What do you have to do to get a clearance these days?
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What do you have to do to get a clearance these days?
Today was a perfect day for flying. Light winds, and barely a cloud in the sky.
While I was out and about I heard 3 aircraft in an hour requesting clearance through Melbourne CTA. They all sounded like training flights, I suspect from Moorabbin.
One requested transit via Melbourne at 7500.
The others requested clearance to Moorabbin from I think Bendigo and Castlemaine, can't remember the altitudes but they were 6000+.
All were told "Clearance not available". A couple of them sounded kind of surprised.
Is it really so busy on a Saturday afternoon that 7500 over Melbourne is impossible? Or that there is no possible way to transit controlled airspace from north west of Melbourne to Moorabbin (I suspect they would have accepted 9500 at a pinch)?
Is Melbourne CTA now effectively closed to VFR aircraft? Or what do you have to do to get a clearance?
While I was out and about I heard 3 aircraft in an hour requesting clearance through Melbourne CTA. They all sounded like training flights, I suspect from Moorabbin.
One requested transit via Melbourne at 7500.
The others requested clearance to Moorabbin from I think Bendigo and Castlemaine, can't remember the altitudes but they were 6000+.
All were told "Clearance not available". A couple of them sounded kind of surprised.
Is it really so busy on a Saturday afternoon that 7500 over Melbourne is impossible? Or that there is no possible way to transit controlled airspace from north west of Melbourne to Moorabbin (I suspect they would have accepted 9500 at a pinch)?
Is Melbourne CTA now effectively closed to VFR aircraft? Or what do you have to do to get a clearance?
AirNoServices Australia
It's ok, once we've all spent about 25-50% of our Aircrafts worth on upgrading to ADS-B everyone will be so out of pocket that no one will be flying and there will be HEAPS of space available!
Haven't asked for a clearance for a couple of months, however very surprised to hear that Bendigo direct Moorabbin got knocked back as it's almost directly over the top and usually slots in easily. I find my best chances for a clearance are to align myself prior to the request so as to put myself directly over YMEL. You've got me thinking that if I get knocked back in the future I might ask if I can do something like Bendigo - Avalon - Moorabbin; that might work and would still be quicker especially with the usual westerly up top.
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9 Pm, sunday night, Bankstown airport, plan submitted to depart YSBK D zone into C and head over the top of Richmond for Dubbo... waited at holding point to runway 11C for 20 FRIGGIN MINUTES waiting for a clearance to depart, all we heard at YSSY was 1 flight outbound to the east, and another 50 miles north. sure enough, we waited until the controller had the inbound flight on the ground at YSS before we got our clearance... 
Folks,
As has been said to me on more than one occasion, including a conference in ASA's headquarters in Can'tberra, re. VFR traffic, words to the meaning: "Why should we provide a service to anybody who doesn't pay".
Tootle pip!!
As has been said to me on more than one occasion, including a conference in ASA's headquarters in Can'tberra, re. VFR traffic, words to the meaning: "Why should we provide a service to anybody who doesn't pay".
Tootle pip!!
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I had a similar issue last week. IFR from Canberra to Melbourne. Had planned sbg to YBSS. All going well until I got vectored about an extra 50miles east. Even though I was headed west. From what I could see traffic wise it would not have been an issue for me to get a few vectors around the north west. Just a bunch of lazy controllers who couldn't be bothered doing a bit of extra work. Embarrassing to see this is what it is like here. Wouldn't happen in the U.S.
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As has been said to me on more than one occasion, including a conference in ASA's headquarters in Can'tberra, re. VFR traffic, words to the meaning: "Why should we provide a service to anybody who doesn't pay".
I understand the need to control traffic around major airports. However, if a large area of airspace is to be reserved for those (hopefully) making money from commercial services, and other users excluded, you could make an argument that they should be paying for the airspace as well as ATC services.
Charge Airservices per cubic mile of class C/D below 10,000 (to be passed on to users) and see how big CTA ends up then
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"Why should we provide a service to anybody who doesn't pay".
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Always ask why the clearance is not available, then ask when will it be available! They are service providers and you are requesting a service. We have about 10% of the traffic that the USA have!
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"I had a similar issue last week. IFR from Canberra to Melbourne. Had planned sbg to YBSS."
If you had been allowed to fly this route you would have been like the bloke driving along the Monash freeway - on the wrong side of the road.
I believe that if you wish to plan on a non-published route, in CTA, you are supposed to obtain prior approval from ATC. If you get that approval then you should expect to fly the route. If the route is not approved there will be an alternative suggestion.
If you had been allowed to fly this route you would have been like the bloke driving along the Monash freeway - on the wrong side of the road.
I believe that if you wish to plan on a non-published route, in CTA, you are supposed to obtain prior approval from ATC. If you get that approval then you should expect to fly the route. If the route is not approved there will be an alternative suggestion.
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Where does it say that you have to get approval for an unpublished route? Not a good analogy anyway as there's nothing coming the other way on that route.
There is an obsession in this country with complying with rules that don't exist in the first place. So just make one up, in the name of safety of course.
There are some ATC's that make stuff happen, there are some that delight in stuffing around those that they assume pay 'nothing' for the privilege of gracing controlled airspace. Might pay some of them to do a little research on where the funding is coming from.
These scenarios don't happen in some countries that handle 10 times the traffic we do. Why's that?
There is an obsession in this country with complying with rules that don't exist in the first place. So just make one up, in the name of safety of course.
There are some ATC's that make stuff happen, there are some that delight in stuffing around those that they assume pay 'nothing' for the privilege of gracing controlled airspace. Might pay some of them to do a little research on where the funding is coming from.
These scenarios don't happen in some countries that handle 10 times the traffic we do. Why's that?
ATC are too busy trying to make all the RPT jets simulataneously speed up while slowing down, maintaining separation while keeping us all bumper to bumper and maintaining 180kts to zot miles while hoping we don't have to go around.
The whole system is stretched beyond capacity and its only going to get worse while governments allow airports and ATC to be run 20 years behind the capacity curve. Bad things are going to start happening in CTA some day, probably better off staying out of there.
The whole system is stretched beyond capacity and its only going to get worse while governments allow airports and ATC to be run 20 years behind the capacity curve. Bad things are going to start happening in CTA some day, probably better off staying out of there.
Where does it say that you have to get approval for an unpublished route?
Not a good analogy anyway as there's nothing coming the other way on that route.
Where does it say that you have to get approval for an unpublished route?
AIP ENR 1.1-41 para 20.1, 20.4
AIP ENR 1.1-41 para 20.1, 20.4
In my head it seems to work like this and has always worked well for me given that much of the traffic comes from Sydney and Brisbane.
(Slightly out of alignment but you get the drift)
How is Airservices funded? by the taxpayer? airways charges? or a combination of both? if its both, then theres no excuse.
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Squawk7700.
......given that much of the traffic comes from Sydney and Brisbane.
And much of the traffic goes to SY and BN. ML tower clears all departures to 5000. When transferred they usually get unrestricted climb to FL240 or their planned level if lower. If you plot all the SID tracks on a map with unrestricted climb to 5000 you'll see it is very difficult to get an opposite direction light aircraft through that.
Airservices receives no taxation funding. Income is derived from enroute and terminal fees.
......given that much of the traffic comes from Sydney and Brisbane.
And much of the traffic goes to SY and BN. ML tower clears all departures to 5000. When transferred they usually get unrestricted climb to FL240 or their planned level if lower. If you plot all the SID tracks on a map with unrestricted climb to 5000 you'll see it is very difficult to get an opposite direction light aircraft through that.
Airservices receives no taxation funding. Income is derived from enroute and terminal fees.