Airline pilots deserve to be paid more
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Airline pilots deserve to be paid more
We've sold our selves short.
So easy to forget what we've gone through, the sacrifices we've made, the experience we've gained to prevent disaster.
How many professions in the world would an incident (pilot mistake or not), end up not only in the local media, but internationally?
Look at the medical profession that is beginning to learn from the airline industry. Do you know how many equivalent A380 loads of patients die each day without any media attention due to 'doctor error'? It's staggering.
Airline pilots have huge responsibility, we always have. Problem is we have forgotten how much and "downplayed" our true worth. I'm not sure why?
Thoughts?
So easy to forget what we've gone through, the sacrifices we've made, the experience we've gained to prevent disaster.
How many professions in the world would an incident (pilot mistake or not), end up not only in the local media, but internationally?
Look at the medical profession that is beginning to learn from the airline industry. Do you know how many equivalent A380 loads of patients die each day without any media attention due to 'doctor error'? It's staggering.
Airline pilots have huge responsibility, we always have. Problem is we have forgotten how much and "downplayed" our true worth. I'm not sure why?
Thoughts?
This should be interesting!!
Lot's of people 'deserve' to be paid more, I can think of:
Nurses
Policeman
Firefighters
Scientific Researchers
Carers etc.
Unfortunately we are also bound by what is 'affordable', with fares and low cost models as they are I think the money we get is appropriate. We could go back to high fares and more legacy carriers but then half of us would be out of work anyway.
As an aside I took home over $220,000 in my local currency last tax year which puts me in the top 1% of earners in my country, I am happy with that.
Lot's of people 'deserve' to be paid more, I can think of:
Nurses
Policeman
Firefighters
Scientific Researchers
Carers etc.
Unfortunately we are also bound by what is 'affordable', with fares and low cost models as they are I think the money we get is appropriate. We could go back to high fares and more legacy carriers but then half of us would be out of work anyway.
As an aside I took home over $220,000 in my local currency last tax year which puts me in the top 1% of earners in my country, I am happy with that.
Airline pilots deserve to be paid more
If you're not satisfied with your lot, then exercise your democratic right and find a job that pays better or the same with less responsibility.
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Stray thoughts.
Satire : "the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticise people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
Two bob's worth on an ever diminishing, circular, spiralling argument.
Stephen Fry – Revenge. "There were people who believed their opportunities to live a fulfilled life were hampered by the number of Asians in England, by the existence of a royal family, by the volume of traffic that passed by their house, by the malice of trade unions, by the power of callous employers, by the refusal of the health service to take their condition seriously, by communism, by capitalism, by atheism, by anything, in fact, but their own futile, weak-minded failure to get a ******* grip.”
Oscar Wilde. "Actors are so fortunate. They can choose whether they will appear in tragedy or in comedy, whether they will suffer or make merry, laugh or shed tears. But in real life it is different. Most men and women are forced to perform parts for which they have no qualifications. Our Guildenstern plays Hamlet for us, and our Hamlets have to jest like Prince Hal. The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.”
Most airline pilots are there through sheer grit, determination and perseverance (or a rich daddy).
The academic standards needed to become an airline pilot are abysmally low, the skill levels needed to operate modern aircraft are equally derisory.
The responsibility argument is bunkum unless one accepts that the pilot starts each flight with an intent to suicide on every approach and that only his superior sense of "responsibility" stopped him from diving the aircraft into the ground.
The only thing he can sell is his experience. And yes, it is worth something but as technology advances, it will be worth less and less. Today experience is worth about 25% of what it was 30 years ago.
The only argument I have for getting paid more is that I have to put up with performing a tedious, boring, brainless job day in, day out, usually on the back side of the clock and with a completely disrupted sleep and rest pattern. Also, the probabilities of my wife leaving me are much higher. It's a crappy job, so I should get paid more.
In short, my only skill is that I am able to snatch moments of sleep and rest at odd hours of the day and in different beds.
Certainly, all a bit tongue in cheek... But there is a modicum of truth in it.
The academic standards needed to become an airline pilot are abysmally low, the skill levels needed to operate modern aircraft are equally derisory.
The responsibility argument is bunkum unless one accepts that the pilot starts each flight with an intent to suicide on every approach and that only his superior sense of "responsibility" stopped him from diving the aircraft into the ground.
The only thing he can sell is his experience. And yes, it is worth something but as technology advances, it will be worth less and less. Today experience is worth about 25% of what it was 30 years ago.
The only argument I have for getting paid more is that I have to put up with performing a tedious, boring, brainless job day in, day out, usually on the back side of the clock and with a completely disrupted sleep and rest pattern. Also, the probabilities of my wife leaving me are much higher. It's a crappy job, so I should get paid more.
In short, my only skill is that I am able to snatch moments of sleep and rest at odd hours of the day and in different beds.
Certainly, all a bit tongue in cheek... But there is a modicum of truth in it.
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Is this a pilot's forum or an airline manager's forum run by accountants? Seriously.
Just like a surgeon who has got very good at what they do, we go through 5-10+ years before we 'make it', except they make 300k+ in the public sector (not private). We just forget the constant effort we make because 'we love our job' to get to that point. When was the last time you read a company email or industry article on improving yourself as a professional in your own time?
Why do pilots put other professions on such a pedestal just because we don't require a 'degree' (even though many of us do, and more), or have a 'hero' job such as a nurse or a firefighter?
I just don't get it??? Despite all the tens of thousands spent, the many sacrifices made, the constant surveillance and media scrutiny. Why do we think we are so worthless, when historically we are the longest serving employees of an airline who have the strongest desire for it to succeed?
Just like a surgeon who has got very good at what they do, we go through 5-10+ years before we 'make it', except they make 300k+ in the public sector (not private). We just forget the constant effort we make because 'we love our job' to get to that point. When was the last time you read a company email or industry article on improving yourself as a professional in your own time?
Why do pilots put other professions on such a pedestal just because we don't require a 'degree' (even though many of us do, and more), or have a 'hero' job such as a nurse or a firefighter?
I just don't get it??? Despite all the tens of thousands spent, the many sacrifices made, the constant surveillance and media scrutiny. Why do we think we are so worthless, when historically we are the longest serving employees of an airline who have the strongest desire for it to succeed?
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More pay?
Pilots are the enemy of amongst themselves! Where does it start? With the miscreants who participated in the Pay 2 Fly Schemed. Next level? Chief pilots and director of operations who hired these miscreants over the ones who earned their time the honest way.
Rethink your union representatives... Whose interests do they truly have... The pilot group or management? Not uncommon for members of the company's pilots MEC to join the airline management group, especially during contract negotiations... bad for the pilots and great for the company and defectors.
And the creator of those thread cries... "Pilots deserve more money!" GMAFB
Pilots are the enemy of amongst themselves! Where does it start? With the miscreants who participated in the Pay 2 Fly Schemed. Next level? Chief pilots and director of operations who hired these miscreants over the ones who earned their time the honest way.
Rethink your union representatives... Whose interests do they truly have... The pilot group or management? Not uncommon for members of the company's pilots MEC to join the airline management group, especially during contract negotiations... bad for the pilots and great for the company and defectors.
And the creator of those thread cries... "Pilots deserve more money!" GMAFB
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Just like a surgeon who has got very good at what they do,
I'd say that lucille's description fits me (with the exception of the rich daddy...sadly)
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The value of the airline pilot is inversely proportional to the public's perception of the reliability of aircraft & the notion that they can fly themselves.
And the response to recent accidents - that pesky, overpaid pilot stuffed up yet again. The value drops further.
And our response as pilots - rather than work on sufficient training to be able to fly the aircraft & the discipline to actually fly the thing, rather than turning the autopilot on & the brain off, the vast majority seem to be clamouring for even more advances in automation to protect them from an accident. That's really going to increase the value of the airline pilot - not.
And the response to recent accidents - that pesky, overpaid pilot stuffed up yet again. The value drops further.
And our response as pilots - rather than work on sufficient training to be able to fly the aircraft & the discipline to actually fly the thing, rather than turning the autopilot on & the brain off, the vast majority seem to be clamouring for even more advances in automation to protect them from an accident. That's really going to increase the value of the airline pilot - not.
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Is this a pilot's forum or an airline manager's forum run by accountants? Seriously.
You must appreciate that not every pilot will share your views.
Thoughts?
Obviously all workers think they are worth more, '89 ring a bell?
It's like anything that you buy second hand, it's 'worth' is whatever someone is willing to pay for it, not what you think it's worth & by saying that I mean the 'someone' is the traveling public, they indirectly 'pay' you what you are worth.
Get Mr & Mrs Joe Public to pay $300 ML-SY then lets talk turkey but those days are long gone & the business of flying is just that a commercial business. These Airline Co's aren't there to help anybody get anywhere for the fun of it they are there to make money (albeit little if any these days) so the pilots are just another 'tool' in their tool box to do just that, make $$$
Airline Co's are their worst own enemies, they will crawl over broken glass to hurt/undercut a competitor, we are now seeing the results of that, a very poor future for aviation pretty much the world over.
Wmk2
It's like anything that you buy second hand, it's 'worth' is whatever someone is willing to pay for it, not what you think it's worth & by saying that I mean the 'someone' is the traveling public, they indirectly 'pay' you what you are worth.
Get Mr & Mrs Joe Public to pay $300 ML-SY then lets talk turkey but those days are long gone & the business of flying is just that a commercial business. These Airline Co's aren't there to help anybody get anywhere for the fun of it they are there to make money (albeit little if any these days) so the pilots are just another 'tool' in their tool box to do just that, make $$$
Airline Co's are their worst own enemies, they will crawl over broken glass to hurt/undercut a competitor, we are now seeing the results of that, a very poor future for aviation pretty much the world over.
Wmk2
Nobody has mentioned the pilots ability to save or cost large amounts of money.
By being smart, having a really good knowledge of weather and aircraft performance , and by communicating well a pilot can easily save their salaries worth in a year.......or cost it. For me, I only have to save $400 per flight (compared to the industry standard of pilots )in order to save $100,000. I'm doing quite long sectors in 737's and would like to think I come pretty close to doing that. By being very well prepared a pilot can often avoid situations where passengers end up in hotel rooms, missed approaches are conducted, diversions for a "gas and go" are carried out etc. these things cost a lot if you take into account schedule disruption etc. By avoiding one of these each year you are earning your worth, and that's without thinking about how much work you did to get there or how much responsibility you have.
Before anyone wonders out loud, I'm happy to divert or to carry extra gas and do so. I only start striving for extra efficiencies when the safety side is well under control.
By being smart, having a really good knowledge of weather and aircraft performance , and by communicating well a pilot can easily save their salaries worth in a year.......or cost it. For me, I only have to save $400 per flight (compared to the industry standard of pilots )in order to save $100,000. I'm doing quite long sectors in 737's and would like to think I come pretty close to doing that. By being very well prepared a pilot can often avoid situations where passengers end up in hotel rooms, missed approaches are conducted, diversions for a "gas and go" are carried out etc. these things cost a lot if you take into account schedule disruption etc. By avoiding one of these each year you are earning your worth, and that's without thinking about how much work you did to get there or how much responsibility you have.
Before anyone wonders out loud, I'm happy to divert or to carry extra gas and do so. I only start striving for extra efficiencies when the safety side is well under control.
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paid more..for what ? being a technician who monitors screen ? The job has changed a lot compared to the 60's. Being a pilot now is being a technician no more no less.
Nowadays even an engineer should be paid more than a pilot. (Studies are longer and you think much more than being a SOP operator).
Nowadays even an engineer should be paid more than a pilot. (Studies are longer and you think much more than being a SOP operator).
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paid more..for what ? being a technician who monitors screen ? The job has changed a lot compared to the 60's. Being a pilot now is being a technician no more no less.
If you are not, then you will never completely understand. Good piloting looks simple & easy from the outside and that is just the way it should be.
Greenlights, two years ago you got your first gig with an airline with 700 TT and wrote the following;
And now you say you're a technician who monitors a screen? By Jingoes I hope you aren't planning to simply monitor when you upgrade to Captain, you have to be able to do a nice job when all of those automatics fall over and monitoring is not the call of the day. Your attitude may change a little as you age 
hey,
To tell a bit my experience:
I did many jobs to refund my loan, and some of them was cleaning operator, I clean floors of supermarket and toilets... I had my Cpl/Ir mcc FI.
For me, it was not a humiliation at all. I just did a job to pay back my bank. And all the time I think in a positive way, I have learned things in my life. I learn how to clean, how to respect a timing, how to deal with customers, etc.
Guess what ? I start soon on A320 in Asia after 5 years of jobs like that, TR paid by my airline. I've only 700h total, in single engine piston I don't even look at employment website, I breath again, I don't even think or read about P2F... I am proud of myself, worked hard and make contacts, no jet experience, no hours on type...everything's possible.
So, if I had to do it again ? I will do it.
Humble people, hard worker, good attitude, will make it. It's not about jobs or else...it's about personnality.
To tell a bit my experience:
I did many jobs to refund my loan, and some of them was cleaning operator, I clean floors of supermarket and toilets... I had my Cpl/Ir mcc FI.
For me, it was not a humiliation at all. I just did a job to pay back my bank. And all the time I think in a positive way, I have learned things in my life. I learn how to clean, how to respect a timing, how to deal with customers, etc.
Guess what ? I start soon on A320 in Asia after 5 years of jobs like that, TR paid by my airline. I've only 700h total, in single engine piston I don't even look at employment website, I breath again, I don't even think or read about P2F... I am proud of myself, worked hard and make contacts, no jet experience, no hours on type...everything's possible.
So, if I had to do it again ? I will do it.
Humble people, hard worker, good attitude, will make it. It's not about jobs or else...it's about personnality.