Greens want to Ban over flights of Melbourne
The Greens all live in The Peoples Republic of Northcote. I guess they get traffic for YMEN.
Where I live, a helicopter is either a fire bomber or a friend - in both cases welcome.
The most dangerous result for aviation from this Green bill is the message it sends to both major political parties: That green support for government legislation can be bought by F%^&ing over aviation again.
Where I live, a helicopter is either a fire bomber or a friend - in both cases welcome.
The most dangerous result for aviation from this Green bill is the message it sends to both major political parties: That green support for government legislation can be bought by F%^&ing over aviation again.
Last edited by Sunfish; 1st Dec 2016 at 21:13.
Update on our letter.
The AOPA Australia have received communication from the office of Adam Bandt MP and is looking forward to meeting in Melbourne so that we can discuss.
BEN
The AOPA Australia have received communication from the office of Adam Bandt MP and is looking forward to meeting in Melbourne so that we can discuss.
BEN
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Fair comment, my experience however is that you only get one chance to grab attention of the Minister. That means a letter that's easy to read and not distracting and which raises a couple of points that make him stop and think. Ultimately it's him the Greens need across the line if they want this to go. If he won't buy it and if he thinks he will feel pressure then it won't happen. That's why this letter needed to give him the headlines about why he should be concerned.
The letter won't get his attention like it needs to.
The letter won't get his attention like it needs to.
MikeJulietHotel, they can't just come out swinging straight away, the Greens have barely mentioned what any of their specific issues are that are causing them to seek this.
As such AOPA are trying to find out what the issues are and I'm sure they will then bring out facts to oppose it that are directly related to the issues the Greens raise.
As such AOPA are trying to find out what the issues are and I'm sure they will then bring out facts to oppose it that are directly related to the issues the Greens raise.
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Approx 2 years ago I attended a meeting that was hosted by AA at the MCG and all of the relevant helicopter companies were invited. Unfortunately a very busy scenic company based at EN choose not to turn up.
One of the issues identified is when EN airspace is under IF/SVFR conditions that helicopters get held outside CTA and they tend to orbit over Melb East. It was discussed to include an alternative holding area that was less noise intrusive as an amendment into the ERSA entry for EN.
There was plenty of other discussion, but I don't have a copy of the minutes. Someone from AA may have more details.
I will inform other members of the AHIA about this thread and info.
One of the issues identified is when EN airspace is under IF/SVFR conditions that helicopters get held outside CTA and they tend to orbit over Melb East. It was discussed to include an alternative holding area that was less noise intrusive as an amendment into the ERSA entry for EN.
There was plenty of other discussion, but I don't have a copy of the minutes. Someone from AA may have more details.
I will inform other members of the AHIA about this thread and info.
Helicopter joy flights in city areas normally result in a complete closure of the helipad. Happened in Sydney and also at Fishermans Wharf in San Fran. And everywhere else I have researched
Random movements quite often acceptable. Continuous joy flights drive people mad.
Suggest the joy flights stop before a complete closure like in Sydney .
Random movements quite often acceptable. Continuous joy flights drive people mad.
Suggest the joy flights stop before a complete closure like in Sydney .
Helicopter joy flights in city areas normally result in a complete closure of the helipad. Happened in Sydney and also at Fishermans Wharf in San Fran. And everywhere else I have researched
Random movements quite often acceptable. Continuous joy flights drive people mad.
Suggest the joy flights stop before a complete closure like in Sydney .
Random movements quite often acceptable. Continuous joy flights drive people mad.
Suggest the joy flights stop before a complete closure like in Sydney .
City orbits by joyflighting fixed wing from Moorabbin are just as frequent, as are inbound RPT routing for right base to 34 at YMML overflying at ~2,000-2,500ft.
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"continuous helicopter joy flights"
"Continuous joy flights"
either way it is horrible being next to a place that has "often" helicopter movements. It is on par with standing in front of a Garret TPE engine. Depending on the chopper not sure what is the worst.
"Continuous joy flights"
either way it is horrible being next to a place that has "often" helicopter movements. It is on par with standing in front of a Garret TPE engine. Depending on the chopper not sure what is the worst.
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The joy flight company is based at YMEN, an airport not one of the pads on the Yarra.
EN has class C airspace and is perfect for training and therefore every flying school in the Melbourne basin sends students in and out of there for training. For helicopters this is generally not above 1500' and fixed wing either at or not below 1500'.
I think one option would be to vary the routes in and out. But a flight over the MCG is a fantastic view, although it is what takes the aircraft over East Melbourne where a lot of the complaints are coming from.
EN has class C airspace and is perfect for training and therefore every flying school in the Melbourne basin sends students in and out of there for training. For helicopters this is generally not above 1500' and fixed wing either at or not below 1500'.
I think one option would be to vary the routes in and out. But a flight over the MCG is a fantastic view, although it is what takes the aircraft over East Melbourne where a lot of the complaints are coming from.
Devil's Advocate mode on: Myself and the Grievance and Discipline Committee were strolling in the Melbourne Botanic Gardens on a Sunday recently. This thread came to mind. Even I, a 'total aviation person', found the helicopter noise intrusive and incessant. If they were Hueys it would have been something out of Apocalypse Now. Just an observation. Devil's Advocate mode off.
Still better than the buskers elsewhere in the city though.
Still better than the buskers elsewhere in the city though.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 8th Dec 2016 at 00:36.
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Devil's Advocate mode on: Myself and the Grievance and Discipline Committee were strolling in the Melbourne Botanic Gardens on a Sunday recently. This thread came to mind. Even I, a 'total aviation person', found the helicopter noise intrusive and incessant. If they were Hueys it would have been something out of Apocalypse Now. Just an observation. Devil's Advocate mode off.
Still better than the buskers elsewhere in the city though.
Still better than the buskers elsewhere in the city though.
Botanic Gardens is under commonly used approach path for helicopter ambulance to Alfred Hospital, main Trauma Centre for Victoria. Weekend is busiest time for them.
Heh... irritating things untill yer need a ride to hospital..
I couldn't imagine too many Melburnians would pay for a jollie over the city so i'm guessing it is tourists. So the green numpties are attacking those that is earning tourist dollars for Melbourne business. The typical mindset of those that live off the public purse..
.
I couldn't imagine too many Melburnians would pay for a jollie over the city so i'm guessing it is tourists. So the green numpties are attacking those that is earning tourist dollars for Melbourne business. The typical mindset of those that live off the public purse..
.
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Looking at it again on map, I am wrong. Botanic Gardens is too far away, so more likely non ambulance traffic that Dart heard.
Must say Botanic Gardens Melb is one of my favourite places.
Must say Botanic Gardens Melb is one of my favourite places.
And it would be fine and dandy if the greens came and said "We'd like to review the use of Airspace by Helicopters and Fixed Wing Aircraft in the Melbourne CBD Area in order to reduce noise pollution that affects residents in the area" instead we basically get "TELL THEM ALL TO P*SS OFF!"
In other words they most likely did little to research on the issue before putting this out there and don't have a damned clue what they're talking about they just don't want those whizzy, noisy things in the sky anywhere near them or the property they own...oops, I mean they don't want them near their constituents whom they represent and have complained about it!
In other words they most likely did little to research on the issue before putting this out there and don't have a damned clue what they're talking about they just don't want those whizzy, noisy things in the sky anywhere near them or the property they own...oops, I mean they don't want them near their constituents whom they represent and have complained about it!
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^^^ What he said. The Greens indulge in the very worst form of reactive politics. From my perspective it's not policy or values driven, it just appears to be responding to every pressure group in the electorate because every single vote is what it takes to keep them there.
Decent politicians have a "tell them to piss off" kind of approach for things that matter more than the interests of a small sub set. Yes that pisses me off if I'm one of the subset, but it's better representation than this crap.
Decent politicians have a "tell them to piss off" kind of approach for things that matter more than the interests of a small sub set. Yes that pisses me off if I'm one of the subset, but it's better representation than this crap.
There is only one mantra for Australia at present; "Growth, Investment, Jobs".
This was drummed into my head when I was a lowly stoker in the Geoff Kennett ship of state in Victoria.
Each and every policy proposal, plan, regulation, idea and action was measured by asking the simple question; "what does XXX do for Growth, Investment and Jobs?". If the answer for any of them was in the negative, we didn't do it. Simple.
Clearly the Greens don't want to care about this because their proposal negatively impacts all of the above. I'm not sure if the current Labor opposition or Government understands it either. The coming recession should concentrate their minds on those three things.
On a related topic, if I had unlimited free time, it would be interesting to see the statistics on GA, because using GDP numbers the sector should probably be 50% larger if it had kept up with the rest of the economy over the last ten years. That would quantify what the dead hand of CASA has cost us.
This was drummed into my head when I was a lowly stoker in the Geoff Kennett ship of state in Victoria.
Each and every policy proposal, plan, regulation, idea and action was measured by asking the simple question; "what does XXX do for Growth, Investment and Jobs?". If the answer for any of them was in the negative, we didn't do it. Simple.
Clearly the Greens don't want to care about this because their proposal negatively impacts all of the above. I'm not sure if the current Labor opposition or Government understands it either. The coming recession should concentrate their minds on those three things.
On a related topic, if I had unlimited free time, it would be interesting to see the statistics on GA, because using GDP numbers the sector should probably be 50% larger if it had kept up with the rest of the economy over the last ten years. That would quantify what the dead hand of CASA has cost us.
Since 2004 number of residents in Municipality of Melbourne (extends from docklands to Jolimont) has risen from estimated 75000 to 137000.
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/Site...eport-2015.pdf
The above report estimates that on a typical weekday 800,000 folk are present in Melbourne living working or hanging out..
Some personal observations....
I occasionally stay in a low rise flat (no double glazing) in East Melbourne and R44 traffic have regularly caught my attention in the morning.
In the past month I've visited Royal Melbourne Hospital and was happy to witness HEMS landings on three out of four visits.
Apart from the occasions as a back seat passenger, I've seen just one landing on the Yarra in the 7 years I've been back in oz.
Helicopters seem to be more noticeable in Melbourne than London, perhaps as London background noise at street level is higher?
Also Melbourne is a more open air society (think of parks and barbies) compared to London or New York.
A 60 something couple I know gave up on living in a high rise near Southbank two years ago as they could not bear the noise of garbage trucks collecting from businesses in early hours, where the use of large metal bins is common.
LA accepts the noise of media helicopters. (I was once in the air with 8 other media helicopters in LA) but tinsel town more than any society, applaudes the notion of 5 minutes of fame so they are a special case.
This week Victoria State Government committed to funding three new Police helicopters and a new fixed wing.
Last time I looked, Victoria, per capita, has far fewer helicopters in emergency services role compared to the UK or USA.
Curiously Victorian Police helicopters seem to rarely loiter, at least compared to LA or Met Police.
The number of stabilised camera systems in Australia has doubled in recent years.
So it seems likly there will be an increase in helicopter movements overhead a growing city which is proud of the claim of being the most livable city in the world.
Mickjoebill
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/Site...eport-2015.pdf
The above report estimates that on a typical weekday 800,000 folk are present in Melbourne living working or hanging out..
Some personal observations....
I occasionally stay in a low rise flat (no double glazing) in East Melbourne and R44 traffic have regularly caught my attention in the morning.
In the past month I've visited Royal Melbourne Hospital and was happy to witness HEMS landings on three out of four visits.
Apart from the occasions as a back seat passenger, I've seen just one landing on the Yarra in the 7 years I've been back in oz.
Helicopters seem to be more noticeable in Melbourne than London, perhaps as London background noise at street level is higher?
Also Melbourne is a more open air society (think of parks and barbies) compared to London or New York.
A 60 something couple I know gave up on living in a high rise near Southbank two years ago as they could not bear the noise of garbage trucks collecting from businesses in early hours, where the use of large metal bins is common.
LA accepts the noise of media helicopters. (I was once in the air with 8 other media helicopters in LA) but tinsel town more than any society, applaudes the notion of 5 minutes of fame so they are a special case.
This week Victoria State Government committed to funding three new Police helicopters and a new fixed wing.
Last time I looked, Victoria, per capita, has far fewer helicopters in emergency services role compared to the UK or USA.
Curiously Victorian Police helicopters seem to rarely loiter, at least compared to LA or Met Police.
The number of stabilised camera systems in Australia has doubled in recent years.
So it seems likly there will be an increase in helicopter movements overhead a growing city which is proud of the claim of being the most livable city in the world.
Mickjoebill
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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irritating things untill yer need a ride to hospital..
The Greens indulge in the very worst form of reactive politics. From my perspective it's not policy or values driven, it just appears to be responding to every pressure group in the electorate because every single vote is what it takes to keep them there.
Don't believe me? Do a bit of research on various Green MP's backgrounds.
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