Pilot Trec Smith and Marree man.
Thread Starter
Pilot Trec Smith and Marree man.
Does anyone know where Trec is these days?
It was reported he was the first person to sight the Marree Man. I would love to talk to Trec or anyone else who has info on this first sighting.
The Marree Man has now nearly disappeared which is a pity, however there is talk of re instating it. I hope this happens - it will give a much needed boost to employment in aviation and other fields in the area.
It was reported he was the first person to sight the Marree Man. I would love to talk to Trec or anyone else who has info on this first sighting.
The Marree Man has now nearly disappeared which is a pity, however there is talk of re instating it. I hope this happens - it will give a much needed boost to employment in aviation and other fields in the area.
Moderator
Does anyone know where Trec is these days?
It was reported he was the first person to sight the Marree Man. I would love to talk to Trec or anyone else who has info on this first sighting.
The Marree Man has now nearly disappeared which is a pity, however there is talk of re instating it. I hope this happens - it will give a much needed boost to employment in aviation and other fields in the area.
It was reported he was the first person to sight the Marree Man. I would love to talk to Trec or anyone else who has info on this first sighting.
The Marree Man has now nearly disappeared which is a pity, however there is talk of re instating it. I hope this happens - it will give a much needed boost to employment in aviation and other fields in the area.
DF.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember flying over it in 2009 and you could only just see the outline and you needed to know what you were looking for. Without any further input into its maintenance I doubt whether there is anything to see now. I was told at the time that it was the work of the Americans who at that time were closing the base at Nurrungar as it was suggested that they had the necessary equipment to carve the figure accurately. Dunno if thats true or not.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Marree Man will never be re-instated, for the simple reasons that even the smallest amount of environmental damage to flora in semi-desert country is no longer tolerated, nor acceptable. For the same reason the Readymix logo on the Nullarbor will never be re-instated.
For many decades, utilising tracked machines in exploration or mining-lease gridding work has been banned in South Australia, due to the express reason that it is deemed too damaging to the environment. Only wheeled machines are allowed to be used, and even their use is heavily monitored and restricted.
As an agricultural and mining earthmoving contractor in a previous life, I can assure you the mid-1980's saw a massive "green" revolt over excessive agricultural land-clearing, excessive mining and exploration flora damage, and uncontrolled works involving any destruction of native flora.
Extensive salt encroachment on cleared farmland in W.A., plus the realisation that extensive varieties of both native flora and native fauna were being wiped out at an alarming rate - with many species possibly not even being recorded before they were made extinct, led to the upswelling of the "Green" grassroots and political movement, which now has entrenched political power and a highly vocal front.
This movement is stridently vociferous whenever it sees a blade of grass being damaged. The continuing clearing of native vegetation for farmland in QLD is their major target at present. I fully expect them to chain themselves to the bulldozers shortly.
Somewhere along the way, there is a balance between unnecessary and excessive clearing, and the stopping of any form of development.
However, the creation of the Marree Man was highly illegal in the first place, and any attempt to recreate it, will be met with strident Green opposition, and legislative punishment as well.
The equipment needed to create it would not have needed to be anything more than a moderate-size bulldozer, preferably fitted with an angling blade - or even just a motor grader, if the operator was skilled enough.
For many decades, utilising tracked machines in exploration or mining-lease gridding work has been banned in South Australia, due to the express reason that it is deemed too damaging to the environment. Only wheeled machines are allowed to be used, and even their use is heavily monitored and restricted.
As an agricultural and mining earthmoving contractor in a previous life, I can assure you the mid-1980's saw a massive "green" revolt over excessive agricultural land-clearing, excessive mining and exploration flora damage, and uncontrolled works involving any destruction of native flora.
Extensive salt encroachment on cleared farmland in W.A., plus the realisation that extensive varieties of both native flora and native fauna were being wiped out at an alarming rate - with many species possibly not even being recorded before they were made extinct, led to the upswelling of the "Green" grassroots and political movement, which now has entrenched political power and a highly vocal front.
This movement is stridently vociferous whenever it sees a blade of grass being damaged. The continuing clearing of native vegetation for farmland in QLD is their major target at present. I fully expect them to chain themselves to the bulldozers shortly.
Somewhere along the way, there is a balance between unnecessary and excessive clearing, and the stopping of any form of development.
However, the creation of the Marree Man was highly illegal in the first place, and any attempt to recreate it, will be met with strident Green opposition, and legislative punishment as well.
The equipment needed to create it would not have needed to be anything more than a moderate-size bulldozer, preferably fitted with an angling blade - or even just a motor grader, if the operator was skilled enough.
Thread Starter
Hold on. The local mine has received permission to upgrade their 29k long bore pipe with a huge trench going past the Marree Man site.
The local Aborigional land owners have told me they would like to see it re instated to bring tourists and jobs to the area.
I like the idea as it would assist the GA industry.
Then again you are probably correct. One law for wealthy mining companies while the first Australians have no say!
The local Aborigional land owners have told me they would like to see it re instated to bring tourists and jobs to the area.
I like the idea as it would assist the GA industry.
Then again you are probably correct. One law for wealthy mining companies while the first Australians have no say!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick, that's about the size of it. Everything is protected and untouchable, until a new massive highway plan, major subdivision, rail line, or mining expansion is produced - then it's O.K. to wipe out a million hectares of pristine vegetation or fine stands of trees.
Not sure about the other states, but here on the left coast, you can be fined serious amounts for cutting down any trees on your own property. You need extensive planning permission and approvals to carry out any vegetation removal, anywhere.
It's gone from one extreme to the other. In the 1960's we had a state development minister who bragged about "clearing a million acres a year" for farm development. I dare not even mention in casual conversation today that I was part of that - one immediately becomes a social pariah, treated as if you just admitted you were a pedo.
We dragged a chain between dozers, clearing up to 1000 acres a day. Yes, that's right, 1000 acres (247Ha) a day of native vegetation, often huge, magnificent trees, was totally flattened.
It's still happening in QLD today and it enrages the conservationists and greenies to screaming outrage.
You've seen the bitterness that land clearing fights provokes, with the murder of the land protection officer in NSW by the angry old farmer.
I do personally believe that clearing restrictions and controls are very important. In the 1960's it was just open slather, and even then, I didn't agree with quite a few of the clearing requests put to me by farmers - such as leaving nothing for shade or shelter - but I was just doing a job and operating under their instructions.
Many paid for their bad decisions later, with salt encroachment on cleared land, and stock deaths during cold snaps.
The semi-desert country such as Marree deserves special protection, because it's an environment where vegetation is thin, slow to grow, slow to recover from damage, and easily wiped out.
Very few people understand that even just sweeping the fallen leaves and bark from underneath many semi-desert trees will kill them. They rely on that fallen bark and leaves to preserve the tiny amounts of moisture that gathers there, that they rely on to survive.
Then we have the substantially increasing numbers of four-wheel-drivers who "need to go bush". They all need a massive campfire, so the vegetation suffers as the trees are damaged to get firewood.
These people will carry on about the desertification of 3rd world countries as the natives kill every tree to get firewood - and they fail to understand they are doing the same to Australia!
We need a lot more education amongst the general public as to just how fragile our native flora is, in low-rainfall areas.
Not sure about the other states, but here on the left coast, you can be fined serious amounts for cutting down any trees on your own property. You need extensive planning permission and approvals to carry out any vegetation removal, anywhere.
It's gone from one extreme to the other. In the 1960's we had a state development minister who bragged about "clearing a million acres a year" for farm development. I dare not even mention in casual conversation today that I was part of that - one immediately becomes a social pariah, treated as if you just admitted you were a pedo.
We dragged a chain between dozers, clearing up to 1000 acres a day. Yes, that's right, 1000 acres (247Ha) a day of native vegetation, often huge, magnificent trees, was totally flattened.
It's still happening in QLD today and it enrages the conservationists and greenies to screaming outrage.
You've seen the bitterness that land clearing fights provokes, with the murder of the land protection officer in NSW by the angry old farmer.
I do personally believe that clearing restrictions and controls are very important. In the 1960's it was just open slather, and even then, I didn't agree with quite a few of the clearing requests put to me by farmers - such as leaving nothing for shade or shelter - but I was just doing a job and operating under their instructions.
Many paid for their bad decisions later, with salt encroachment on cleared land, and stock deaths during cold snaps.
The semi-desert country such as Marree deserves special protection, because it's an environment where vegetation is thin, slow to grow, slow to recover from damage, and easily wiped out.
Very few people understand that even just sweeping the fallen leaves and bark from underneath many semi-desert trees will kill them. They rely on that fallen bark and leaves to preserve the tiny amounts of moisture that gathers there, that they rely on to survive.
Then we have the substantially increasing numbers of four-wheel-drivers who "need to go bush". They all need a massive campfire, so the vegetation suffers as the trees are damaged to get firewood.
These people will carry on about the desertification of 3rd world countries as the natives kill every tree to get firewood - and they fail to understand they are doing the same to Australia!
We need a lot more education amongst the general public as to just how fragile our native flora is, in low-rainfall areas.
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: eastcoastoz
Age: 76
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gee, onetrack...
And there was me thinking you were just a pretty face.
If people don't take notice of your post above, then, well...
Having said that, and, like yourself, having had a bit to do with with that kind of stuff out that way, I feel sure
that the Marree Man could, (and should), be re-instated with a minimum of damage to the environment.
Just my ever-so-humble opinion, of course.
.
And there was me thinking you were just a pretty face.
If people don't take notice of your post above, then, well...
Having said that, and, like yourself, having had a bit to do with with that kind of stuff out that way, I feel sure
that the Marree Man could, (and should), be re-instated with a minimum of damage to the environment.
Just my ever-so-humble opinion, of course.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 13th Aug 2016 at 13:34.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For an enlightening look at Australian flora and the damage that is been done in the name of conservation may I recommend Bill Gammage's book, "The Biggest Estate on Earth". Once read and understood you can begin to understand why the staff and students at the University of Tasmania Botany Department ganged together to stop Gammage from delivering a talk on Aboriginal fire management. The book questions one of the fundamental premises of Australian conservation; that natural features have natural causes.
Back on topic, I doubt that the carving of Marree Man did much to upset the flora and fauna when it was created and I doubt it would do much again if it was repeated. Having also driven down through that region it could certainly do with a lift and if the local Aboriginal people are supporting the idea then why not?
Back on topic, I doubt that the carving of Marree Man did much to upset the flora and fauna when it was created and I doubt it would do much again if it was repeated. Having also driven down through that region it could certainly do with a lift and if the local Aboriginal people are supporting the idea then why not?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PLovett, I think the current problem (now that the land the Marree Man is on, has been registered as Aboriginal Land - whereas, when the MM was created, it would have been "unallocated Crown Land") - is that the Aborigines who now own that parcel of land (Aboriginal Lands are the equivalent of Freehold Title, but they can never be sold) are divided on the benefit of the MM "construction" (for want of a better word) to them.
Firstly, the MM was created without any reference to them. As far as I know, no-one has carried out any research or logged any Aboriginal Sacred Sites in the area covered by MM.
You can laugh or sneer at Aboriginal Sacred Site claims, but they are a recognised part of our development, legal, and claims systems today, and they have to be considered when any development work is undertaken.
The Aborigines would want to know how they could benefit from a giant marking that has effectively defaced their land, according to them.
They can fence off Aboriginal lands that possess sought-after attractive features (i.e., Uluru) for ground visitors/tourists - and charge entry fees to provide them with income - but they would say they have no way of extracting income from aerial viewing of what they would consider to be, a "white mans mark" on their land.
From my research, it appears a very deep and wide cut was made in the soil, a depth varying from 20-35cms, according to on-site reports - and up to 40 metres wide.
A cut that deep creates erosion problems, and concentrated runoff during heavy rain events, in places where major runoff would not have previously occurred.
All development and exploration work today comes with strict orders with regard to pollution, runoff control, re-vegetation of disturbed areas, and intensive protection of native flora and fauna.
For the MM to be re-cut - firstly, Aboriginal owner approval would be needed, sacred sites identified, and plans then submitted to the governing land protection authorities, showing how all of the previously-mentioned items would be addressed to meet all the current legislative requirements.
The plan for the re-cutting of the MM would have to show a major economic/social/financial benefit, to more than one party, as part of the submission.
The days of just roaring out there and ripping into substantial land-altering projects, with no reference to anyone, are long gone.
I strongly suspect the bloke who most likely carried out the MM project (Bardius Goldberg), was of the "old-school", "bugger-the-laws" type - but even in 1998, he ensured the ownership of his "workmanship" was shrouded in mystery, to ensure he wouldn't face likely retribution, on more than one level.
Firstly, the MM was created without any reference to them. As far as I know, no-one has carried out any research or logged any Aboriginal Sacred Sites in the area covered by MM.
You can laugh or sneer at Aboriginal Sacred Site claims, but they are a recognised part of our development, legal, and claims systems today, and they have to be considered when any development work is undertaken.
The Aborigines would want to know how they could benefit from a giant marking that has effectively defaced their land, according to them.
They can fence off Aboriginal lands that possess sought-after attractive features (i.e., Uluru) for ground visitors/tourists - and charge entry fees to provide them with income - but they would say they have no way of extracting income from aerial viewing of what they would consider to be, a "white mans mark" on their land.
From my research, it appears a very deep and wide cut was made in the soil, a depth varying from 20-35cms, according to on-site reports - and up to 40 metres wide.
A cut that deep creates erosion problems, and concentrated runoff during heavy rain events, in places where major runoff would not have previously occurred.
All development and exploration work today comes with strict orders with regard to pollution, runoff control, re-vegetation of disturbed areas, and intensive protection of native flora and fauna.
For the MM to be re-cut - firstly, Aboriginal owner approval would be needed, sacred sites identified, and plans then submitted to the governing land protection authorities, showing how all of the previously-mentioned items would be addressed to meet all the current legislative requirements.
The plan for the re-cutting of the MM would have to show a major economic/social/financial benefit, to more than one party, as part of the submission.
The days of just roaring out there and ripping into substantial land-altering projects, with no reference to anyone, are long gone.
I strongly suspect the bloke who most likely carried out the MM project (Bardius Goldberg), was of the "old-school", "bugger-the-laws" type - but even in 1998, he ensured the ownership of his "workmanship" was shrouded in mystery, to ensure he wouldn't face likely retribution, on more than one level.
Thread Starter
Marree Man appears to have been formed by a tractor towing a standard farm scarifer.
The grooves were only inches deep and the fact that it has now nearly disappeared after 16 years shows that this type of construction does not have long term effects.
There have been very heavy rainfalls and no measurable erosion.
At one stage the local landowners were interested in getting a a strip graded in close to the Oodnadatta Track and the planehenge sculpture park so they could take tourists to visit the site for a reasonable fee.
Now that would be a great income creating idea so it will probably be stopped by the change resistors.
The grooves were only inches deep and the fact that it has now nearly disappeared after 16 years shows that this type of construction does not have long term effects.
There have been very heavy rainfalls and no measurable erosion.
At one stage the local landowners were interested in getting a a strip graded in close to the Oodnadatta Track and the planehenge sculpture park so they could take tourists to visit the site for a reasonable fee.
Now that would be a great income creating idea so it will probably be stopped by the change resistors.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
onetrack I was not sneering at the Aboriginal title or sacred sites legislation and any support I would give to Marree Man reinstatement is dependent on their support for it. I am sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Stationair8 I think it qualified as male given the appendage that it had.
Stationair8 I think it qualified as male given the appendage that it had.
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: eastcoastoz
Age: 76
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick,
Only inches deep?
I'd never looked at it from ground-level.
It must have been one cluey operator who'd worked out that he could pull a stunt of that magnitude.
PLovett,
He doesn't appear to be excited, so I think it'll be PC cool.
Only inches deep?
I'd never looked at it from ground-level.
It must have been one cluey operator who'd worked out that he could pull a stunt of that magnitude.
PLovett,
He doesn't appear to be excited, so I think it'll be PC cool.
Hold on. The local mine has received permission to upgrade their 29k long bore pipe with a huge trench going past the Marree Man site.
The local Aborigional land owners have told me they would like to see it re instated to bring tourists and jobs to the area.
I like the idea as it would assist the GA industry.
Then again you are probably correct. One law for wealthy mining companies while the first Australians have no say!
The local Aborigional land owners have told me they would like to see it re instated to bring tourists and jobs to the area.
I like the idea as it would assist the GA industry.
Then again you are probably correct. One law for wealthy mining companies while the first Australians have no say!
Reinstating it wouldn't bring any more tourists to the area than what there are now. I can remember back to when it was first discovered, it was just an extra thing to see when people were going up to have look at the lake. Apart from that no-one was even remotely interested in it. It wouldn't bring any more jobs either, nor would it assist the GA industry.
DF.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Marree Man is nothing more than the equivalent of a crop circle on Aboriginal Lands.
The attitude of the originators of these works is identical - produce a supposedly-awe-inspiring etching visible from the air, and create a huge mystery over the origin of the work.
However, their efforts basically involve the defacing and destruction of other peoples property and flora or crops, without any reference to, or approval from, the land/crop owners.
There's nothing clever or smart or ingenious about it - unlike the ancient civilisation etchings visible from the air.
In todays world of GPS-guided machines, and a myriad of powered mechanical devices, anyone can carry out these works with little effort.
It's essentially graffiti on a large scale, and it has little redeeming value, either in artistic merit, or value to the landowners. There must be a multitude of other methods that help the Aboriginals to become more self-sufficient, and to assist the aviation fraternity and industry, rather than brightening up some unwanted large-scale graffiti.
The attitude of the originators of these works is identical - produce a supposedly-awe-inspiring etching visible from the air, and create a huge mystery over the origin of the work.
However, their efforts basically involve the defacing and destruction of other peoples property and flora or crops, without any reference to, or approval from, the land/crop owners.
There's nothing clever or smart or ingenious about it - unlike the ancient civilisation etchings visible from the air.
In todays world of GPS-guided machines, and a myriad of powered mechanical devices, anyone can carry out these works with little effort.
It's essentially graffiti on a large scale, and it has little redeeming value, either in artistic merit, or value to the landowners. There must be a multitude of other methods that help the Aboriginals to become more self-sufficient, and to assist the aviation fraternity and industry, rather than brightening up some unwanted large-scale graffiti.
Gawd, nothing gets quite so wound up as a bunch of whitefellas, debating what can, should, probably did (etc.) happen on Aboriginal land.
A simple bloke like me is still trying to work out why an indelible stain on the countryside, this bringer of erosion and pestilence, has virtually disappeared in less than 20 years, so I won't get into that debate.
A simple bloke like me is still trying to work out why an indelible stain on the countryside, this bringer of erosion and pestilence, has virtually disappeared in less than 20 years, so I won't get into that debate.