am not checking in my valuables/I don't want it to get lost/I have a tight connection on the ground at the other end/I am a gold card holder, I can take what I want..."

Then there's the people who knowingly ignore the restriction sand check in online and waltz up to the gate with huge bags, either slipping them by the gate staff or kicking up a fuss about them being taken off them at such a late stage in the game, causing a delay to the boarding process.

Every excuse in the book is used so that people don't part with this hand luggage, but at the end of the day even if every passenger brings a small trolley bag which meets the airlines requirements perfectly there will still be problems on board the aircraft. Until someone steps in and draws a line which all airlines must stick to then we will continue to see confusion and delays due to hand baggage for years to come. The maximum restrictions currently in place are far too generous and should be bought down and then applied to everyone. Nothing more than a laptop bag or small backpack/holdall which is easily squashed to fit in to an overhead, not some rigid suitcase thing. Imagine a 23KG bag falling out of the overhead locker on a bumpy landing...that'd kill someone.


Edit:

Airline has ridiculously large cabin bag allowance-->experiences delays with cabin baggage problems on departure-->passenger satisfaction falls due to delays-->airline gets bad press due to poor passenger satisfaction-->Airline changes policy to only permit more sensible sizes-->passengers baggage checked more closely at gates and at check in-->causes longer lines, which cause delays and causes more bags to be taken off of passengers-->causing more harassment for ground staff-->passengers complain more about what they are having taken off them-->airline customer satisfaction falls-->airline gets bad press for taking peoples hand baggage off passengers (cue sob stories in the mail)-->airline re-introduces old policy of take whatever you want on board-->repeat process from the start!

Airlines, as usual, are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

PAXboy

Yes edi_local, that is EXACTLY the Catch-22 the carriers are in. It is further complicated by numerous Govts and their CAAs (or equivalent) and sometimes the military making arbitrary changes. Depending on the country of origin they may all be one and the same!

It is my long held view that there is NO way out of this loop. The god of 'competition is good' reigns supreme in the West and most of the East too. Carriers know that pax WILL change if they can get 'more for less' on other carriers. In the Biz cabins, it has long been neccessary to turn a blind eye for much of it.

But if you REALLY want to see what people bring into the cabin (or want to check in) then ask around in the African forum!