To all those looking for a new job.
Plucks, you are a brave man letting any of the current crop of newbies any where near your 185! Most of them can't do a proper crosswind landing in a Cherokee.
But as a former employer who understands these things, yes in my book 10 hours of 185 circuits would equate to 1000 hours of scenics in a 200 series.
Problem is neither insurance companies nor HR get this and I dare say some of the younger chief pilots out there would not, either.
But as a former employer who understands these things, yes in my book 10 hours of 185 circuits would equate to 1000 hours of scenics in a 200 series.
Problem is neither insurance companies nor HR get this and I dare say some of the younger chief pilots out there would not, either.
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Disappointing, but I'm sure fair points.
I am actually waiting for our beloved regulator to approve me as an Ag. Instructor (even though they have already approved the 141 school, the syllabus and the Ops manual, which has me listed as an instructor.... but that's a whole other thread). In the meantime, I thought hiring out the aircraft was a good idea, and a way I may be able to give a little back to the industry...... Without a safety pilot though, the insurance was outrageous. Or maybe not if the standard is as low as you say Mach.
Thanks for the replies.
Cheers
I am actually waiting for our beloved regulator to approve me as an Ag. Instructor (even though they have already approved the 141 school, the syllabus and the Ops manual, which has me listed as an instructor.... but that's a whole other thread). In the meantime, I thought hiring out the aircraft was a good idea, and a way I may be able to give a little back to the industry...... Without a safety pilot though, the insurance was outrageous. Or maybe not if the standard is as low as you say Mach.
Thanks for the replies.
Cheers
You really need a safety pilot mate, unless you are totally satisfied.
Mach is correct IMHO. The standard is very low out their amongst low hour pilots, unless it's documented and confirmed.
Mach is correct IMHO. The standard is very low out their amongst low hour pilots, unless it's documented and confirmed.
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Plucka there is no doubt you are right. 185 time can be golden especially around here. We dont have any Porters here but a number of other operators do and some of them start the new guys on the 185 for a few hours before progressing to the porter.
For us, with or without a safety pilot providing the pilot is left seat and actually doing the flying then we have no issue with that. It would certainly become obvious during their check flight if they have the stick and rudder skills.
For us and many operators the money spent on an initial multi rating would be much better spent on the 185 and some quality hours, mostly circuits.
Upgrade the SEIFR to a multi IFR at a later time when your actually getting paid. I cant think of many operators that will hire a 200 hours newbie straight into a multi..
Bob is right in regards to real world decision making skills but that's something we train them for.
Just my 2 cents worth though..
Andy
For us, with or without a safety pilot providing the pilot is left seat and actually doing the flying then we have no issue with that. It would certainly become obvious during their check flight if they have the stick and rudder skills.
For us and many operators the money spent on an initial multi rating would be much better spent on the 185 and some quality hours, mostly circuits.
Upgrade the SEIFR to a multi IFR at a later time when your actually getting paid. I cant think of many operators that will hire a 200 hours newbie straight into a multi..
Bob is right in regards to real world decision making skills but that's something we train them for.
Just my 2 cents worth though..
Andy
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Cheers Andy.
Thanks for the replies.
Unethical to advertise here but feel free to PM me if anyone is looking for some 185 time to make their resume stand out from the masses.
Cheers
Thanks for the replies.
Unethical to advertise here but feel free to PM me if anyone is looking for some 185 time to make their resume stand out from the masses.
Cheers
A few points... Firstly, I'm not an expert.
However, I think 10 years in GA allows me a little poetic licence in this department. We are discussing, for the most part, GA and resume's in Australia or close enough to it. Not Europe or the USA, this is in an Aussie forum. Unless you have spent a considerable amount of time in GA here, and understand what is roughly required from operators/pilots here, then feel free to take your uneducated opinion to another part of the worldly forums (I'm looking at you Porter, a Frozen ATPL was a requirement at some stage for all the major airlines, and if you don't know what one was, google it. If you did spend any time in GA here I retract my harsh words). Also 'accepting' conditions runs all the way up to the top - refer to the latest EBA threads on here.
On topic - people do get it fairly wrong, but older books like Irv Jasinski's 'Airline Pilot Interviews' encourage people to do it the wrong way (good publication though). I just helped to correct someone's resume yesterday and he removed all the crap and condensed it to 1 page.
Andy, I see your frustration but agree your first post may have come off a little harsh. GAM used to get over 50 resume's a week, if not more - and that's not even posting an ad on AFAP. They have 2 operations controllers working their ar
off (generally CPL holders hoping for a start at some stage) and it's easy to say delegate the duty of replying to every single resume, but that would require almost hiring someone just to reply to the emails.
It's also not science of the rocket. 1 page, hours, types (not C152,C152s, C152R), contact details, employment history and referees. Attached to something that says Greetings, my name is bloggs, I have 2000 hours, based in blah and would relish the opportunity to work for your company.
Keep at it lads, it's a long road at times but it'll get better.
Any other questions, I'm happy to answer on PM
Ryan Chase
However, I think 10 years in GA allows me a little poetic licence in this department. We are discussing, for the most part, GA and resume's in Australia or close enough to it. Not Europe or the USA, this is in an Aussie forum. Unless you have spent a considerable amount of time in GA here, and understand what is roughly required from operators/pilots here, then feel free to take your uneducated opinion to another part of the worldly forums (I'm looking at you Porter, a Frozen ATPL was a requirement at some stage for all the major airlines, and if you don't know what one was, google it. If you did spend any time in GA here I retract my harsh words). Also 'accepting' conditions runs all the way up to the top - refer to the latest EBA threads on here.
On topic - people do get it fairly wrong, but older books like Irv Jasinski's 'Airline Pilot Interviews' encourage people to do it the wrong way (good publication though
). I just helped to correct someone's resume yesterday and he removed all the crap and condensed it to 1 page. Andy, I see your frustration but agree your first post may have come off a little harsh. GAM used to get over 50 resume's a week, if not more - and that's not even posting an ad on AFAP. They have 2 operations controllers working their ar
off (generally CPL holders hoping for a start at some stage) and it's easy to say delegate the duty of replying to every single resume, but that would require almost hiring someone just to reply to the emails. It's also not science of the rocket. 1 page, hours, types (not C152,C152s, C152R), contact details, employment history and referees. Attached to something that says Greetings, my name is bloggs, I have 2000 hours, based in blah and would relish the opportunity to work for your company.
Keep at it lads, it's a long road at times but it'll get better.
Any other questions, I'm happy to answer on PM
Ryan Chase
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(I'm looking at you Porter, a Frozen ATPL was a requirement at some stage for all the major airlines, and if you don't know what one was, google it.
I'm Australian and have worked most of my career here. If you read my post I mentioned that I worked in the same part of the industry when Andy was in Oz. You do know he's not advertising for pilots in Australia? I don't spend the majority of my time googling.
Porter, just what you posted about the ATPL's, and your current location spelled otherwise. I'm sorry for having a stab, and take it all back. Also I may spend a little too much time googling, aaaaand I get defensive.
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Remeocharlie -
Yes you maybe right, it may have sounded harsh but i will give you an example of the hard reality.
I type this message sitting in an Internet Cafe in Nabire Papua because our new mess doesn't have internet YET, no 3G no SMS and no mobile phone signal.
Last night it took over 6 hours to download my emails and longer to send any form or reply which didnt leave my laptop until late this afternoon. I had to do this all at a different mess and leave my laptop their overnight.
We are very strict for sure but I have my reasons. The emails from yesterday were mostly text with half a dozen CVs with their associated attachments. but in total 32 emails and that was a quiet day.
I havent even been able to download todays email headers yet so i have no idea how many are waiting..
Welcome to working in Papua..
Andy
Yes you maybe right, it may have sounded harsh but i will give you an example of the hard reality.
I type this message sitting in an Internet Cafe in Nabire Papua because our new mess doesn't have internet YET, no 3G no SMS and no mobile phone signal.
Last night it took over 6 hours to download my emails and longer to send any form or reply which didnt leave my laptop until late this afternoon. I had to do this all at a different mess and leave my laptop their overnight.
We are very strict for sure but I have my reasons. The emails from yesterday were mostly text with half a dozen CVs with their associated attachments. but in total 32 emails and that was a quiet day.
I havent even been able to download todays email headers yet so i have no idea how many are waiting..
Welcome to working in Papua..
Andy
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Andy,
Keep in mind what I am about to say is in no way intended to be critical, merely suggestive to overcome to the technological challenges your location throws up.
With the internet you have a lot of power in what you receive.
Your domain will allow you multiple email addresses. Set up one that is [email protected].i want to fly for you....or similar.
You can set it that that is only ever downloaded to the office.
You can configure your email client to only check that mailbox when the office is actually closed.
If you really want, you can set your server or email client to automatically bin mails based on subject line.... i.e i want to work for you....or you can nut it down even further that it picks out keywords in the email and rejects on your behalf.
You need an IT guy to develop it for you
Keep in mind what I am about to say is in no way intended to be critical, merely suggestive to overcome to the technological challenges your location throws up.
With the internet you have a lot of power in what you receive.
Your domain will allow you multiple email addresses. Set up one that is [email protected].i want to fly for you....or similar.
You can set it that that is only ever downloaded to the office.
You can configure your email client to only check that mailbox when the office is actually closed.
If you really want, you can set your server or email client to automatically bin mails based on subject line.... i.e i want to work for you....or you can nut it down even further that it picks out keywords in the email and rejects on your behalf.
You need an IT guy to develop it for you
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Or you can have a simple size rejection on your email server. Emails larger than a certain size will just bounce back to the sender.
A one page resume with a small cover letter is only 30kB's or so.
A one page resume with a small cover letter is only 30kB's or so.
Emoloyers should stick by their own guidelines too. Don't tell everybody you need 2000 hours then go hire your mate/someelses mate/some chick you pulled last week with 500 hours. Nothing used to annoy me more than being told I wasnt experienced enough then 6 months later meeting some muppet who got a job there with less than 'minimums'.
All that does is drive the whole problem you are on here complaining about. Where people just ignore you and apply anyway
All that does is drive the whole problem you are on here complaining about. Where people just ignore you and apply anyway
Don't tell everybody you need 2000 hours then go hire your mate/someelses mate/some chick you pulled last week with 500 hours.
...sometimes the 2000 hour candidate has changed jobs every 3-6 months and has provided as referee ANYONE except their previous chief pilots....
(Not saying any of the above apply to Neville Nobody!)
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jas24zzk
Now Jas you may have just solved a lot of my issues.
I will have to think long and hard on that one as I tend to get stuck out here months at a time.
But your ideas have a lot of merit
I will have a chat to our IT guru in Jakarta when i am there next..
Thanks for the suggestion,
Andy
I will have to think long and hard on that one as I tend to get stuck out here months at a time.
But your ideas have a lot of merit
I will have a chat to our IT guru in Jakarta when i am there next..
Thanks for the suggestion,
Andy
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Andy,
If you are using an IT guru, then you can take it even further.
You could set up a job application form online, that a potential employee fills out.. so many options here, it almost boundless..
A job app form can be put to use to be almost fully automated.......i say almost fully automated because at some point you need to review the application and perhaps interview the applicant.
But you can automate it enough that applicants that don't have your minimums are actually sent a rejection email...or even taken to a page that tells them then and there they don't meet the criteria...you don't even have to tell people what the criteria is.
I'm no computer guru, but even I can code the basic framework for this..it would take me about 2 weeks part time. Knowing what needs to be done, if I was a guru working full time on it, i'd expect to see something to present to the client in 2 days maximum.
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I applied to a major insurer not so long ago for a position, and the first 3 interview stages were online and automated. No CV/Resume was submitted until stage 5, which was the first face to face.
If you are using an IT guru, then you can take it even further.
You could set up a job application form online, that a potential employee fills out.. so many options here, it almost boundless..
A job app form can be put to use to be almost fully automated.......i say almost fully automated because at some point you need to review the application and perhaps interview the applicant.
But you can automate it enough that applicants that don't have your minimums are actually sent a rejection email...or even taken to a page that tells them then and there they don't meet the criteria...you don't even have to tell people what the criteria is.
I'm no computer guru, but even I can code the basic framework for this..it would take me about 2 weeks part time. Knowing what needs to be done, if I was a guru working full time on it, i'd expect to see something to present to the client in 2 days maximum.
-------------
I applied to a major insurer not so long ago for a position, and the first 3 interview stages were online and automated. No CV/Resume was submitted until stage 5, which was the first face to face.
This is a very good idea for such situations. A little like buying an insurance policy for your car. It guarantees a consistent format and you could even define drop-down boxes for hours flown (eg 150-300, 301-500, etc. Checkboxes for endorsements and aircraft type flown and minimal 'comments' space. You then get back to them for round two.
I noticed a few years back when receiving applications they frequently come from the same people overseas and often years apart with the same resume. One guy with an email tigerheart or similarl seemed to apply to all our jobs over a number of years.
I noticed a few years back when receiving applications they frequently come from the same people overseas and often years apart with the same resume. One guy with an email tigerheart or similarl seemed to apply to all our jobs over a number of years.
Thinking a little more about this if you were on a budget you could use survey monkey or similar and you could customize the flow of the questions depending on what they answer
You could also respond to all applicants requesting that the all full out the survey.
You could also respond to all applicants requesting that the all full out the survey.
CVs
I'm not a frequent employer but I do get a lot of CVs across my desk. Mine might be a bit of a different view than many, but. I don't care too much if its long or short. I appreciate that every applicant is submitting what they think is best. After all, they are trying to get them self a first job. My suggestion is directed more so, at guys and gals trying to get a start, and not actually responding to advertised criteria. I think a photo helps me recollect the applicant, and that's quite important if you've made a good impression and some time has passed. To be perfectly honest, most can comfortably do the "flying" job. I do respect that previous work experience such as Maccas, KFC, etc. it gives me an indication of how the flying training was perhaps funded. Previous work experience lets me know that the candidate is more likely to demonstrate a sense of ownership in the business, and demonstrate more initiative. I've experienced it repeatedly. If you've got some other skill, sparky, computers, carpentry etc., get it on there. Small Business owners appreciate that type of support. Don't just email a CV if at all possible. Much better to pop in, chat to the CP/CFI. Its hard to leave a memorable impression off a CV alone. Whatever happens folks. Be prepared to put a couple of years into it if you have to. Don't give up. It does work out. If your truly convinced that you can make a contribution, and don't give up, you will succeed. unfortunately your into it at a tough time, where CP/CFIs are under a lot of pressure, and there's not a lot of growth. Time and money are tight. There is light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think its a locomotive. Ive seen it for decades, it always works out OK!