MERGED: Coffs Harbour Chipmunk Crash
Interesting read:
Investigation: AO-2014-114 - Collision with terrain involving DHC-1, 'Chipmunk' VH-UPD near Coffs Harbour, NSW on 29 June 2014
I find it interesting the report does not mention the manufacturers TNS on Chipmunk spinning. TNSs (Technical News Sheet) are the manufacturer's version of a service bulletin / AD, the ATSB has quoted various articles written about spinning the DHC-1, but not the official one!
I believe TNS 142 should be a mandatory issue to all pilots flying the Chippy.
Investigation: AO-2014-114 - Collision with terrain involving DHC-1, 'Chipmunk' VH-UPD near Coffs Harbour, NSW on 29 June 2014
I find it interesting the report does not mention the manufacturers TNS on Chipmunk spinning. TNSs (Technical News Sheet) are the manufacturer's version of a service bulletin / AD, the ATSB has quoted various articles written about spinning the DHC-1, but not the official one!
I believe TNS 142 should be a mandatory issue to all pilots flying the Chippy.
I find it interesting the report does not mention the manufacturers TNS on Chipmunk spinning.
I'm appalled to read though that some instructors were apparently teaching incorrect techniques.
Fabric covered wings?
The Chipmunk was designed for ab initio military flight training. It is a two-seat, low-wing, singleengine aircraft with a mainly light aluminium alloy sheet airframe and fabric covered wings and control surfaces. The aircraft was powered by a de Havilland Gipsy Major 10 Mk 2 fourcylinder piston engine driving a two-blade wooden Hoffman H0.21198B/140L fixed-pitch propeller.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here - metal "D" section leading edges, otherwise the wings aft of the mainspar and all flight controls are fabric covered.
I'm also appalled at the standard of instruction but not surprised. Ask the average flying instructor what they teach for spin recovery, most say apply opposite rudder and some form of elevator input. No mention of throttle or aileron input. They were likely taught and teach entry from a power off, wings level state of flight and don't understand how people inadvertently enter a spin. I would suspect high power and a fist full of aileron in an attempt to counter the roll during the spin entry - like this poor fellow flicking of the top of a loop or a stall in a climbing turn after takeoff or a beat-up.
Dora-9
Well you should know. I always thought the wings were metal skinned hence my question.
Rgds
I'm not sure what you're getting at here - metal "D" section leading edges, otherwise the wings aft of the mainspar and all flight controls are fabric covered.
Rgds
I am also appalled at the standard of instruction but not surprised
Sat through a spin brief and questioned the recovery technique put to me. Went flying and he saw that what he said did not result in recovery. I asked him if he knew what the Flight Manual said on the subject ......... I sometimes have pilots come to me for a quiet chat about a spin which has scared them and I ask what recovery technique then I comment that they were lucky ... read the Flight Manual.
Didn't we just have the same discussion in another thread.
Fris B. Fairing:
Just to complicate the issue there is actually one Australian Chipmunk with metal-skinned wings and flight controls (and wing lockers too).
Just to complicate the issue there is actually one Australian Chipmunk with metal-skinned wings and flight controls (and wing lockers too).
Moderator
Fris, I would have asked the same question but look under the Starboard wing in Dora-9's photo........
£4/10/- an hour when I learned to fly ...........
Sadly the aero club sold their two for a reputed £800!
£4/10/- an hour when I learned to fly ...........
Sadly the aero club sold their two for a reputed £800!
£4/10/- an hour when I learned to fl
Here's a 2003 photo of the ill-fated UPD at Coffs Harbour (I think the accident site is in the line of trees in the RH background), note all the grey areas of the wing are fabric covered:
It would seem that ATSB are posting out hard copies of this report to (at least) Chipmunk owners - mine arrived in the mail yesterday.
Given that everyone seems always ready to bag ATSB, I think it's impressive thinking to ensure that this report receives the widespread attention that it surely deserves.
The attached "The Chipmunk Spin - The Facts" article (from Aviation Safety Digest No.22) is also included, unlike what was on the ATSB website this time it's large enough to be easily read. It should be required reading for all Chipmunk pilots or those intending to fly one. To his credit, Roundsounds ensures his students read this.
Lastly, on another thread Sheppey posted this:
Perhaps missing the point here, the major significance is that at least two instructors (and they were from a school that had another Chipmunk "on strength") weren't teaching (or perhaps didn't even know) the correct technique for Chipmunk spin recovery.
Given that everyone seems always ready to bag ATSB, I think it's impressive thinking to ensure that this report receives the widespread attention that it surely deserves.
The attached "The Chipmunk Spin - The Facts" article (from Aviation Safety Digest No.22) is also included, unlike what was on the ATSB website this time it's large enough to be easily read. It should be required reading for all Chipmunk pilots or those intending to fly one. To his credit, Roundsounds ensures his students read this.
Lastly, on another thread Sheppey posted this:
aircraft owners should be particularly interested because of the need to always ensure aircraft flight manual documentation is valid and up to date.
Dora - Perhaps missing the point here, the major significance is that at least two instructors (and they were from a school that had another Chipmunk "on strength") weren't teaching (or perhaps didn't even know) the correct technique for Chipmunk spin recovery.
I'd go a step further, I'm not sure they know the correct spin recovery full stop.
Extract from MOS Schedule 2:
2.1
Elements and performance criteria
FAE-8.1 – Recover from spin
perform pre-manoeuvre checks;
enter and establish an upright spin;
identify upright spin and direction of yaw;
close throttle;
stop yaw;
unstall wing by reducing AOA;
recover to controlled flight;
recover within the number of turns normally required for upright spin recovery in the aircraft type, within the aircraft and height limitations.
Moving the control column to somewhere near / forward of neutral won't achieve "unstall wing by reducing AOA".
I'd go a step further, I'm not sure they know the correct spin recovery full stop.
Extract from MOS Schedule 2:
2.1
Elements and performance criteria
FAE-8.1 – Recover from spin
perform pre-manoeuvre checks;
enter and establish an upright spin;
identify upright spin and direction of yaw;
close throttle;
stop yaw;
unstall wing by reducing AOA;
recover to controlled flight;
recover within the number of turns normally required for upright spin recovery in the aircraft type, within the aircraft and height limitations.
Moving the control column to somewhere near / forward of neutral won't achieve "unstall wing by reducing AOA".
Last edited by roundsounds; 12th Feb 2016 at 19:40.
Moving the control column to somewhere near / forward of neutral won't achieve "unstable wing by reducing AOA
Given that they operated their own Chipmunk and the demonstrably poor knowledge and deficiencies in the techniques being taught, it seems that a Chipmunk spinning accident was only a matter of time, wouldn't you agree?
The school is named (peripherally) in the report.
Sorry, poorly worded statement. I was trying to say the Chippy will happily continue to spin hands off all the way to the ground. However, it will always recover, but you must use the correct technique. The hands off, stomp on the nearest rudder pedal “party trick” method being taught by some experts might be ok in a Robin but it won’t work in a Chippy!
At the risk of the dreaded thread-drift, has anyone any information about the recent VH-RSM accident at Luskintyre? From what little I've gleaned, it sounds like another emminently avoidable Chipmunk accident.
I don't doubt that the brake being left partially on caused some of the early RAF accidents; indeed when I learnt to fly in 1961 ensuring that the handle was off was dinned into me repeatedly,
My memory tells me that, in at least two of the Australian losses, the brakes were found in the "taxi" position, two/three notches on.
Tootle pip!!
My experience in the UK, exactly, as was applying recovery control to the control stops. "Brakes Off" was number one item of the pre-aerobatic check.
My memory tells me that, in at least two of the Australian losses, the brakes were found in the "taxi" position, two/three notches on.
Tootle pip!!
My memory tells me that, in at least two of the Australian losses, the brakes were found in the "taxi" position, two/three notches on.
Tootle pip!!