Maintenance costs
Thread Starter
Maintenance costs
I am asking someone like Dick Smith, how much per hour do you think is a reasonable price to pay for maintenance on your aircraft. I do have a pre-conceived idea of what I think is reasonable, I am just wondering what you think. ofcourse I have a reason to ask this question, and that is, what do you think the LAME's that work on your aircraft should get paid. What do you think Dick, or any other rich owner??
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The whole question is a can of worms...
I get owners who baulk at paying 80 per hour(materials included) for me to do panel work on their mustang toy, but will happily pay 1 grand for an oil change on the new porsche.
I don't get it.....and have given up trying. Its now, that's the price, take it or leave it
I get owners who baulk at paying 80 per hour(materials included) for me to do panel work on their mustang toy, but will happily pay 1 grand for an oil change on the new porsche.
I don't get it.....and have given up trying. Its now, that's the price, take it or leave it
If you were to do a survey you would probably find that the amount a rich owner is prepared to pay will likely be the same for a normal owner, possibly even less. Rich guys don't get rich by splashing cash on money gouging mechanics in any industry and aviation is no different.
A friend used to be Lloyd Williams gardner and if he was to get a small plumbing job done for example, Lloyd would always request that he got 3 separate quotes before authorizing the work to begin.
I know people with a $150,000 aircraft that wouldn't cough up $60 to buy a ticket to go to Avalon.
A friend used to be Lloyd Williams gardner and if he was to get a small plumbing job done for example, Lloyd would always request that he got 3 separate quotes before authorizing the work to begin.
I know people with a $150,000 aircraft that wouldn't cough up $60 to buy a ticket to go to Avalon.
Just so true, Squawk!
During 28 years of running a small business, I've learned a couple of things about so called 'wealthy people'.
Generally, they are borrowed to buggery. (That's apparently how you get rich!) And they aren't the best payers.
And the ones to really watch out for are the ones that are into horse racing.
Terms: Cash on completion of the job, thank you. No cheques please!
During 28 years of running a small business, I've learned a couple of things about so called 'wealthy people'.
Generally, they are borrowed to buggery. (That's apparently how you get rich!) And they aren't the best payers.
And the ones to really watch out for are the ones that are into horse racing.
Terms: Cash on completion of the job, thank you. No cheques please!
Depends on the type of aircraft, what category it is operated under, turbine or piston, VFR or IFR, and specialist equipment and tooling for the make and model required to be purchased or leased by the maintainer .........
Yes, please be specific to get an accurate answer. Do you own a Cessna 172, or a KingAir or a Beechcraft Baron IFR or a RV-10?
What jacks is required - what calibration and types of engine equipment is required by the maintainer - this is how one will set their price?
Also, what subscription and full access to maintenance manuals will cost them, as a CASA requirement now? Some companies charge $1800 per year to have full access to the Piper or Cessna range. Engine manuals are on top of that depending on what powerplant you have?
What contract engineer do they have to sub-hire to complete the job to sign off? Engineers are type rated like pilots? Maybe you have a tail dragger and composite aircraft that requires a Composite GROUP 7 LAME rating? Very few around if there is a repair required, or a spar inspection or primary flight control surfcae inspection to be signed off if there is structural composites involved, eg - Cirrus range of aircraft.
Please elaborate your details.
I would safely say that any basic GA maintenance company in or near a city as a secondary GA airport would be charging about $85-95 per hour for a basic single engine aircraft in VFR category - Private or Aerial Work.
And $120 per hour based on a twin IFR and or corporate machine minimum. Turbine around $135 per hour.
Cheers, KP
Yes, please be specific to get an accurate answer. Do you own a Cessna 172, or a KingAir or a Beechcraft Baron IFR or a RV-10?
What jacks is required - what calibration and types of engine equipment is required by the maintainer - this is how one will set their price?
Also, what subscription and full access to maintenance manuals will cost them, as a CASA requirement now? Some companies charge $1800 per year to have full access to the Piper or Cessna range. Engine manuals are on top of that depending on what powerplant you have?
What contract engineer do they have to sub-hire to complete the job to sign off? Engineers are type rated like pilots? Maybe you have a tail dragger and composite aircraft that requires a Composite GROUP 7 LAME rating? Very few around if there is a repair required, or a spar inspection or primary flight control surfcae inspection to be signed off if there is structural composites involved, eg - Cirrus range of aircraft.
Please elaborate your details.
I would safely say that any basic GA maintenance company in or near a city as a secondary GA airport would be charging about $85-95 per hour for a basic single engine aircraft in VFR category - Private or Aerial Work.
And $120 per hour based on a twin IFR and or corporate machine minimum. Turbine around $135 per hour.
Cheers, KP
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With plumbers, electricians and car mechanics charging at least $100+ per hour who could quibble over a LAME charging 1 or 1.5 this rate given the difficulty of maintaining their licence and the liability they have.
Surely what should be the bigger concern is the inflated number of hours billed to some very simple jobs. On some basic aircraft I've been astonished at how they allocate excessive hours to jobs that obviously actually take a fraction of that time.
For an annual on a simple VFR single I'd rather see the actual number of hours done to the job and a $1000 issue fee for the MR instead of an imaginary extra 10 hours.
OOW
Surely what should be the bigger concern is the inflated number of hours billed to some very simple jobs. On some basic aircraft I've been astonished at how they allocate excessive hours to jobs that obviously actually take a fraction of that time.
For an annual on a simple VFR single I'd rather see the actual number of hours done to the job and a $1000 issue fee for the MR instead of an imaginary extra 10 hours.
OOW
The hourly rate is only part of the equation. It's about getting value for money.
Some engineers I'd happily pay $100 plus per hour and there's others I'd baulk at paying $25 per hour.
It's what you get for that hours work, productivity wise and experience/expertise wise.
Some guys might be "cheap" but cost you big bucks with poor fault finding and diagnostic skills and unnecessarily replacing parts and overhauling parts or there's others who charging excess time to the job.
Some engineers I'd happily pay $100 plus per hour and there's others I'd baulk at paying $25 per hour.
It's what you get for that hours work, productivity wise and experience/expertise wise.
Some guys might be "cheap" but cost you big bucks with poor fault finding and diagnostic skills and unnecessarily replacing parts and overhauling parts or there's others who charging excess time to the job.
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The hourly rate for maintenance on you aircraft is not what the LAME gets paid. The wage component is only part of the rate
Also, what subscription and full access to maintenance manuals will cost them, as a CASA requirement now? Some companies charge $1800 per year to have full access to the Piper or Cessna range.
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Hi Clinton, as C of R holder you direct your maintenance provider as to what maintenance you want carried out. If your provider is willing for you to sign a waiver saying that you do not want certain parts carried out then that should suffice. However you may need test cases and ultimately you would wear the can. An engineer is guided by the aircraft system of maintenance.
What areas are you talking about.
I understand one Jandakot maintenance org is paying $12000 per month rates so thats a lot of outlay before you even start on wages etc.
What areas are you talking about.
I understand one Jandakot maintenance org is paying $12000 per month rates so thats a lot of outlay before you even start on wages etc.
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Quite agree Clinton, Ad's and CAO 100.5 have to be done. However the C of R holder chooses what maintenance is carried out, usually schedule 5 or the manufactures system of maintenance. I know of some maintenance providers who will have the C of R holder sign a waiver if they do not want some non safety of flight defects rectified. Your call, you just have to be able to justify it.
You can of course make your own system of maintenance and have it approved by CASA.
You can of course make your own system of maintenance and have it approved by CASA.
Hourly labour cost is a naive question which completely misses the main issues.
One of the big questions is why so many jobs in Australia require more labour hours than the US?
Another would be accountability of time. You get a job done ny a car mechanic and you get an itemised bill. I have literally had invoices from LAME's with a single line entry for labour for $10,000. How many guys? Doing what? - we'll never know!
My other gripe is that with a car, you'll get a phonecall about replacing a $100 set of brake pads. With an aeroplane I have had "surprise" invoices of $30,000 with no prior warning. Car mechanics return old parts, or have them on hand to show you. I've never had that experience with a LAME.
One of the big questions is why so many jobs in Australia require more labour hours than the US?
Another would be accountability of time. You get a job done ny a car mechanic and you get an itemised bill. I have literally had invoices from LAME's with a single line entry for labour for $10,000. How many guys? Doing what? - we'll never know!
My other gripe is that with a car, you'll get a phonecall about replacing a $100 set of brake pads. With an aeroplane I have had "surprise" invoices of $30,000 with no prior warning. Car mechanics return old parts, or have them on hand to show you. I've never had that experience with a LAME.
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Hi Clinton, I would suggests for your own system of maintenance you would need sufficient data probably gained over several years justifying that your fuel and compass calibration has not changed between checks. Personally I think that fuel cals should be done every 4 years and compass cals done at engine change but that may still be too much for some people and not enough for the regulator.
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thread drift alert
…...we could draw a lot more, and not just from the FAA!
Speaking of maintenance and CASA. Funny but true story emerged from Avalon Air Show. The WWI aircraft display included a highly unusual (in the modern day) rotary engine. Not the Mazda kind either.
CASA insisted on attempting to ground the aircraft due to multiple engine falterings (failures) during the mock battles. Whoever the CASA Expert was, attacked the very guy who brought them their with accusations and zero research, rather than go and ask the question about the apparent failures. There is still doubt as to whether the truth of the matter had sunk in after his educational moment.
Mark Skidmore who likewise had no idea what or how one worked (and was keen to learn) was at least going to follow it up with the gestapo………..but one would doubt the offender learned anything from the experience.
So despite perfectly normal operation and lovingly maintained….you can still be grounded or an attempt on it at least, despite what the MR says.
What hope have you got with compasses and fuel gauges then
Speaking of maintenance and CASA. Funny but true story emerged from Avalon Air Show. The WWI aircraft display included a highly unusual (in the modern day) rotary engine. Not the Mazda kind either.
CASA insisted on attempting to ground the aircraft due to multiple engine falterings (failures) during the mock battles. Whoever the CASA Expert was, attacked the very guy who brought them their with accusations and zero research, rather than go and ask the question about the apparent failures. There is still doubt as to whether the truth of the matter had sunk in after his educational moment.
Mark Skidmore who likewise had no idea what or how one worked (and was keen to learn) was at least going to follow it up with the gestapo………..but one would doubt the offender learned anything from the experience.
So despite perfectly normal operation and lovingly maintained….you can still be grounded or an attempt on it at least, despite what the MR says.
What hope have you got with compasses and fuel gauges then
CASA insisted on attempting to ground the aircraft due to multiple engine falterings (failures) during the mock battles
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That is Jabba's point Squark.
The engine was running normally. (For it!
)
What many may not know, since it looks like a radial, is that it works quite differently.
Amongst other things the crankshaft is bolted to the aircraft and the prop is bolted to the engine!
The engine was running normally. (For it!
)What many may not know, since it looks like a radial, is that it works quite differently.
Amongst other things the crankshaft is bolted to the aircraft and the prop is bolted to the engine!