Future of General Aviation - Speak up NOW fellow aviators!
Thread Starter
Future of General Aviation - Speak up NOW fellow aviators!
Sure this has be vibrantly discussed on many occasions on this forum and verbally amongst all of us on more than one occasion.
Without trying to regurgitate historical specifics, I firmly believe that enough is enough and people need to start writing some serious letters to their local federal members to have the issues raised at the top levels. If your corrospondance appears to just disappear into the abyss, keep pumping the letters out to other federal members who may be a little more inclined to digest your concerns, eg Nick Xenophon and Bill Heffernan etc.
Forget the industry associations they are a waste of time in most cases, do it individually. Your important opinion deserves to be heard by the people making the decisions in relation our industry. Forget CASA, they are puppets to our leaders. Our leaders must be well informed, accurately and directly - they aren't the subject experts, we are. Hence good accurate unbiased information is what they need to get any positive traction on any possible good outcomes for our industry.
With the reg reform in full process now is the time to get in when the iron is hot.
Additional to this, I strongly suggest that everyone in industry makes it their business to respond to CASA in the correct manner when the new regs go out for consultation which I believe will be happening very soon, the next big one to go out is Part 91.
A couple of issues as examples in my opinion that should be addressed are;
1/ Part 61 requirements in their current form, the whole thing needs simplifying and must be realistic for GA.
2/ Relief for private and airwork operators from complying with additional maintenance (excluding scheduled) in relation to ageing aircraft, eg SIDs and AD/GEN/87 (cable replacements) etc. This should be a voluntary decision by aircraft owners. If such relief was made available, CASA apply operational restrictions on the effected aircraft to manage the risks (similiar to how experimental aircraft are regulated today).
Food for though fellow aviators. I'm just as frustrated as the next GA pilot but without everyone's initiative to speak up to the appropriate people in the correct manner, the only thing that is going to change is that GA will only be available for the rich and the scrap metal merchants will be converting our belovided aeroplanes into coke cans.
Without trying to regurgitate historical specifics, I firmly believe that enough is enough and people need to start writing some serious letters to their local federal members to have the issues raised at the top levels. If your corrospondance appears to just disappear into the abyss, keep pumping the letters out to other federal members who may be a little more inclined to digest your concerns, eg Nick Xenophon and Bill Heffernan etc.
Forget the industry associations they are a waste of time in most cases, do it individually. Your important opinion deserves to be heard by the people making the decisions in relation our industry. Forget CASA, they are puppets to our leaders. Our leaders must be well informed, accurately and directly - they aren't the subject experts, we are. Hence good accurate unbiased information is what they need to get any positive traction on any possible good outcomes for our industry.
With the reg reform in full process now is the time to get in when the iron is hot.
Additional to this, I strongly suggest that everyone in industry makes it their business to respond to CASA in the correct manner when the new regs go out for consultation which I believe will be happening very soon, the next big one to go out is Part 91.
A couple of issues as examples in my opinion that should be addressed are;
1/ Part 61 requirements in their current form, the whole thing needs simplifying and must be realistic for GA.
2/ Relief for private and airwork operators from complying with additional maintenance (excluding scheduled) in relation to ageing aircraft, eg SIDs and AD/GEN/87 (cable replacements) etc. This should be a voluntary decision by aircraft owners. If such relief was made available, CASA apply operational restrictions on the effected aircraft to manage the risks (similiar to how experimental aircraft are regulated today).
Food for though fellow aviators. I'm just as frustrated as the next GA pilot but without everyone's initiative to speak up to the appropriate people in the correct manner, the only thing that is going to change is that GA will only be available for the rich and the scrap metal merchants will be converting our belovided aeroplanes into coke cans.
Your entreaties will be ignored by the Government and opposition. That unfortunately is experience. To wit: the recommendations of last years review are ignored.
There are now only Four ways forward in my opinion:
1. Form an "aviation lovers party" get some candidates standing in marginal Federal seats and attempt to frighten the politicians into rewriting the Aviation Act to require CASA to foster Aviation and remove its ability to satisfy its charter by preventing aviation.
2. Wait in misery until a major accident causes a Royal Commission. Then try and get item 1 enacted as part of the process.
3. Financially support political campaigns by aviation minded independents like Nick Xenophon.
4.Civil disobedience, strikes and demonstrations in an attempt to get a positive public reaction.
Items 1 and 3 have the best chance in my opinion.
There are now only Four ways forward in my opinion:
1. Form an "aviation lovers party" get some candidates standing in marginal Federal seats and attempt to frighten the politicians into rewriting the Aviation Act to require CASA to foster Aviation and remove its ability to satisfy its charter by preventing aviation.
2. Wait in misery until a major accident causes a Royal Commission. Then try and get item 1 enacted as part of the process.
3. Financially support political campaigns by aviation minded independents like Nick Xenophon.
4.Civil disobedience, strikes and demonstrations in an attempt to get a positive public reaction.
Items 1 and 3 have the best chance in my opinion.
Sunfish
On your point #1
Surely the best way to get meaningful representation would be to run a senate candidate for "The Hangar Party" in every State?
If never-has-beens like Lambie and Ricky Muir can get into the Senate, strong aviation proponents would get in for sure IF EVERYONE IN THE INDUSTRY GOT BEHIND THEM.
The last 30 years have demonstrated that the Senate cross-benches can hold the Parliament to ransom; first the Australian Democrats, then the Greens, and now this rabble of unrepresentative swill.
I am certain, however, that any "party-room unity" in the Hangar Party will be destroyed by the same marginal factional in-fighting as we see on PPRuNe.
On your point #1
Surely the best way to get meaningful representation would be to run a senate candidate for "The Hangar Party" in every State?
If never-has-beens like Lambie and Ricky Muir can get into the Senate, strong aviation proponents would get in for sure IF EVERYONE IN THE INDUSTRY GOT BEHIND THEM.
The last 30 years have demonstrated that the Senate cross-benches can hold the Parliament to ransom; first the Australian Democrats, then the Greens, and now this rabble of unrepresentative swill.
I am certain, however, that any "party-room unity" in the Hangar Party will be destroyed by the same marginal factional in-fighting as we see on PPRuNe.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fully agree with all the above.
I would also like to see the (unelected & unrepresentative) secretary of a department with any kind of aviation input actually be managed and directed by the relevant minister.
That certainly doesn't happen now.
Mind you it hasn't happened during the nearly half century that I have been in the aviation game so why should it start to happen now.
The senior public service mandarins have learnt their craft all too well from Humphrey Appleby.
From Hansard and the various video records of the current incumbents performance only reinforces my observation.
Tipsy
I would also like to see the (unelected & unrepresentative) secretary of a department with any kind of aviation input actually be managed and directed by the relevant minister.
That certainly doesn't happen now.
Mind you it hasn't happened during the nearly half century that I have been in the aviation game so why should it start to happen now.
The senior public service mandarins have learnt their craft all too well from Humphrey Appleby.
From Hansard and the various video records of the current incumbents performance only reinforces my observation.
Tipsy
Feedback to the Government
In fact the very forum needed is right here. If we were to collectively express well reasoned and solidly supported arguments without emotive argument and address them to Tony Abbott right here on this forum, in this thread, it could quickly gain credibility. Its credibility would be completely dependent on the quality of our comment.
It could potentially get quickly and unfiltered, to decision makers. This could in effect become the funnelling point. It could become a barometer of industry without the bureaucratic processes that we have come to expect.
This is fast becoming a very serious issue for the Government to address. Numerous small businesses will be decimated under a Government that is supposedly the advocate of small business, under a Government that is supposedly reducing Red Tape, under a Government that should be encouraging income from overseas. This is fast becoming an issue effecting enough people that it will soon become an electoral issue.
Hopefully the Government could see fit to ask an older more experienced person to get in and become a advocate of Industry and a mediator. Perhaps someone with a mix of small business experience initially, and large Corporate experience later in their career. Ideally someone who has also worked in CASA. It would be ideal I guess, if they had a passion for the industry, absolute disdain for unnecessary red tape, experience in both the fixed wing and rotary side, someone with International exposure.
Let me think about that a little more over some toast with Dick Smith Marmalde.
It could potentially get quickly and unfiltered, to decision makers. This could in effect become the funnelling point. It could become a barometer of industry without the bureaucratic processes that we have come to expect.
This is fast becoming a very serious issue for the Government to address. Numerous small businesses will be decimated under a Government that is supposedly the advocate of small business, under a Government that is supposedly reducing Red Tape, under a Government that should be encouraging income from overseas. This is fast becoming an issue effecting enough people that it will soon become an electoral issue.
Hopefully the Government could see fit to ask an older more experienced person to get in and become a advocate of Industry and a mediator. Perhaps someone with a mix of small business experience initially, and large Corporate experience later in their career. Ideally someone who has also worked in CASA. It would be ideal I guess, if they had a passion for the industry, absolute disdain for unnecessary red tape, experience in both the fixed wing and rotary side, someone with International exposure.
Let me think about that a little more over some toast with Dick Smith Marmalde.
Last edited by glenb; 2nd Mar 2015 at 10:17. Reason: Put "it" in (in the biblical sense)
You might like to heap some imported frozen berries on your ice cream there mate
Our friend might have all those qualifications but does he have the motivation to act in this way?
Our friend might have all those qualifications but does he have the motivation to act in this way?
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: In my Swag
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fact the very forum needed is right here. If we were to collectively express well reasoned and solidly supported arguments without emotive argument and address them to Tony Abbott right here on this forum, in this thread, it could quickly gain credibility. Its credibility would be completely dependent on the quality of our comment.
Lotta positive stuff for aviation(), if and when the ALP get back in:
Andrew Leigh on QandA Monday:
Doubling of numbers? since when? He is just trying to play the old "silvertail" card. Quite possibly drives a car that is worth more than some "private" aircraft.
), if and when the ALP get back in:Andrew Leigh on QandA Monday:
They shared what they had and they had higher survival rates as a result. We have not got the highest inequality we’ve had in 75 years. The double 1% share has doubled. The top 0.1% share has tripled. We have a doubling in the number of private planes in Australia and yet one in seven Australians can't afford dental insurance and so I think we’re running a risk at the moment that that great egalitarian tradition in which we prefer to use the word 'Mate' to the word 'Sir' and we’d never think about re-introducing knights and dames - oops - is at odds with the economic reality, with the fact we’ve really seen this rising gap between rich and poor.
"We have a doubling in the number of private planes in Australia.."
I guess that's what's happened since we only had half as many.
I guess that's what's happened since we only had half as many.
Last edited by gerry111; 3rd Mar 2015 at 08:56.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a play on terminology to me.
Normally the GA fleet is counted from the VH list, yer?
But if you suddenly decided to count up all private aircraft from the VH and numbers lists, you'd easily double the size of the counted fleet.
About the same adjustment of numbers they use for the unemployed...stick on a course they day the head count is done....they are students, not unemployed!
"we've doubled the private fleet, so we need to double the regulation" he screeched as he chased his goanna dinner through the scrub
Just seems like dodgy accounting.
Normally the GA fleet is counted from the VH list, yer?
But if you suddenly decided to count up all private aircraft from the VH and numbers lists, you'd easily double the size of the counted fleet.
About the same adjustment of numbers they use for the unemployed...stick on a course they day the head count is done....they are students, not unemployed!
"we've doubled the private fleet, so we need to double the regulation" he screeched as he chased his goanna dinner through the scrub
Just seems like dodgy accounting.
The fact that we have contributors referring to the Minister as miniscule and other puerile names doesn't lend weight to credibility
I'm looking forward to Sunny activating part 4 of his action plan.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Letters to the pollies do have an effect. The basic metrics they use is that for every letter they receive that person represents 1000 votes (yes pretty much 1 in 1000 people will actually write to their local pollie - or any pollie). Interestingly it is very roughly about the same percentage of licenced pilots (with current medical) in the local population.They do have a list of serial complainers which they pretty much ignore, but if you have never written to a pollie or do so only occasionally and are firm but polite, sticking to the facts then your "issue" will be filed with others of a similar nature. Then when it reaches a mass that they believe will affect their election chances, it then becomes a topic of interest to the pollie. However I am also the member of another group which is even more "persecuted" than unloved pilots (maybe I just like lost causes??...) and that is a firearms owner. SO I know how hard it is to gain traction in something that is even less to the liking of the inner city soy latte drinkers than flying small aircraft is! And trying to get firearms owners to align their collective interests is almost as hard as trying to herd pilots.
But, there is another way. That is, to excite the public once again about aviation. It is easier said than done as the 24 hour news cycle shows. People (yes you and I) have the attention span of a gold fish, so in order to excite the public and keep them on task, is a huge ask. But I believe it is doable.
I am putting my money where my mouth is and if it comes off you will all see the fruits of this labour in around 18-24 months time. If not I will once again be as pessimistic as 96.8% of pilots on this board (The missing 3% is made up of student pilots and 0.2% of those going through the VET-FEE HELP thingy...). All I ask for is when you do notice this endeavour, is your support in spreading the word. More info to come over the next 12 moths or so. Hopefully if you are about 1/10th as passionate about aviation as I am then I am sure you will help out without even knowing it.
In the meantime write to your politicians. Your letters, hitting them at the between now and the time this endeavour comes to light, might just get some traction for what should be the mainstay of our large sparsely inhabited land.
Time will tell I guess, but I am at the stage in my life where if I don't at least try then I will die wondering if I could have actually done something to save general aviation in this country. I don't want to be in that position. So bugger it, it is only money...
Cheers
CB
But, there is another way. That is, to excite the public once again about aviation. It is easier said than done as the 24 hour news cycle shows. People (yes you and I) have the attention span of a gold fish, so in order to excite the public and keep them on task, is a huge ask. But I believe it is doable.
I am putting my money where my mouth is and if it comes off you will all see the fruits of this labour in around 18-24 months time. If not I will once again be as pessimistic as 96.8% of pilots on this board (The missing 3% is made up of student pilots and 0.2% of those going through the VET-FEE HELP thingy...). All I ask for is when you do notice this endeavour, is your support in spreading the word. More info to come over the next 12 moths or so. Hopefully if you are about 1/10th as passionate about aviation as I am then I am sure you will help out without even knowing it.
In the meantime write to your politicians. Your letters, hitting them at the between now and the time this endeavour comes to light, might just get some traction for what should be the mainstay of our large sparsely inhabited land.
Time will tell I guess, but I am at the stage in my life where if I don't at least try then I will die wondering if I could have actually done something to save general aviation in this country. I don't want to be in that position. So bugger it, it is only money...
Cheers
CB
Good luck CB with your endeavors. I went and spoke to the local member about the poor response of the then labor government to the Senate Inquiry into safety. Unfortunately he was a card carrying member of the left wing faction and would not agree that Albanese wasn't 100% right in his response. When I live in a seat with a less left wing member I will try again.
grassed up...
HL Hurtling Lawnmower, I'll have a word with the Rev.. er aka the Pot Smoking Evangelist and see if he can give you a stir/ rev up....just to liven things up a bit.
The only future for GA will be to struggle on under that vast and expensive, never ending, protective umbrella of regulations.. a veritable expanding universe of "safety" for all and forever and eternity.
Pilot Plebs ! All hail to the Gods in "Aviation House" and their many minions churning out changes, exemptions, instruments, amendments, CASRs that and CARs this. and etc. Almighty is the effort that no aeroplane shall commit itself to gravity and do the frightful death plunge to solid, fatal earth, where citizens beneath the airways give daily thanks to CAsA that such an evil shall not fall upon them.
Yea.. they shall lead us into the Promised Land of Accident Free Non Aviation. How good is that.! Nobody gets hurt
Or flys.
Amen
The only future for GA will be to struggle on under that vast and expensive, never ending, protective umbrella of regulations.. a veritable expanding universe of "safety" for all and forever and eternity.
Pilot Plebs ! All hail to the Gods in "Aviation House" and their many minions churning out changes, exemptions, instruments, amendments, CASRs that and CARs this. and etc. Almighty is the effort that no aeroplane shall commit itself to gravity and do the frightful death plunge to solid, fatal earth, where citizens beneath the airways give daily thanks to CAsA that such an evil shall not fall upon them.
Yea.. they shall lead us into the Promised Land of Accident Free Non Aviation. How good is that.! Nobody gets hurt
Or flys. Amen
Sweet reason, letters to politicians, august deputations from Associations carrying well thought out and carefully worded presentations, briefings, entreaties and reports. All of this has been tried with zero effect for a long time.
We tried yet again with the Truss Aviation Review. The result was a big fat zero.
It is all "too hard" for politicians because CASA simply says "its a technical matter that you know nothing about Mr. Politician" and "if we act on your suggestion then YOU will be liable if there is an accident" and "All of these airplane owners are rich bastards - Silvertails, unlike the rest of your constituents".
I respectfully suggest that the only way forward is for Aviation enthusiasts to add as large a measure as is legally possible of electoral uncertainty into the next few elections. The only thing that will get a members or a governments primary attention is a threat to their continued career.
We tried yet again with the Truss Aviation Review. The result was a big fat zero.
It is all "too hard" for politicians because CASA simply says "its a technical matter that you know nothing about Mr. Politician" and "if we act on your suggestion then YOU will be liable if there is an accident" and "All of these airplane owners are rich bastards - Silvertails, unlike the rest of your constituents".
I respectfully suggest that the only way forward is for Aviation enthusiasts to add as large a measure as is legally possible of electoral uncertainty into the next few elections. The only thing that will get a members or a governments primary attention is a threat to their continued career.
As aviation continues to shrink it will be interesting to see how CASA handle this as ultimately at some point the department has to start shrinking, which is the death knell for any public servant.
A shrinking department means a reduction in budget and a reduction in importance and power.
If CASA keep on like they are there won't be an industry to regulate and hence no department!
Interesting to note that most 1%ers in this country are not registering their aircraft here which is only adding to CASA's woes. If you think about it what are 30 odd Bizjets not on your register worth in fees.
A shrinking department means a reduction in budget and a reduction in importance and power.
If CASA keep on like they are there won't be an industry to regulate and hence no department!
Interesting to note that most 1%ers in this country are not registering their aircraft here which is only adding to CASA's woes. If you think about it what are 30 odd Bizjets not on your register worth in fees.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is there any political party with a positive position on Aviation? i can only think of one, sounds like a bit of support from the industry he wants to see flourish is in order. and with the way the 2 big political parties look and sound almost identical, and with the increase of the nobody independents getting seats, then if everyone in the industry votes for a certain new party, we might actually have a chance to get a change of direction.
Ultralights,
I presume the new party you refer to is NXT?
I presume the new party you refer to is NXT?
