Logging long-haul flying as an SO
Originally Posted by ADFUS
I take it you recently started as a cadet SO on a 787?
I think his handle "F50BNE" would point in another direction.
I think his handle "F50BNE" would point in another direction.
There could be an operater that uses SOs on a Fokker 50 in Australia based in Brisbane. I bet they earn top dollar too.
I bet they trained them on C209s, an amazing aeroplane.
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Whilst not in the CASA documentation this is how it's done in EASA land.
The holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time during which he or she is the PIC
Cruise relief co-pilot flight time:a cruise relief co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot when occupying a pilot’s seat;
The holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time during which he or she is the PIC
Cruise relief co-pilot flight time:a cruise relief co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot when occupying a pilot’s seat;
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Wow, no wonder there are so many pilots in the top end of experience with huge amount of hours, all the SO are logging time even when not in a pilots seat.
F50BNE.
I can only repeat, read and understand you company manuals/approvals and your applicable NAA rules ---- and in the event of any lack of clear definition, get a written determination from your NAA.
Sundry posts here of personal experiences/recollections/practices are of no use to you, you must have the legally enforceable facts.
The amount of messing around with something as simple as logging flight, in Australia, borders on the unbelievable, and largely stems from being a dweller in the anally fixated Aviation Galapagos that is Australia.
Tootle pip!!
I can only repeat, read and understand you company manuals/approvals and your applicable NAA rules ---- and in the event of any lack of clear definition, get a written determination from your NAA.
Sundry posts here of personal experiences/recollections/practices are of no use to you, you must have the legally enforceable facts.
The amount of messing around with something as simple as logging flight, in Australia, borders on the unbelievable, and largely stems from being a dweller in the anally fixated Aviation Galapagos that is Australia.
Tootle pip!!
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Thanks, I'll chase it up with the NAA which unfortunately happens to be CASA so we'll see how that goes.
No, not QF 78 as has been alluded to. I dare say if it was, there'd be a little more internal guidance.
No, not QF 78 as has been alluded to. I dare say if it was, there'd be a little more internal guidance.
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Personally I can't see how you can log anything unless you occupy the seat. Thats got to be common sense. For your own sense of what you've actually done, riding around in a horizontal position reading superman comics (or worse) doesn't count! The only exception being the PIC of course.
SN
SN
Personally I can't see how you can log anything unless you occupy the seat. Thats got to be common sense. For your own sense of what you've actually done, riding around in a horizontal position reading superman comics (or worse) doesn't count! The only exception being the PIC of course.
Personally I can't see how you can log anything unless you occupy the seat
Thats got to be common sense.
If that is the case, when the Captain is having some time off. I guess the F/O can log the time as Pilot in Command??
Why is the Captain an exception?? You should be quite specific about legislating "exceptions", wouldn't want anybody logging hours, to which they are "entitled", would we.
ICAO Annex 1 doesn't mention exceptions.
Should the F/O log "P2 in command", maybe.
Just about every aircraft is now certified two pilot, so how would you like to recognise a (company) requirement for additional pilots to be on the flight deck for "extra eyes", during arrival and departure, climb and descent -- and have different rules for logging where the company FCOM doesn't have a specific requirement, or vary it, depending on the use the individual PIC makes of additional crew.
Make it really complicated, with vast new "regulations" and lots of enforceable definitions, and, of course, audit the whole lot, with a bunch of of new "strict liability criminal offences" --- so very Australian, bureaucratic to the nth degree, and having absolutely no bleeding relationship to aviation safety outcomes.
The thing about "common sense" is that it is so uncommon.
The whole fallacy of these very precious and anal "Australian" arguments about logging time, is that a log book is a record of experience, but the value of the experience, the measure of "experience" in not only the hours count.
When I look at the log book of a potential recruit, what I see is what he/she has done, where he/she has been, and the case of very long range flights, on which they have been a crew member, it is of far more significance that they have done it, than whether they log Singapore -London and 7 hours S/O-P3, or Singapore- London and log 14 hours S/O-P3.
As to any "promotional criteria", what about competency standards?? Isn't competency what really counts.
Tootle pip!!
