Light plane crash in the Barossa Valley S.A.
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The pilot was 44 mostlytosser.
Usually comments from first on the scene are the most correct. Then over time they degrade and are affected by what has been read and heard.
I was once first on the scene at a car crash when the driver who caused the crash said to me straight out that he was sleepy and missed the red.
By the time the cops came his brakes had allegedly failed.
By the time insurance companies got involved he was saying that the other car went through a red.
I was also a witness in a couple of court cases including a murder trial. It's amazing what details stay in your head but equally surprising what leaves over the year or two it takes to complete a trial.
Usually comments from first on the scene are the most correct. Then over time they degrade and are affected by what has been read and heard.
I was once first on the scene at a car crash when the driver who caused the crash said to me straight out that he was sleepy and missed the red.
By the time the cops came his brakes had allegedly failed.
By the time insurance companies got involved he was saying that the other car went through a red.
I was also a witness in a couple of court cases including a murder trial. It's amazing what details stay in your head but equally surprising what leaves over the year or two it takes to complete a trial.
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For those exact same reasons - if you're a witness to a major event that means your evidence will be required in any court or inquest - it pays to write down everything you've perceived you've witnessed, as soon as possible after the event.
Then the only problem is, whether you saw what you thought you saw.
A year or two after the event, all kinds of other memories intrude on your memory of the event, making many details fuzzy, or just outright wrong.
Then the only problem is, whether you saw what you thought you saw.
A year or two after the event, all kinds of other memories intrude on your memory of the event, making many details fuzzy, or just outright wrong.
'tossas I'm guessing you haven't had the pleasure of dealing with the ladies and gentlemen (and I use the terms loosely) of the press. They aren't paid the big bucks because they don't have a good handle on human nature. All too easy to catch someone who is a little shocked and lend an apparently sympathetic ear. (I've mostly managed to avoid being made to say things I didn't want to thanks to some good training and genetic cussedness, but freely admit to being lead well astray by someone of the intelligence variety - and no she wasn't young and sultry, reminded me of a favourite aunt actually. Never say never.)
An unwarranted swipe at our bystander aside, geez but that Teccie has been reduced to kitform, some of the photos doing the rounds really are a little graphic. One of the newsites had a video clip showing a headset hanging off the tail by its cable, those poor blokes didn't have too long to consider their situation I wouldn't have thought.
Re the possible cable strike, sounds plausible deb, does anyone know any more - are there any along their course in the area?
An unwarranted swipe at our bystander aside, geez but that Teccie has been reduced to kitform, some of the photos doing the rounds really are a little graphic. One of the newsites had a video clip showing a headset hanging off the tail by its cable, those poor blokes didn't have too long to consider their situation I wouldn't have thought.
Re the possible cable strike, sounds plausible deb, does anyone know any more - are there any along their course in the area?
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The first on the scene at accidents like this are rarely official responders like police, ambos, firies, etc but civvies instead who are completely unprepared for a cat5ed airplane crashing in their midst. I feel sorry for these people who are scarred by what they find before the tarp is put down and sometimes quoted long before they've had time to think through the ramifications of what they might say.
I once arrived on a similar crash scene not long after the event and spoke to the fella who was first on the scene. A salt of the earth farmer but rocked to the core by the sight.
I once arrived on a similar crash scene not long after the event and spoke to the fella who was first on the scene. A salt of the earth farmer but rocked to the core by the sight.
Nasty business this aviation game especially at that level. One has gotta feel for the families at this time having their private life plastered all over the newspapers & other media outlets inc here, ugly & very sad
'JJoe' is very correct there the first people on scene would be shocked for life.
There could be a few reasons as to why we find ourselves here chatting about this sad event, structural failure, WX related & another which I won't mention 'cause now is not the time but hopefully their deaths are not totally in vain.
I only hope these fellows didn't have time to scratch themselves b4 it was all over, a little comfort knowing that it was sudden for the families.
Wmk2
'JJoe' is very correct there the first people on scene would be shocked for life.
There could be a few reasons as to why we find ourselves here chatting about this sad event, structural failure, WX related & another which I won't mention 'cause now is not the time but hopefully their deaths are not totally in vain.
I only hope these fellows didn't have time to scratch themselves b4 it was all over, a little comfort knowing that it was sudden for the families.
Wmk2
The thing that worries me about this accident, is the structural failure. Aircraft should sustain very substantial loads without falling apart. Yeah, Yeah I know there are limits but I am wondering about the light sport aircraft. I have seen damage on a Sportstar and a Carbon Cub that I would not have expected to see on an aircraft that was mistreated in the manner that they were. I see plenty of RV's that are mistreated by the same amount, yet dont even look like falling apart. Maybe I am expecting too much from light sport aircraft, Or maybe they need some restrictions on them that at this moment dont exist.Am I wrong, maybe, or even probably, but its what I think.
I might also add that production aircraft ( i.e your Cessna ) doesnt seem to be as delicate as the light sport.
I might also add that production aircraft ( i.e your Cessna ) doesnt seem to be as delicate as the light sport.
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I don't know about the Golf but its immediate successor, the P2002, comes in a fully EASA-certified version (the JF), with typical load certifications for 'normal' category use. Both designs are very classic all metal aircraft, with steel structure. The question about restrictions reminds me of the discussion about the Piper Mirages or the classical fork tailed doctor killers. Too soon to be looking at restrictions I'd say, unless it's in the area of more RA training. What other restriction could you sensibly apply?
That said, I have no idea of the qualifications of the pilot in this tragic accident.
Edit: +6, -3 G ultimate loading on the Golf. Similar, but bit less than, normal category C150 etc if my recollection of limit loads is correct, and using 50% upscale for ultimate load.
That said, I have no idea of the qualifications of the pilot in this tragic accident.
Edit: +6, -3 G ultimate loading on the Golf. Similar, but bit less than, normal category C150 etc if my recollection of limit loads is correct, and using 50% upscale for ultimate load.
Last edited by tecman; 27th Jun 2014 at 11:22.
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Leaving aside the possible causes etc of this tragic event; I just wish to post that I have attended a few aviation crashes over the years and I have one firm, inviolable principle when it comes to members of the Media;
I say nothing to them! Ever!! If approached I simply walk off. If they persist I invite them, politely, to leave!
I recommend this to fellow PPruners.
I say nothing to them! Ever!! If approached I simply walk off. If they persist I invite them, politely, to leave!
I recommend this to fellow PPruners.
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You may be confusing flight limit and ultimate load. I happen to have a C150M manual on my desk at the moment. For the normal category the flight (not ultimate) load factors are +4.4, -1.76 while for the Aerobat they are +6, -3. For the P2002JF they are +3.8, -1.9 (all with no flap).
I would not be surprised at the Golf ultimate loading, since presumably Tecnam do satisfy EASA during the certification process of the 2002JF, a similar aircraft. I think there's also the obligatory feel-good wing loading picture somewhere.
I would not be surprised at the Golf ultimate loading, since presumably Tecnam do satisfy EASA during the certification process of the 2002JF, a similar aircraft. I think there's also the obligatory feel-good wing loading picture somewhere.
Last edited by tecman; 27th Jun 2014 at 11:54.
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I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned about the design, build and integrity of the airframe of these aircraft. It's all about where you point the nose really and what you run into, or don't. This aircraft has a solid and certified design heritage and is not made in someone's backyard in central NSW for example.
Mate, I dont know, but have you ever had a look at the structure of these things, how lightly they are built? I am not against the category as such, I am just saying maybe they need some control on the way they are used, you know, the same as every other aircraft on earth.
I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned about the design, build and integrity of the airframe of these aircraft
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Arnold, from your earlier post you implied you'd never looked at a Tecnam. Far from perfect (what aircraft is?) but a classic, strong little aircraft. Just be aware that like all classes of aircraft there are considerable variations across a given category.
You're entitled to your view but, as I said earlier, apart from more RA pilot training, I can't think of any sensible restriction you could apply, the day VFR limit already applying (except to later P2002JFs, which are NVFR certified).
You're entitled to your view but, as I said earlier, apart from more RA pilot training, I can't think of any sensible restriction you could apply, the day VFR limit already applying (except to later P2002JFs, which are NVFR certified).
Arnold, from your earlier post you implied you'd never looked at a Tecnam.
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I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could rip a wing off almost any standard aircraft. Like I said it's all about where you point the nose. I'm thinking Aero Commander severe turb north of Melbourne for example.
No limits on the aircraft should be imposed, just a greater emphasis in VFR into IMC.
No limits on the aircraft should be imposed, just a greater emphasis in VFR into IMC.
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Edit: +6, -3 G ultimate loading on the Golf. Similar, but bit less than, normal category C150 etc if my recollection of limit loads is correct, and using 50% upscale for ultimate load.
I'm not suggesting that's what occurred here, just a consideration.
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Pinky - re your post #29.
I was once a witness to an 'occurrence' and was asked by the press - "What happened?"
My response was measured and considered.
Guess what? The b@stards did a 'cut and paste' job on it. I learned my lesson for once and for good then.
Take note of Pinky's post, guys.
I was once a witness to an 'occurrence' and was asked by the press - "What happened?"
My response was measured and considered.
Guess what? The b@stards did a 'cut and paste' job on it. I learned my lesson for once and for good then.
Take note of Pinky's post, guys.
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Pinky - re your post #29.
I was once a witness to an 'occurrence' and was asked by the press - "What happened?"
My response was measured and considered.
Guess what? The b@stards did a 'cut and paste' job on it. I learned my lesson for once and for good then.
Take note of Pinky's post, guys.
I was once a witness to an 'occurrence' and was asked by the press - "What happened?"
My response was measured and considered.
Guess what? The b@stards did a 'cut and paste' job on it. I learned my lesson for once and for good then.
Take note of Pinky's post, guys.