Deal-breaker differences between AvPlan and OzRunways
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Deal-breaker differences between AvPlan and OzRunways
With new iPad mini II in hand and trial versions of both EFBs, I thought I'd note some of the differences and ask for other experiences. I've only been running them side-by-side for a couple of weeks and haven't explored all functions, but at some point I will need to purchase a subscription.
So, which would you buy and why?
The most important difference I've found so far has been a simple phone number: AvPlan has one and OzRunways doesn't.
Call me old-skool, but when I need technical help, I like to be able to talk to someone in person. I'm all for reading up on manuals, but I don't have time to interpret obscure/technical references or sustain a lengthy email conversation.
AvPlan have so far been very good on the phone (even returning calls), whilst OzRunways' email system has been a bit hit-and-miss. Even live chat would be better than email support, as there are invariably follow-up questions. Some responses to OzRunways queries have been quick (next day), whilst others have taken a few days (with a little prompting).
Has anyone fared better?
As far as tutorials are concerned, again, I prefer AvPlan's detailed manual with index to OzRunways' multiple subject/slideshow presentation (which can be hard to navigate when looking for detailed info). The slideshow is probably easier for getting the basics up and running, but after that it can be a bit frustrating.
Intuitively, I've found AvPlan easier to navigate than OzRunways. But that was after playing with OzRunways first. If it were the other way around, I may have felt differently. Even then, there are some pretty obscure navigation pages in AvPlan that are easier to find in OzRunways. But, on the whole, AvPlan just seems to make a bit more sense when navigating. The "lifebuoy" icon - which provides a cloud-bubble tutorial for all the functions on screen - was very useful when starting up.
Having the flight plan next to the moving map - with the ability to toggle it on and off - is one of my favourite AvPlan features.
Graphics-wise, again I generally prefer AvPlan's moving map and aircraft/plotting/tracking icons, as it's a bit cleaner and I like the clear 10nm/25nm aircraft ring option (on OzRunways, the 10nm ring is a bit thick and fuzzy) and predicted track lines.
Airports and ALAs are definitely easier (larger, clearer) to see on OzRunways and the moving maps do seem to be more complete, with a lot of new airports that aren't on some of WACs clearly marked.
Avplan's MegaVFR is more seemless than OzRunways' Hybrid VFR (especially when zooming in and out), but the landing areas aren't as prominent and I wish there was an option to increase the font size a little - especially on the iPad mini.
AvPlan rendering seems to be a little slower than OzRunways at times, but is a bit smoother.
It may be that AvPlan is a more complex program and this might explain the lag at times, but anecdotally it seems to have better battery life. AvPlan has the option to run the GPS in the background and automatically fades the screen when not in use. If OzRunways has this function, then I haven't found it, as it needs to be physically put to sleep. In fact, OzRunways appears to override my iPad's screen settings and won't allow it to sleep if the program is open.
EDIT: I've learned AvPlan does have the ability to record a fix (GPS coordinates) when you fly over and point to it on the map, though it is a two-step process, unlike OzRunways that allows you to drop a pin anywhere on the map with one click (dedicated "Drop Pin" icon top right). This is invaluable for search-and-rescue and handy for other pilots.
Maybe it's me, but I haven't been able to find a way to email individual track histories with OzRunways, whereas AvPlans lets you select them individually.
So far, most of the differences I've noted have been down to personal preference, but there are a couple of deal-breakers, IMO.
OzRunways has not crashed on me since I've been trialling it.
AvPlan has crashed more times than I have counted. (It's just done it again as I sit here writing this!). At first I thought it was my fault - hitting the wrong button in-flight etc - but once I had the iPad in my lap at home, I noticed at times it would just crash for no apparent reason.
A couple more bugs I've experienced in AvPlans - apart from the occasional hang-up - are aerodrome charts being loaded incorrectly (click on an aerodrome, then swipe for the charts - it goes to the previously selected aerodrome's charts instead of the new one), and flightplans/tracks being overwritten on top of each other.
In one case, AvPlans merged two flight plans and their associated tracks, and when I went to delete the unwanted tracks by selecting the correct track and aerodrome names, it deleted the ones I wanted to keep which were nowhere near my fingers and had different names!
Battery life may be a deal-breaker for me, but so is stability; much as I want to like AvPlan - it's smoother, slicker and appears to have more of the functions that I need - OzRunways has so far been more stable.
That may be because I've gravitated more towards AvPlan and have used it more lately - increasing my chances of finding bugs. Likewise, OzRunways may be more functional than I'm giving it credit for.
I say all this based on the trials - I haven't used the subscription versions yet - so I'm keen to hear from those who have.
Price-wise, there's not much in it: OzRunways VFR with AOPA airfield and touring guide is about $150; AvPlan VFR with the Country Airstrip Guide is about $160.
I hope this hasn't been too self-indulgent, but it's crunch time and this post is not only helping me reconcile which EFB to go with, but I'm hoping will also open a little debate to help myself and others in future.
So, which would you buy and why?
The most important difference I've found so far has been a simple phone number: AvPlan has one and OzRunways doesn't.
Call me old-skool, but when I need technical help, I like to be able to talk to someone in person. I'm all for reading up on manuals, but I don't have time to interpret obscure/technical references or sustain a lengthy email conversation.
AvPlan have so far been very good on the phone (even returning calls), whilst OzRunways' email system has been a bit hit-and-miss. Even live chat would be better than email support, as there are invariably follow-up questions. Some responses to OzRunways queries have been quick (next day), whilst others have taken a few days (with a little prompting).
Has anyone fared better?
As far as tutorials are concerned, again, I prefer AvPlan's detailed manual with index to OzRunways' multiple subject/slideshow presentation (which can be hard to navigate when looking for detailed info). The slideshow is probably easier for getting the basics up and running, but after that it can be a bit frustrating.
Intuitively, I've found AvPlan easier to navigate than OzRunways. But that was after playing with OzRunways first. If it were the other way around, I may have felt differently. Even then, there are some pretty obscure navigation pages in AvPlan that are easier to find in OzRunways. But, on the whole, AvPlan just seems to make a bit more sense when navigating. The "lifebuoy" icon - which provides a cloud-bubble tutorial for all the functions on screen - was very useful when starting up.
Having the flight plan next to the moving map - with the ability to toggle it on and off - is one of my favourite AvPlan features.
Graphics-wise, again I generally prefer AvPlan's moving map and aircraft/plotting/tracking icons, as it's a bit cleaner and I like the clear 10nm/25nm aircraft ring option (on OzRunways, the 10nm ring is a bit thick and fuzzy) and predicted track lines.
Airports and ALAs are definitely easier (larger, clearer) to see on OzRunways and the moving maps do seem to be more complete, with a lot of new airports that aren't on some of WACs clearly marked.
Avplan's MegaVFR is more seemless than OzRunways' Hybrid VFR (especially when zooming in and out), but the landing areas aren't as prominent and I wish there was an option to increase the font size a little - especially on the iPad mini.
AvPlan rendering seems to be a little slower than OzRunways at times, but is a bit smoother.
It may be that AvPlan is a more complex program and this might explain the lag at times, but anecdotally it seems to have better battery life. AvPlan has the option to run the GPS in the background and automatically fades the screen when not in use. If OzRunways has this function, then I haven't found it, as it needs to be physically put to sleep. In fact, OzRunways appears to override my iPad's screen settings and won't allow it to sleep if the program is open.
EDIT: I've learned AvPlan does have the ability to record a fix (GPS coordinates) when you fly over and point to it on the map, though it is a two-step process, unlike OzRunways that allows you to drop a pin anywhere on the map with one click (dedicated "Drop Pin" icon top right). This is invaluable for search-and-rescue and handy for other pilots.
Maybe it's me, but I haven't been able to find a way to email individual track histories with OzRunways, whereas AvPlans lets you select them individually.
So far, most of the differences I've noted have been down to personal preference, but there are a couple of deal-breakers, IMO.
OzRunways has not crashed on me since I've been trialling it.
AvPlan has crashed more times than I have counted. (It's just done it again as I sit here writing this!). At first I thought it was my fault - hitting the wrong button in-flight etc - but once I had the iPad in my lap at home, I noticed at times it would just crash for no apparent reason.
A couple more bugs I've experienced in AvPlans - apart from the occasional hang-up - are aerodrome charts being loaded incorrectly (click on an aerodrome, then swipe for the charts - it goes to the previously selected aerodrome's charts instead of the new one), and flightplans/tracks being overwritten on top of each other.
In one case, AvPlans merged two flight plans and their associated tracks, and when I went to delete the unwanted tracks by selecting the correct track and aerodrome names, it deleted the ones I wanted to keep which were nowhere near my fingers and had different names!
Battery life may be a deal-breaker for me, but so is stability; much as I want to like AvPlan - it's smoother, slicker and appears to have more of the functions that I need - OzRunways has so far been more stable.
That may be because I've gravitated more towards AvPlan and have used it more lately - increasing my chances of finding bugs. Likewise, OzRunways may be more functional than I'm giving it credit for.
I say all this based on the trials - I haven't used the subscription versions yet - so I'm keen to hear from those who have.
Price-wise, there's not much in it: OzRunways VFR with AOPA airfield and touring guide is about $150; AvPlan VFR with the Country Airstrip Guide is about $160.
I hope this hasn't been too self-indulgent, but it's crunch time and this post is not only helping me reconcile which EFB to go with, but I'm hoping will also open a little debate to help myself and others in future.
Last edited by Virtually There; 2nd Aug 2015 at 04:55. Reason: Discovered pin-drop function in AvPlan
A flashy produc that crashes when you're using it might as well not be used at all.
Having used both, I now use OzRunways exclusively, due to the stability issues you've experienced yourself. I have managed to crash OzRunways once or twice in the years I've owned it, but it is light years ahead of AvPlan in that regard.
For tech support, I have asked a couple of questions here on Prune and that's been it. I haven't needed to contact OzRunways offline at all, and they're quite responsive to their thread here, so for me that has been sufficient.
Having used both, I now use OzRunways exclusively, due to the stability issues you've experienced yourself. I have managed to crash OzRunways once or twice in the years I've owned it, but it is light years ahead of AvPlan in that regard.
For tech support, I have asked a couple of questions here on Prune and that's been it. I haven't needed to contact OzRunways offline at all, and they're quite responsive to their thread here, so for me that has been sufficient.
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I have both…..
Either can let you down, so for IFR ops we use two iPads with two suites.
Pretty unlikely to ever get let down.
Buying both is still cheeper than the old paper method.
Either can let you down, so for IFR ops we use two iPads with two suites.
Pretty unlikely to ever get let down.
Buying both is still cheeper than the old paper method.
I don't think there is a deal breaker, its a matter of personal opinion. I had both for ages, then in a fit of budget induced cost cutting one had to go. It was a difficult choice. Both companies produce exceptional products, both companies provide great service, both companies regularly post on this forum and I hope both companies prosper.
Which one did I choose? Personally, I use neither in flight but prefer the stone age reliability and compact size of my Garmin 495. The ipad stays in the flight bag and I look out the window. The Garmin tells me all I need to know.
Which one did I choose? Personally, I use neither in flight but prefer the stone age reliability and compact size of my Garmin 495. The ipad stays in the flight bag and I look out the window. The Garmin tells me all I need to know.
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I have used both and found stability issues with both of them when you had certain applications running in the background. So before using them in anger double tap the home button and swipe up on all the other applications. 
From a UI perspective AVPlan does win out over OZRunways.
On practicing IFR flying at home on a sim, OZR wins out over AVP.
One feature that drew me straight to AVP for VFR flying was the ability to tap on a Restricted area and getting status information back in an instant.
Both are brilliant products and neither will disappoint you if you invested your hard earned money on them.
From a UI perspective AVPlan does win out over OZRunways.
On practicing IFR flying at home on a sim, OZR wins out over AVP.
One feature that drew me straight to AVP for VFR flying was the ability to tap on a Restricted area and getting status information back in an instant.
Both are brilliant products and neither will disappoint you if you invested your hard earned money on them.
I use Ozrunways - that is I use the simple parts of it I can understand. The fuel and flight planning and anything outside range and bearing, ETA, ETE and suchlike I can't use because I can't seem to audit on screen and satisfy myself that the numbers are correct.
This is a common problem with applications : its called "featureitis" - more and more functionality gets crammed into the App - making it too complex for mere mortals who are not "power users" in computer parlance.
One of the cures is to find some simple pilots who have not yet been exposed to the App and get them to write a manual from scratch.
This is why some japanese factory car maintenance and repair manuals are so good - the factory literally makes their engineering apprentices write it.
This is a common problem with applications : its called "featureitis" - more and more functionality gets crammed into the App - making it too complex for mere mortals who are not "power users" in computer parlance.
One of the cures is to find some simple pilots who have not yet been exposed to the App and get them to write a manual from scratch.
This is why some japanese factory car maintenance and repair manuals are so good - the factory literally makes their engineering apprentices write it.
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I got an email last week saying ozrunways are the first and only efb in the world that do traffic on the ipad.
The downside is some folk would become fixated on the screen and not out the front once they have seen the potential threat, missing the four others that were closer.
Good idea but don't stop there Jabba... Traffic from each of the products Oz and Av, plus ADSB plus Mode C from the web. That would catch most of the traffic but not all. Primary paints from radar would be good also. But.... It all relies on 3/4G unless you are using an ADSB receiver.
If only we had a simple system like a fully functioning government subsidized GPS position based system with a cost effective display system that can be easily and cheaply fitted to all aircraft. Let's call it ADSB !
If only we had a simple system like a fully functioning government subsidized GPS position based system with a cost effective display system that can be easily and cheaply fitted to all aircraft. Let's call it ADSB !
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Originally Posted by Jabawocky
I have both…..
Either can let you down, so for IFR ops we use two iPads with two suites.
Pretty unlikely to ever get let down.
Buying both is still cheeper than the old paper method.
Either can let you down, so for IFR ops we use two iPads with two suites.
Pretty unlikely to ever get let down.
Buying both is still cheeper than the old paper method.
I will always carry paper maps with me - because you never know (even though the plane has a GPS, my phone has a GPS, my iPad has a GPS . . .) - while these days I just print out the relevant charts I need from NAIPS to save paper and money. But it's a shame mobile phones don't count as back-up, as many have 5"-6" screens, which is plenty big enough to read a weather update, aerodrome chart or moving map. I also use my phone for W&B and fuel calculations.
The reason Av-vs-Oz is a difficult choice is because they are both great programs and both do what I need. OzRunways seems to have better marketing, which is why I started using it first, but once I downloaded AvPlan I just found myself using it more and more - hence why I've probably had a few more niggles with it than OzRunways.
It's a bit like iOS-v-Android: I've always been a Mac man because they are rock-solid compared to PCs. But I prefer Android to iOS because it feels more intuitive and is more customisable. However, all Android systems I've used have had bugs whilst all the iPhones I've had have been very stable. Yet I still own an Android phone and put up with the issues for the user experience - go figure!
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Just an update to this, it turns out the AvPlan "crashes" were iOS shutting the program down whilst in background tracking mode. A couple of phone calls and some emailed datalogs and the issue is apparently set to be resolved with an update in the next week or so.
For me at least, having a tech-support phone number and someone to talk to has made a big difference to my experience and seems to have been beneficial to both parties. Other than that, the two EFBs are pretty hard to separate. AvPlan does have the Country Airstrip Guide, though, which is useful.
For me at least, having a tech-support phone number and someone to talk to has made a big difference to my experience and seems to have been beneficial to both parties. Other than that, the two EFBs are pretty hard to separate. AvPlan does have the Country Airstrip Guide, though, which is useful.
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Have gone with Avplan purely from a service point of view as Virtually there mentioned.
I could not see much difference between the programs but when I wanted to ring someone to discuss my potential purchase as I would do with anything else, no one was home at Oz Runways!
Remember getting an email response from some kid I presume advising me to ring on such and such a number after 4pm. Did this and left a message and still waiting, six months ago.
Avplan seem to have someone answer their phone and will ring you back if the right person is not there.
Am sure if you are a young tech savvy type oz r will be fine, but if you wish to speak to a person and have some after sales service, then Avplan is your preference.
In my opinion service is the main selling point on most products/purchases, but each to their own.
I could not see much difference between the programs but when I wanted to ring someone to discuss my potential purchase as I would do with anything else, no one was home at Oz Runways!
Remember getting an email response from some kid I presume advising me to ring on such and such a number after 4pm. Did this and left a message and still waiting, six months ago.
Avplan seem to have someone answer their phone and will ring you back if the right person is not there.
Am sure if you are a young tech savvy type oz r will be fine, but if you wish to speak to a person and have some after sales service, then Avplan is your preference.
In my opinion service is the main selling point on most products/purchases, but each to their own.
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FWIW I haven't tried Avplan yet but as an NZ based air nav pro user trialling Ozrunways I find Ozrunways more intuitive, faster loading & responding to commands & more stable
Received a response to an emailed question over the weekend, no problem with customer service there
Received a response to an emailed question over the weekend, no problem with customer service there
There's a lot of questions on here about support and phones.
With OzRunways, the first line of support is our help.ozrunways.com or [email protected] email/ticket system. We can normally answer about 90% of problems within a couple of hours, often within minutes. If it needs a phone call to sort out, our dedicated support guy Dean can give you a call back. He is normally on the phone most of the day and spends 30-60 minutes with each person.
Simply put, remember you are paying around $100 per *year* and after expensive data and developer costs, there isn't room to employ a full on 24hr call centre. Talking to Dean for an hour has probably reduced our profit to $0 but we're happy to do it to maintain a good reputation. It's simply faster for you and us to send through a problem via email so we can fix it immediately then call if appropriate.
We also have a multitude of documentation and resources to work through at your own pace here:
- 'OzRunways the book' on the iBook store
- PDF's and tutorial videos here: http://help.ozrunways.com/kb/getting-started/ozrunways-documentation
- Live support/talks at many airshows, fly ins and club weekends.
At OzRunways we consider our support excellent and I often reply to emails 10pm on a weekend - you don't get that from your phone company!
With OzRunways, the first line of support is our help.ozrunways.com or [email protected] email/ticket system. We can normally answer about 90% of problems within a couple of hours, often within minutes. If it needs a phone call to sort out, our dedicated support guy Dean can give you a call back. He is normally on the phone most of the day and spends 30-60 minutes with each person.
Simply put, remember you are paying around $100 per *year* and after expensive data and developer costs, there isn't room to employ a full on 24hr call centre. Talking to Dean for an hour has probably reduced our profit to $0 but we're happy to do it to maintain a good reputation. It's simply faster for you and us to send through a problem via email so we can fix it immediately then call if appropriate.
We also have a multitude of documentation and resources to work through at your own pace here:
- 'OzRunways the book' on the iBook store
- PDF's and tutorial videos here: http://help.ozrunways.com/kb/getting-started/ozrunways-documentation
- Live support/talks at many airshows, fly ins and club weekends.
At OzRunways we consider our support excellent and I often reply to emails 10pm on a weekend - you don't get that from your phone company!
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When you think about it, 5 minutes on the phone can save more time (and money) than a bunch of emails. Especially with follow-up questions on the same subject. I don't think you need a dedicated call centre - just a phone number during office hours.
You might only make $100 a year, but if - after sorting out a few teething problems - you have made a life-long customer who subscribes year after year, has it not been worth the initial contact? Do you really measure your bottom line in terms of hours instead of years?
Initially I was under the impression the OzRunways "Discussion" page was a live chat session. But it wasn't, and there was no confirmation email (or any other proof) that my query had been lodged. After two days of no response, I was left wondering what to do next.
In the end, I figured it out myself (it wasn't covered in the manuals).
It's a fine product - don't get me wrong - but I just feel that point of contact would have made all the difference to my initial OzRunways experience (instead of: "Here's the manual - figure it out yourself"). That's just my feedback. Others may disagree.
You might only make $100 a year, but if - after sorting out a few teething problems - you have made a life-long customer who subscribes year after year, has it not been worth the initial contact? Do you really measure your bottom line in terms of hours instead of years?
Initially I was under the impression the OzRunways "Discussion" page was a live chat session. But it wasn't, and there was no confirmation email (or any other proof) that my query had been lodged. After two days of no response, I was left wondering what to do next.
In the end, I figured it out myself (it wasn't covered in the manuals).
It's a fine product - don't get me wrong - but I just feel that point of contact would have made all the difference to my initial OzRunways experience (instead of: "Here's the manual - figure it out yourself"). That's just my feedback. Others may disagree.
I don't think there are any "deal breakers" to decide between the two.
I started with OZRunways relatively early and had trouble with it losing GPS integrity and not telling me. I sent them a number of screen shots of OZrunways showing my aircraft going in a completely different direction than it was.
But now (I think) most of us use external GPS bluetooth units which deals with this issue (and OzRunways may have dealt with this issue). For me the problem occurred repeatably in the low flight levels on route to Mildura near ASWAN.
I changed to AvPlan after these issues, but mainly because (at the time) AvPlan dealt with multi leg flight plans better and I thought was better oriented toward IFR pilots.
I also prefer AvPlans aircraft performance setup and the ability to programme different performance levels depending on altitude and power settings. I like its W&B section too.
I though Ozrunways was a more intuitive programme for point to point VFR flights.
But, the reality is that they are playing a leapfrog race and at any point in time one might have an edge on the other.
I've had cause to call AvPlan a number of times and find them an absolute delight to deal with and Bevan is very accessible to talk about future improvements, change wishlists, etc.
I moved from OzRunways to AvPlan and will stick with them, but I think its a personal preference thing.
The harder decision, frankly is whether or not to keep Jeppesen charts. The last 2 years I have agonised then renewed Jepp as well as Avplan. The Jepp charts are head & shoulders better than Airservices. The question is - how much is it worth above the simplicity of only having one programme.
I started with OZRunways relatively early and had trouble with it losing GPS integrity and not telling me. I sent them a number of screen shots of OZrunways showing my aircraft going in a completely different direction than it was.
But now (I think) most of us use external GPS bluetooth units which deals with this issue (and OzRunways may have dealt with this issue). For me the problem occurred repeatably in the low flight levels on route to Mildura near ASWAN.
I changed to AvPlan after these issues, but mainly because (at the time) AvPlan dealt with multi leg flight plans better and I thought was better oriented toward IFR pilots.
I also prefer AvPlans aircraft performance setup and the ability to programme different performance levels depending on altitude and power settings. I like its W&B section too.
I though Ozrunways was a more intuitive programme for point to point VFR flights.
But, the reality is that they are playing a leapfrog race and at any point in time one might have an edge on the other.
I've had cause to call AvPlan a number of times and find them an absolute delight to deal with and Bevan is very accessible to talk about future improvements, change wishlists, etc.
I moved from OzRunways to AvPlan and will stick with them, but I think its a personal preference thing.
The harder decision, frankly is whether or not to keep Jeppesen charts. The last 2 years I have agonised then renewed Jepp as well as Avplan. The Jepp charts are head & shoulders better than Airservices. The question is - how much is it worth above the simplicity of only having one programme.
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Akro is pretty much in line with my experience. Just takes him a little longer to get there 
I have ditched Jepp in paper and Jeppview, no more, and I have learned to live with the DAPs so the only Jepp subscription i have now is the GTN750 data.
I do believe in two apps, so i run Avplan and OzRunways and as pointed out above the point and shoot of OzRunways is easier. But the IFR use, planning and so forth the Avplan is better.
Why do I use two……..I think I have said this before, but when one stuffs up, or you have stuffed up, another app is rather nice to have for the extra few bucks.
Support both.
I have ditched Jepp in paper and Jeppview, no more, and I have learned to live with the DAPs so the only Jepp subscription i have now is the GTN750 data.
I do believe in two apps, so i run Avplan and OzRunways and as pointed out above the point and shoot of OzRunways is easier. But the IFR use, planning and so forth the Avplan is better.
Why do I use two……..I think I have said this before, but when one stuffs up, or you have stuffed up, another app is rather nice to have for the extra few bucks.
Support both.
That right there ^^^^^^^ is the voice of reason.
When you live....
The other upcoming is the Windows surface. I like my iPad and iPhone but less so than when they were new and novel.
The Windows surface looks to me to be the next game-changer for the business oriented community - it will be my next 'laptop' for sure.
AvPlan say they're working on a Surface Pro compatible version - would be awesome if they manage it. My iPad will likely be relegated to the kids at that point.
The Windows surface looks to me to be the next game-changer for the business oriented community - it will be my next 'laptop' for sure.
AvPlan say they're working on a Surface Pro compatible version - would be awesome if they manage it. My iPad will likely be relegated to the kids at that point.