How long will the Government ignore an important Forsyth recommendation re ASICs?
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How long will the Government ignore an important Forsyth recommendation re ASICs?
I have recently sent the attached letter to the Minister. It will be interesting to see the answer.
Last edited by Dick Smith; 28th Nov 2016 at 20:30.
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I wouldn't mind reading the letter either. This happened before. Obviously my own doing, but I'll try to pick it up as the thread progresses.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Even if we could read the letter, I will hazard an answer to Dick's question re any answer from the Government by saying the following;
Can anyone give me a definite example where any Government has ever accepted/acted upon any recommendation re absolutely anything which was subject to any Government enquiry/Royal Commission??
Cynical....who....me?????
Can anyone give me a definite example where any Government has ever accepted/acted upon any recommendation re absolutely anything which was subject to any Government enquiry/Royal Commission??
Cynical....who....me?????
I think the moderators have to confirm that a linked PDF document doesn't have any electronic, defamatory or sensitive nasties in it, before it's made available for download from PPRuNe.
In any event, the answer to your question, Dick, is: The government didn't pay any attention or care about the recommendation in the first place.
In any event, the answer to your question, Dick, is: The government didn't pay any attention or care about the recommendation in the first place.
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Yes, weird system. No notification is sent to Moderators.
I think it is now "approved" and all can open and read Dick's letter??
I think it is now "approved" and all can open and read Dick's letter??
Yes. (Affirm, to meet post length minima...)
Moderator
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Dick,
Please let me start by saying I am in no way a fan of the totality of the ASIC regime as it stands, however I'm afraid to say that I think your horse has well and truly bolted. The Dept has just gone through a fairly lengthy regulatory change wrt ASICs and there was certainly no shortage of well documented consultative meetings. Sadly and as I have lamented previously on these pages, GA and the pilot fraternity in general were poorly (read not at all) represented.
The SRAs that you refer to in your letter are largely confined to security Cat 1 and 2 and some Cat 3 airports. The removal of the requirement outside SRAs was also strongly supported by some of the airport operators, but this one was never going to get off the ground with the regulator.
Recent changes in the terrorism threat levels I suggest would give ministers very little appetite to take any action that could be perceived as reducing the security outcome.
Please let me start by saying I am in no way a fan of the totality of the ASIC regime as it stands, however I'm afraid to say that I think your horse has well and truly bolted. The Dept has just gone through a fairly lengthy regulatory change wrt ASICs and there was certainly no shortage of well documented consultative meetings. Sadly and as I have lamented previously on these pages, GA and the pilot fraternity in general were poorly (read not at all) represented.
The SRAs that you refer to in your letter are largely confined to security Cat 1 and 2 and some Cat 3 airports. The removal of the requirement outside SRAs was also strongly supported by some of the airport operators, but this one was never going to get off the ground with the regulator.
Recent changes in the terrorism threat levels I suggest would give ministers very little appetite to take any action that could be perceived as reducing the security outcome.
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along the same lines as the AOPA Eureka report being ignored?
I haven't heard any response to it? But then i do live under a rock...
issuing of ASIC's probably turns a tidy profit!
I haven't heard any response to it? But then i do live under a rock...
issuing of ASIC's probably turns a tidy profit!
ASIC cards were introduced as a response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Some may recall that a light aircraft flew into the Pirelli tower in Milan at about the same time, which heightened concerns.
Once again, many will recall that the introduction of ASIC cards was completely botched and the requirement to have them was introduced before there was the capability to issue them. Aviation ID in Merimbula filled the vacuum.
At the time the FAA made a report into the terrorism threat posed by GA. They wrote a detailed report that (from memory) was 60 pages long. It took each segment of GA and analysed the risks of each. Training, private flying, charter, freight, ag, etc. The report concluded that except for a risk of ag aircraft being used for a biological agent attack, that there was little risk posed by GA. They introduced some controls for ag flying, but the rest of GA was untouched.
By contrast, CASA wrote a report that covered maybe 3 pages and treated GA as a single activity with no recognition of the different risks posed by different segments. And from this scant analysis we got airport fences and ASIC cards.
The fences added millions of dollars cost to airports. ASIC cards add to the cost of private flying. And commercially, the requirement for a student pilot to have an ASIC before commencing training hurt the flying schools significantly. I am told a prospective pilot can no longer go from a TIF straight into training.
And all of this cost and inconvenience was based on a brief superficial review of the threat of terrorists to GA.
Now we have a government commissioned report saying the regulatory impact of ASIC caqrds is significant and that there is no justification for the current ASIC requirements for GA.
There is now a number of empires built around ASIC cards and airport securitry and a number of public service mandarins benefiting. But the minister needs to grow a pair and return us to a common sense approach.
Once again, many will recall that the introduction of ASIC cards was completely botched and the requirement to have them was introduced before there was the capability to issue them. Aviation ID in Merimbula filled the vacuum.
At the time the FAA made a report into the terrorism threat posed by GA. They wrote a detailed report that (from memory) was 60 pages long. It took each segment of GA and analysed the risks of each. Training, private flying, charter, freight, ag, etc. The report concluded that except for a risk of ag aircraft being used for a biological agent attack, that there was little risk posed by GA. They introduced some controls for ag flying, but the rest of GA was untouched.
By contrast, CASA wrote a report that covered maybe 3 pages and treated GA as a single activity with no recognition of the different risks posed by different segments. And from this scant analysis we got airport fences and ASIC cards.
The fences added millions of dollars cost to airports. ASIC cards add to the cost of private flying. And commercially, the requirement for a student pilot to have an ASIC before commencing training hurt the flying schools significantly. I am told a prospective pilot can no longer go from a TIF straight into training.
And all of this cost and inconvenience was based on a brief superficial review of the threat of terrorists to GA.
Now we have a government commissioned report saying the regulatory impact of ASIC caqrds is significant and that there is no justification for the current ASIC requirements for GA.
There is now a number of empires built around ASIC cards and airport securitry and a number of public service mandarins benefiting. But the minister needs to grow a pair and return us to a common sense approach.
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Dick. Thanks for the personal intervention.
This subject is a pet of mine having opposed the ASIC introduction at Board level at AOPA in the day when the ruling "troika" felt being an "accredited" issuer would force people to join the organization through membership discounts. The original pamphlets put out to support the introduction by DOT clearly showed by way of diagram the "security sensitive" zones and one was given to believe a tin of red or yellow paint would identify these airline terminal, fuel and navigation equipment areas. The problem was, DOT proclaimed no funding for airport upgrades, (free cash), would be forthcoming unless "ALL" the airside was thus categorized. Petty local identities given to exposing their imagined importance took up the issue and pilots were hounded and threatened.
The whole affair presents as a farce of "Applebyesque" magnitude and is simply begging for a spate of public disobedience. My own "ASIC" depicts an unmentionable part of the female anatomy and passed on to me by another "anarchist". And, before you ask, I've never been taken to task wearing it nor offended anybody due to its unimaginable irrelevance. In fact I've seen others depicting Labrador dogs, (no offence to Lab's implied), and one depicting a chap wearing a WW2 Eastern European military despots image with very rakish cap and what looks like a ZZ insignia.
Our newish Minister doesn't put me in any frame of mind one would consider easy. In fact he presents as part of the problem, not any solution. But it's worth the effort to put it to him if only to put it on record. I applaud you for that.
I know you won't agree, but I urge others to treat the scandal in the same vein as the proposers and if you own an ASIC, obscure it to force challenge or wear a red Hi-Vis vest such that the identity is moot or just make your own and be prepared to break rocks for the principle.
This subject is a pet of mine having opposed the ASIC introduction at Board level at AOPA in the day when the ruling "troika" felt being an "accredited" issuer would force people to join the organization through membership discounts. The original pamphlets put out to support the introduction by DOT clearly showed by way of diagram the "security sensitive" zones and one was given to believe a tin of red or yellow paint would identify these airline terminal, fuel and navigation equipment areas. The problem was, DOT proclaimed no funding for airport upgrades, (free cash), would be forthcoming unless "ALL" the airside was thus categorized. Petty local identities given to exposing their imagined importance took up the issue and pilots were hounded and threatened.
The whole affair presents as a farce of "Applebyesque" magnitude and is simply begging for a spate of public disobedience. My own "ASIC" depicts an unmentionable part of the female anatomy and passed on to me by another "anarchist". And, before you ask, I've never been taken to task wearing it nor offended anybody due to its unimaginable irrelevance. In fact I've seen others depicting Labrador dogs, (no offence to Lab's implied), and one depicting a chap wearing a WW2 Eastern European military despots image with very rakish cap and what looks like a ZZ insignia.
Our newish Minister doesn't put me in any frame of mind one would consider easy. In fact he presents as part of the problem, not any solution. But it's worth the effort to put it to him if only to put it on record. I applaud you for that.
I know you won't agree, but I urge others to treat the scandal in the same vein as the proposers and if you own an ASIC, obscure it to force challenge or wear a red Hi-Vis vest such that the identity is moot or just make your own and be prepared to break rocks for the principle.
And if you didn't think it could get any worse. There is now a White ASIC for those who are involved in the acceptance, transportation, or otherwise handling air freight. This one doesn't allow you to have unescorted access in secure areas and as far as I know, doesn't get you the discount at your usual terminal cafe's. But still costs the same.
Frank, I think the wharfies with their MSICs would probably outdo anything you have or have seen on an ASIC. That is in the sights for the next round of legislation changes where names will have to be as they appear on ID documents ie Passport, Drivers licence etc. Photos will be required to be of the same standard as passport photos.
Frank, I think the wharfies with their MSICs would probably outdo anything you have or have seen on an ASIC. That is in the sights for the next round of legislation changes where names will have to be as they appear on ID documents ie Passport, Drivers licence etc. Photos will be required to be of the same standard as passport photos.
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If names have to appear as accurate why not a drivers licence or passport. Or forbid the idea, a pilot licence or certificate??
A recently presented AFP card had printed on the back...You are the eyes and ears of the airport. Report any suspicious or unusual activity.
Was able to advise the card offerer that 'you are 7 years too late'
How so? he responded.
In the USA thats exactly what they said to GA and they HAD 9/ll.
We just got pollywafflers and bureaurats seeing a 'lets do something' business opportunity.
Was able to advise the card offerer that 'you are 7 years too late'
How so? he responded.
In the USA thats exactly what they said to GA and they HAD 9/ll.
We just got pollywafflers and bureaurats seeing a 'lets do something' business opportunity.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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We just got pollywafflers and bureaurats seeing a 'lets do something' business opportunity.
After the events of September 11th, Aviation security obviously came into question. An extremely cynical part of me thinks that the Government of the day saw that not only could they be seen to be doing something to strengthen the security at Airports, but (more importantly to them really) that they could raise lots of more revenue!
How much does it cost to get the ASIC?
Who benefits?
Does it work?