Where is the Cobham/AMSA SAR Challenger 604???
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: australia
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The sad fact is the Australian tax payer is being duped. AMSA chose a dud platform. The most likely reason the Challenger is not online is because of lack of approval from CASA. Multiple strikes along the fuselage isn't good. It's a definite concern however it is not Cobham's problem. Cobham held up the shiny slick bid and AMSA took it. AMSA will eventually realise they no longer run the contract. Heads will roll. Soon AMSA will be overrun by former Cobham employees and there will be no turning back. Just ask Customs.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given the recurring issues with dropping stores and the limited size and weight (from what is being said here) of stores that can be dropped maybe the Do -328Jet might have been a better aircraft option than a C604 or other rear engine biz jet.
T tail for clearance when dropping stores, similar systems to Do t/prop and readily available P& W 300 series engines.
Was a limited production run aircraft at 110 copies but still in use with numerous operators and this is a specialist role requiring a modified aircraft anyway.
Maybe a bit slow though for transit with a max speed of approx 400kts compared to approx 320kt (?)for the t/prop.
(Can't think of any other jet in that size range with 2 wing mounted engines and T tail )
Just a thought but one that was probably considered and rejected on cost grounds since the 604 is a lot smaller and no doubt cheaper to operate to maximize profits on the contract.
After all,.... its all about min cost & max profit,.... like everything else nowadays.......never mind about choosing equipment that can easily fill the role and do the job without basic fundamental issues,...to help save lives !!!
( sorry, the cynic came out at the end there)
T tail for clearance when dropping stores, similar systems to Do t/prop and readily available P& W 300 series engines.
Was a limited production run aircraft at 110 copies but still in use with numerous operators and this is a specialist role requiring a modified aircraft anyway.
Maybe a bit slow though for transit with a max speed of approx 400kts compared to approx 320kt (?)for the t/prop.
(Can't think of any other jet in that size range with 2 wing mounted engines and T tail )
Just a thought but one that was probably considered and rejected on cost grounds since the 604 is a lot smaller and no doubt cheaper to operate to maximize profits on the contract.
After all,.... its all about min cost & max profit,.... like everything else nowadays.......never mind about choosing equipment that can easily fill the role and do the job without basic fundamental issues,...to help save lives !!!
( sorry, the cynic came out at the end there)
Last edited by aussie027; 25th Aug 2016 at 04:27.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMSA may consider termination for any material non-performance or underperformance of the services. For example, AMSA would consider any of the following circumstances to give rise to
material breaches of a resultant contract:
Availability Rolling Period
Average availability across all bases 85% or greater to less than 95% - 6 months
Average availability across all bases 75% or greater to less than 85% - 4 months
Average availability across all bases less than 75% - 3 months
Availability at any one, or more, bases less than 75% - 3 months
Its this last one that will come into consideration in October!!
Interesting days ahead.
material breaches of a resultant contract:
Availability Rolling Period
Average availability across all bases 85% or greater to less than 95% - 6 months
Average availability across all bases 75% or greater to less than 85% - 4 months
Average availability across all bases less than 75% - 3 months
Availability at any one, or more, bases less than 75% - 3 months
Its this last one that will come into consideration in October!!
Interesting days ahead.
XNC was doing extensive aerial work out of YBHI a few weeks ago. Also apparently down in the SE of SA for a while too according to my sources. Since it was apparent that they weren't actually looking for anything (i.e. a downed aircraft), I assumed it was some sort of exercise.
DF.
DF.
XNC is the training rig with first prototype drop chute system. Has been flying it's arse off here! Cameras all over the airframe capturing every drop to fine tune the system that has been chosen.
No AOC issues either, the aircraft is experimental...because it's just that, first of type with extensive modifications.
Operational flying starts beginning of September. As always planned.
No AOC issues either, the aircraft is experimental...because it's just that, first of type with extensive modifications.
Operational flying starts beginning of September. As always planned.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fact. contractually it was required to be task capable on the start date. Now we are being told cairns aircraft will be a month late. That means even more gaps in the SAR plan. Cobham gonna pretty well do what they want, AMSA has no choice. Less capable aircraft, new sensors which are unitegrated and unproven, an unsafe, or at best ineffective drop system, but hey, at least it's not cheap.
Well, I watched it land yesterday in Perth on runway 24 and it wasn't on the ground until just after the C intersection. That, for those that don't know Perth, is a bit over half way down the runway and the runway is only 2163m long.
I was waiting for it to go spearing through the end onto the grass, but it didn't.
I was waiting for it to go spearing through the end onto the grass, but it didn't.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XNC is the training rig with first prototype drop chute system. Has been flying it's arse off here! Cameras all over the airframe capturing every drop to fine tune the system that has been chosen.
No AOC issues either, the aircraft is experimental...because it's just that, first of type with extensive modifications.
Operational flying starts beginning of September. As always planned.
No AOC issues either, the aircraft is experimental...because it's just that, first of type with extensive modifications.
Operational flying starts beginning of September. As always planned.
Cairns also going to be a month delayed.
All good having unproven onboard sensors, but they are all pointless if they cant drop!!
The fully operational machine will be over here within the next week or so, to coincide with the operational requirement start date.
The main holdups in this project has actually been AMSA not supplying crucial data like the size of stores etc until the very last minute. Cobham have met the requirements each step of the way. The aircraft was on time in Perth for AMSA crew training as stated in contract.
Cairns was always scheduled for Jan/Feb 2017.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah so you've read the contract then? The start date wasn't for the start of SAR capability but training.
The fully operational machine will be over here within the next week or so, to coincide with the operational requirement start date.
The main holdups in this project has actually been AMSA not supplying crucial data like the size of stores etc until the very last minute. Cobham have met the requirements each step of the way. The aircraft was on time in Perth for AMSA crew training as stated in contract.
Cairns was always scheduled for Jan/Feb 2017.
The fully operational machine will be over here within the next week or so, to coincide with the operational requirement start date.
The main holdups in this project has actually been AMSA not supplying crucial data like the size of stores etc until the very last minute. Cobham have met the requirements each step of the way. The aircraft was on time in Perth for AMSA crew training as stated in contract.
Cairns was always scheduled for Jan/Feb 2017.
Everyone should take note that it appears Cobham are quick to blame their new client as being responsible for their in ability to meet contract imperatives.
Enough!! You guys are insane. Move on and look for another job!
*hot tip 1* prepare for the interview. What ever you do, don't assume you'll get a job because you were employed by the previous contract owner.
*tip 2* don't burn bridges when you move between jobs. (*hint - they might not take you back)
It's really not that complicated!
Now move on.
*hot tip 1* prepare for the interview. What ever you do, don't assume you'll get a job because you were employed by the previous contract owner.
*tip 2* don't burn bridges when you move between jobs. (*hint - they might not take you back)
It's really not that complicated!
Now move on.
Yep, pretty much full bottle on the contract, don't know what fairy tale your reading. As far as stores go, the RFT (that's request for tender) stated specifically that the selected aircraft will be capable of dropping the current array of stores. They even provided pictures and specifications - incidentally stating a maximum tested deployment speed of 160 kts-, also it should be noted that visual surveillance which is bread and butter SAR work, is to be done at 130 kts.
Everyone should take note that it appears Cobham are quick to blame their new client as being responsible for their in ability to meet contract imperatives.
Everyone should take note that it appears Cobham are quick to blame their new client as being responsible for their in ability to meet contract imperatives.
Yes aware of the fact there was a request for information swapping but it didn't come to fruition until very late in the game.
Enough!! You guys are insane. Move on and look for another job!
*hot tip 1* prepare for the interview. What ever you do, don't assume you'll get a job because you were employed by the previous contract owner.
*tip 2* don't burn bridges when you move between jobs. (*hint - they might not take you back)
It's really not that complicated!
Now move on.
*hot tip 1* prepare for the interview. What ever you do, don't assume you'll get a job because you were employed by the previous contract owner.
*tip 2* don't burn bridges when you move between jobs. (*hint - they might not take you back)
It's really not that complicated!
Now move on.