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CASA now wants to control community flights what next

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Old 26th Aug 2014, 09:29
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Frank: MOST Olympic athletes ARE amateurs.

AeroD:

I have seen allot of angel flights take place and they were all single engine piston with a PPL at the controls. You can't tell me that a there is not a higher level of risk involved in this type of operation. When you consider A whole fleet of king air, PC 12, caravans, bell 412 and dauphins are parked on aprons all around Australia with trained professional pilots that are ready NOW to go help the sick and injured. I call bull**** on the "mercy flight excuse".
You are describing a sickness that pervades ALL of GA and has nothing of relevance to AF unless you are suggesting that it becomes a commercial operation. Which would be great and it should be funded by CASA. Or it should be operated by CASA and pilots should be FOIs on their off duty time as a service to the community. Or, just so you don't have this eyesore of idle aircraft at your field, they should be all nationalised by CASA and dispersed to all the airfields in AU and territories, at least one per airfield. Along with a MRO, fully staffed and capable with proper training, supervisory oversight and regular inspections, rotating stores and supplies, etc...

sc
Black humour is in my blood, both an unfortunate perspective and a survival mechanism.
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 10:48
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Olympic athletes WERE amateurs. Any athlete that accepts an endorsement for swimmers, shoes, or sunglasses is a professional athlete. I concur with the guts of your post and appreciate black humor. Something to thank contemporary CAsA for. In times long gone it was "educate, not regulate".
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Old 26th Aug 2014, 20:35
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Nsw A/A almost lost a king air on more than than one occasion. Numerous rotor wing accidents Rfds engine failures on pc12 I more than one occasion. At the end of the day any time you take to the air risk are always there. But once again Australia runs on three things if your not in the 3 things you can all go and get stuffed.
3 things.
Sydney
Melbroune
Brisbane

F$&@ anyone in the bush that's just it !!!
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 03:13
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Sally Cripps from QLD Country Life on Angel Flight.

Another female journalist that 'gets it'!:CASA wants to clip Angel Flight's wings


RURAL Australia is in danger of losing one of its most cherished charity organisations if a preferred option put forward in a discussion paper on safety standards for community service flights is acted upon.

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has just released what it calls “a first step” to stimulate discussion surrounding the regulation of community service flights, based on what it says is a desire for the best possible safety outcomes for everyone.

Angel Flight is the main volunteer group conducting these types of flights and its CEO says CASA’s favoured position will be “highly destructive” to the organisation, to the point where it would have to cease operating.
Bill Bristow describes CASA’s paper as “make or break” for the charity that has flown over 16,500 missions and helped more than 2500 people in its 11 years of existence.

Although 10 options are presented in the paper, canvassing a range of administrative changes, option five – establishing an approved self-administering aviation organisation – is CASA’s preferred method of meeting its safety management goals.

“There are charitable organisations that already function as a kind of ‘booking agency’ for the conduct of community service flights,” the discussion paper noted.

“If this proposed regulatory model is adopted, such organisations would be expected to ensure that the pilots and aircraft meet specified standards when conducting such activities under the organisation’s auspices.”

It lists responsibilities including assessing and authorising pilots, assessment and approval of aircraft, regular pilot proficiency checking, and pilot and aircraft tasking.

Mr Bristow said this would entail setting up a “huge, demanding and complex bureaucracy” that would “kill Angel Flight dead”.

The group has identified an “astronomical” rise in insurance costs if Angel Flight were to become responsible for private pilots making private flights, as just one of the consequences.
“We don’t believe it’s necessary and 100 per cent of our pilots say it’s not necessary either,” he said.


“Our pilots are highly regulated already by CASA, and we have higher entry level credentials than CASA requires.

“Our requirement is for a minimum of 250 hours in command.”
Angel Flight also insists its pilots have regular reviews and asks for photocopy proof of proficiency checks.

While Mr Bristow said none of the options put forward in the discussion paper were necessary, he believed that if there were any issues, it was up to CASA to address them through their current standards.

“We are not an aviation organisation. We’re like a dating agency – we find people in need and introduce them to the resources they need.

“What we do is like driving your friend to hospital.”

In the 11 years that Angel Flight has been operating in Australia, one fatal crash has taken place, at Nhill in Victoria.

The coroner said at the time that “in the circumstances I do not consider there is cause to make adverse comment about the role of Angel Flight in this case”.

CASA’s manager for corporate communications, Peter Gibson said the growth of community service flights over the years meant it was appropriate to consider the level of safety passengers receive.

Although he agreed that comprehensive regulations were in place for all operations, he said CASA was committed to working to continually improve safety.

“It is widely recognised that the availability of community service flights fills an important community need, and as they become more widely used, pilot qualifications, pilot experience and aircraft certification and maintenance standards could become significant risk factors,” the discussion paper states.

The preamble is a minefield of bureaucratic conjecture, listing objections to maintaining the status quo such as “a lack of transparency as to choice of aircraft and pilot” and “a lack of clarity as to the level of responsibility that each agent assumes when a flight is conducted”.
The paper also swerves away from safety issues to expressing a concern that medical professionals aren’t able to decide whether a patient’s circumstances warrant Angel Flight’s services, although a check of the organisation’s website shows that it is medical practitioners, nurses and social workers who register mission requests.


A similar lack of knowledge of Angel Flight’s basic operation is shown when the paper says that “unless controls are put in place, the aircraft involved could potentially vary from an amateur-built experimental aircraft through to a turbine powered corporate aircraft”.

“We don’t allow experimental aircraft,” Mr Bristow commented. “That’s just not valid to raise.”

Mr Gibson said that CASA would listen to what everyone had to say, would think about the responses and determine the appropriate way forward.

“No action will be taken until all responses and submissions have been considered,” he said.

Predicting an enormous backlash from country people, Mr Bristow urged people with concerns for the future of Angel Flight to put a submission in before the closing date of October 10, and to contact their local MP.
<LI style="LIST-STYLE-POSITION: inside">The discussion paper can be accessed here.
"The huge, demanding and complex bureaucracy would kill Angel Flight dead."

I might suggest that if the current status quo continues to exist then Angel Flight will not be on their 'Pat Malone'...

MTF..

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Old 4th Sep 2014, 04:30
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"I might suggest that if the current status quo continues to exist then Angel Flight will not be on their 'Pat Malone'"

Heard a rumour that one or two industry heavy hitters have made that plain to the "Wuss", if things continue as they are they will be pulling the pin and investing their money somewhere other than aviation.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 05:40
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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the charity that has flown over 16,500 missions and helped more than 2500 people in its 11 years of existence.
In the 11 years that Angel Flight has been operating in Australia, one fatal crash has taken place, at Nhill in Victoria.
Let's shut down this dangerous organisation and make the country bumkins travel by road, I am sure it will be safer.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 08:05
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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"The huge, demanding and complex bureaucracy would kill Angel Flight dead."
Just like it is slowly killing off the rest of the industry. Part 145 just one that springs to mind.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 08:28
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"Just like it is slowly killing off the rest of the industry. Part 145 just one that springs to mind".

Jabs,

Mate, what you fail to realize is there are a lot of CAsA staff who have invested in Warehouse building companies.

Part 145 is a boon to these companies.

All the Part 145 paperwork has to be stored somewhere, warehouse building is the new "Education Revolution", instead of school halls their building warehouses.

In case you haven't heard, modern aircraft no longer need maintenance, ( Hey, the Leprechaun said so!!) just lots of paperwork, your modern aircraft engineer will no longer need to know what a spanner is, his primary skillset will be, getting that tick squarely in the box.
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Old 23rd Sep 2014, 00:57
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Our fearless aviation leader wrote this in answer to an article by Des Houghton in the Courier Mail on Saturday. Such an article by a right wing writer in a far right wing paper (I use the term 'paper' loosely) must have shaken him up a bit.

An answer in the very next edition. Unheard of. This man is so busy helping Abbott screw the poor that he hasn't had time in more than 330days to meet with Angel Flight's Australian initiator Bill Bristowto discuss the matter. He is probably too scared to mention a thought bubble of introducing a $7,000 co-payment for Angel Flights.


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Old 25th Sep 2014, 02:48
  #90 (permalink)  
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Interesting.

So if I read that correctly, to avoid Ministerial responsibility, turn a Government department into a statutory body, appoint a Board and the Minister washes his hands of any further responsibility?

What a nifty lurk! I wonder whether the Minister's salary is reduced due to his reduced responsibilities?
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 03:33
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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If, as he asserts, the Minister has nothing to do with this, it would make me awfully happy to know if Bill Bristow has had any meeting with CAsA and what was resolved. I can't see this going away and the thought of Angel Flight not being there will impact upon that same Minister via his constituents if he stays asleep on the job.


Does the member for Kennedy know anything about this? He usually gets a question or two in the House of Representatives which he could direct to Truss without notice.
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 07:18
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Hats...

The Member for Kennedy, traverses his huge electorate using GA..but unfortunately Bob has his head stuck up his...hat.
No further correspondence will be entered into. Fini.

A question for AeroD...the guy who knows how the wing works?,

Please tell me this. What is it that a PPL does NOT do when he flies an aircraft from A to B.. that is different/deficient from a CPL flying from A to B.
S/E Day VFR.

And I'll give you a very sobering statistic to chew on...
When CAsA were spending tens of thousands of dollars chasing a PPL all over Australia...solo with camera only on board, in the Cape York region alone there were SEVEN CPL light and twin charter accidents and TWENTY ONE fatalities.

So you can see where their priorities REALLY lie. And it aint "safety"

Last weeks thought bubble from the Non Aviation House crowd, ( what shall we do this week to keep ourselves occupied?) was Angel Flight.

Next week it will be , lets see ah gliding uses tow pilots flying powered a/c. They might crash, ..lets get into overseeing that..to make it "safer", of course...after all we are the "experts"
Never mind that has been the balliwick of the Gliding Federation for the last 50 years.

OH right they tried that on about 15 years ago..and where did that go.???
A few folk got glider flights and some all expenses paid trips around the traps touring the county, sticking their bib in. And then it all faded away !!!

And the next brain snap will be????
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 10:12
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Parachute operations?
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 12:09
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Frank the prescient...

Oh God, yes, oh yes Frank you're onto something there.
Those "meat bombers" are soooo dangerous. Something must be done to keep the world safe from falling aeroplanes ,,( as well as bodies)

And that's not all... Skydiving businesses make big bucks... oh how awful Commerce Its part of GA too...stop it at once.
COMMERCE !!!.. go and wash yr mouth out ...we cant have that. !!
And... AND they even employ PPLs as pilots..sounds very unsafe and dodgy to me. And they even get paid ( sometimes) sounds dodgy AND illegal to me.

Were you aware that a Charter operator that flies boxes of crabs down from the Cape has to have a COMMERCIAL Licence and Skydive operators carrying real live people only have to have a PPL.? (Im quoting from a letter in the Cairns Post years ago by some CAsA tosser. Who made the rules again???)
Its shockingly unsafe and has been for decades, especially when there are drop zones near airfields. And airliners too. And cars on the road. Could be even helicopters in the vicinity Or Sailplanes and Tow planes..and they dont have CPLs either. This smacks of aviation getting out of control.
It ALL must be stopped.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 05:23
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Essentially correct, tail wheel (post # 93), as I understand the ‘theoretical’ arrangements. However, having a board does not preclude the Minister from issuing broad direction as regards government expectation in respect of priorities and, by extension, the manner in which regulation is framed and its concomitant outcomes on industry. The Minister has the power to 'direct' in this manner, regardless of statutory-body status.

The press release is a chimera regarding where the buck stops and is an exercise in poor semantics. The Minister may feel some relief that the bureaucrats have given him a superficial out, but it's a mirage in respect of ultimate ministerial responsibility.

By implication (and taking the scenario to extremes), CASA could make a regulation that says left-handed pilots are dangerous and are now disendorsed. They are that free according to that sham of a press release. And, according to the release, the Minister would have no power to influence the decision. What utter rubbish!

As I said, the Minister is able to define government expectations. Those expectations may be of a strategic nature, and not down in the weeds, but cogent guidance from government in the form of a ‘letter of charter’ is within the Minister’s purview and an elected government’s right. Set the strategic direction, which is the elected government’s responsibility, and the paper-pushers are obliged to fall into line. If they don’t, the Minister is entirely within his rights to ‘kick ass and take names,’ regardless of whether he has a board between himself and the bureaucracy.

Unfortunately, the current incumbent, to me, has never come across as having the necessary spine to fulfil his obligations in respect of setting the broad agenda on behalf of the elected government. This is his second go, and he’s been as unimpressive as his first time around. He has the wherewithal to fix this mess, but he’s happy to hide behind the bureaucracy and be a ditherer. Truss = dither.

Enough of a rant from me, but the BS surrounding this issue just astounds.


I'd like to hear Sunny's opinion, and I'd also like to know where Dick stands on this one, despite our crossing swords in the past.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 05:37
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Alas, CASA created itself.

The Parliament didn’t make and can’t change the legislation that created CASA and defines and constrains its functions and powers. Governments therefore can’t introduce any legislation into the Parliament to change anything.

Alas, CASA funds itself.

CASA prints its own money. The Parliament doesn’t pass appropriation Bills appropriating money from consolidated revenue for CASA to spend.

There is nothing anyone can do. All the Parliament can do is sit by and occasionally wave a rhetorical fist at CASA.

(Pssssst. Pssssst. Yes: Over here. I’ll let you in on a secret:

Actually, the government could legislate to do whatever it liked with CASA, including disappearing it.

But the government doesn’t want to.

It doesn’t want to, because it doesn’t need to in order to protect its political interests. )
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 05:50
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Geez Creamy, I thought you'd lost the plot with the first part of that post. Good recovery but.

How would a government go about closing down CASA and outsourcing the function to, say, CAA (NZ)?
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 06:32
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking about appropriations;


The Senate could, if it were important to them, stop supply. Been done before and brought one PM undone. A Deputy PM would not feature in the theatre of operations. This may keep the dynamic within acceptable political boundary's. I wonder what the GG thinks of all this. I'm told he is very approachable, is his own man, and tolerates most ranks legitimate complaints. I wonder if Xenaphon has this power of independence to co-opt the Pups?

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 26th Sep 2014 at 06:34. Reason: Terry's sober today.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 06:36
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How would a government go about closing down CASA and outsourcing the function to, say, CAA (NZ)?
That’s easy.

But that won’t help unless the regulatory Frankenstein that is the Australian regulations is also destroyed. CAA NZ would simply find itself captive of the same Frankenstein.

Australia needs a new regulatory regime, first. Who runs the regulatory authority in that new regime is step 2.

The fundamental, chronic problem in Australia is that governments continue to leave it to the regulatory authority to drive the development of the regulatory regime the regulator administers, including the regulator’s own role in that regime. Surprise, surprise: The regulator’s response to any and every perceived problem is more regulation and more expensive interactions with the regulator.

The fact that the opportunity cost of 'safer' skies may be to expose people to greater risk elsewhere is not CASA's 'problem'. Community Service Flight regulation: QED. Die through lack of medical treatment or in a long road trip trying to get it? Not CASA's problem.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 07:32
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CASA has decided to shut Angel Flight down. That much is obvious.

The method chosen is called "File stuffing". That too is obvious.

The method involves starting a file on the activities of Angel Flight and recording and filing detailed observations of any infraction of any rule by an Angel Flight pilot.

Make no mistake, CASA are out to get Bristow. The initial "discussion" paper was actually a call to arms to every flight operations inspector and airworthiiness inspector in Australia to redouble and triple scrutiny of every pilot and aircraft in the Angel Flight fleet.

To put that another way, The "meta message" - the message you are sending when you dont say you are sending a message is simple; CASA thinks Angel Flight must be closed and it is the duty of every CASA employee to make it so.

When the file reaches about Four inches thick and another incident occurs, say a wheels up landing somewhere, CASA pounces. The pull out the file and thump it on the tale saying "the contents of this file PROVE Angel Flight is a safety menace and the minutiae of all the reports of flat tyres, out of date charts, unrestrained baggage and missing spare spectacles are simply too voluminous to defend in detail and you are f^&%ed.

Why is Angel Flight under attack? Simple,, it is building enough community support nationally to attain the status of a national Icon, and if that happens CASA can't attack it any more than they could the Royal Flying Doctor Service or Bondi Surf club without a national outcry.

CASA may have left its run too late though if Angel Flight, realising that it is now prey, decides to build its public profile.
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