Perfect Example Of CASA Outrageaous Behaviour?
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One kind word deserves another.
There are some first class posts on the Medical & Health board – here on Pprune; the CVD thread putting forward some intelligent, logical counter arguments. Bravo, and never, ever quit.
Fruet Mich # 356.
Fruet Mich # 356.
Guys, I am a Captain with an airline flying jets in the Southern Hemisphere. I have many thousands of hours flight experience and have been flying now for over twenty years. I have not once experienced issues with colour deficiency in my professional aviation career.
I have sat the CAD test and have failed. Previous to this I have sat many colour vision tests, some I have passed and some I have failed. The tests I have consistently passed with 100% pass rate are any practical environmental test. I have passed PAPI test, tower gun tests and a pratical flight test during day and at night, I do not pass the CAD however.
As I have said, I have sat the CAD test and have failed. The CAD test has zero relevance to a pilots environment. For one, it's a synthetic light test done in a synthetic environment asking the applicant to to distinguish rapidly moving coloured targets in the dark after your eyes have had time to adjust. Please explain where in aviation would you ever have to distinguish multiple coloured lights moving rapidly in a controlled synthetic environment? But hey, I'm just a mere professional pilot with no idea about colour and aviation, I should leave that to the non colour deficient, non professional pilots that designed this test.
The CAD test is only good for distinguishing if the applicant is in fact colour deficient, that's all.
As a professional aviator we use an assortment of visual cues to establish whether we are safely "on approach". In the modern day cockpit we have many tools at hand, not just the PAPI lights. We must utilise all the tools at hand to safely fly an approach. On CAT2 and CAT 3B approaches you do not even use the PAPI as guidance. We certainly don't confuse ourselves with rapidly moving lights.
As professional pilots we adjust to our environment, much like colour deficient drivers having to distinguish traffic lights. You might see the lights as a slightly deferent colour, but your brain learns to adapt to your environment of which we work, day in, day out.
Military pilots have been navigating safely on night vision goggles for many years now without incidence. Night vision goggles do not display colour.
I have contributed to the legal challenge in Australia and suggest anyone who is pursuing a professional pilots career in the future should do the same. Google CVDPA.
I have sat the CAD test and have failed. Previous to this I have sat many colour vision tests, some I have passed and some I have failed. The tests I have consistently passed with 100% pass rate are any practical environmental test. I have passed PAPI test, tower gun tests and a pratical flight test during day and at night, I do not pass the CAD however.
As I have said, I have sat the CAD test and have failed. The CAD test has zero relevance to a pilots environment. For one, it's a synthetic light test done in a synthetic environment asking the applicant to to distinguish rapidly moving coloured targets in the dark after your eyes have had time to adjust. Please explain where in aviation would you ever have to distinguish multiple coloured lights moving rapidly in a controlled synthetic environment? But hey, I'm just a mere professional pilot with no idea about colour and aviation, I should leave that to the non colour deficient, non professional pilots that designed this test.
The CAD test is only good for distinguishing if the applicant is in fact colour deficient, that's all.
As a professional aviator we use an assortment of visual cues to establish whether we are safely "on approach". In the modern day cockpit we have many tools at hand, not just the PAPI lights. We must utilise all the tools at hand to safely fly an approach. On CAT2 and CAT 3B approaches you do not even use the PAPI as guidance. We certainly don't confuse ourselves with rapidly moving lights.
As professional pilots we adjust to our environment, much like colour deficient drivers having to distinguish traffic lights. You might see the lights as a slightly deferent colour, but your brain learns to adapt to your environment of which we work, day in, day out.
Military pilots have been navigating safely on night vision goggles for many years now without incidence. Night vision goggles do not display colour.
I have contributed to the legal challenge in Australia and suggest anyone who is pursuing a professional pilots career in the future should do the same. Google CVDPA.
Last edited by Kharon; 9th Jun 2014 at 23:10. Reason: Cheers - Shucks you guys.
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In the meantime, CASA has written to all potentially affected pilots advising them to consider whether it is safe for them to continue to exercise their flight crew privileges subject only to the existing CVD- related condition, and encouraging them to seek the advice of their personal physician or Designated Aviation Medical Examiner about any adjustments that should be made to their flying practices, pending the outcome of CASA’s review.
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Spot On AFAP.
Well done the Federation – they have sent a very nicely worded, if pointed –letter- to the powers that be. The call for a retraction is gathering some weight now, as well it should.
Great to see support from industry groups, that's VIPA and AFAP standing behind, holding the jackets of those who will, with any luck deflate some ego's and pin some ears back.
One of the most compelling arguments for doing away with CV restrictions and impositions comes from FM – just about says it all.
Great to see support from industry groups, that's VIPA and AFAP standing behind, holding the jackets of those who will, with any luck deflate some ego's and pin some ears back.
One of the most compelling arguments for doing away with CV restrictions and impositions comes from FM – just about says it all.
Military pilots have been navigating safely on night vision goggles for many years now without incidence. Night vision goggles do not display colour.
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If CASA do not trust a qualified, medical DAME to issue a Pilot Medical, I wonder how and why they think an AOC holder is qualified to make a determination on a pilot's colour vision? 
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couldn't lie straight in bed!!
How not to instil enthusisam into someone who had done well, and who continued to do so within the airline until they chose to retire.It may well be that the astute Senator (who can see a bull****ter who is bull****ting about bull****, without even wearing NVG) may yet question him to the point where he does his scone.
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Well done AFAP!
Kharon - yes - a great letter from the Feds! 
As Sarcs points out in The Empire Strikes Back, perhaps another letter may be needed after this correspondence was received by CVD pilots yesterday...
"...The AFAP believes it is unreasonable and inappropriate that CASA is asking companies or the affected pilots to make assessments about their ability to hold a medical certificate. CASA issued the medical certificates in question and the affected pilots have been operating under these certificates in good faith.
AOC holders and the pilots themselves are not privy to the "recent medical research" to which CASA refers in its letter nor are they medically qualified to make the assessment requested. If CASA wish to change the regulations regarding colour vision then CASA should follow the correct and established processes. CASA’s letter of 5 June 2014 is in our view an abuse of process.
We request that CASA formally retract the letter of 5 June 2014.
Please also be aware that we will be supporting any of our members who are unfairly discriminated against as a result of CASA’s letter..."
AOC holders and the pilots themselves are not privy to the "recent medical research" to which CASA refers in its letter nor are they medically qualified to make the assessment requested. If CASA wish to change the regulations regarding colour vision then CASA should follow the correct and established processes. CASA’s letter of 5 June 2014 is in our view an abuse of process.
We request that CASA formally retract the letter of 5 June 2014.
Please also be aware that we will be supporting any of our members who are unfairly discriminated against as a result of CASA’s letter..."
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if you had something that was structurally deficient in an aircraft it would be modified so that it wasn't structurally deficient.
the recent replacement of Tiger Moth tie rods is a perfect example.
the aircraft were fixed and can continue to fly.
in the case of a Colour vision deficit pilot they lack some of the 'rods' and 'cones' structures in the retina of their eyes. this is a genetic thing like being born with 6 toes on a foot.
in the worst case of the deficit the person can only see in shades of grey.
but they aren't blind. they can still see with the same high definition as a person with the full expected compliment of 'rods' and 'cones'.
they, unlike the nutters in CAsA, have no mental deficit.
we, the pilots of australia, should get behind our fellow pilots affected by this CAsA nonsense and legally hammer the CAsA fcukwits into the dirt.
this CAsA action is utter dribble.
the recent replacement of Tiger Moth tie rods is a perfect example.
the aircraft were fixed and can continue to fly.
in the case of a Colour vision deficit pilot they lack some of the 'rods' and 'cones' structures in the retina of their eyes. this is a genetic thing like being born with 6 toes on a foot.
in the worst case of the deficit the person can only see in shades of grey.
but they aren't blind. they can still see with the same high definition as a person with the full expected compliment of 'rods' and 'cones'.
they, unlike the nutters in CAsA, have no mental deficit.
we, the pilots of australia, should get behind our fellow pilots affected by this CAsA nonsense and legally hammer the CAsA fcukwits into the dirt.
this CAsA action is utter dribble.
Explain to me why the letter from CASA to CVD pilots is not good old fashioned. Bullying? If an employer tried something like this they would be prosecuted in the blink of an eye. Why is CASA exempt?
CASA needs to grow a pair and be a regulator. Either declare that CVD is not acceptable, cancel licences and take the ensuing legal challenges, or honour the licences they have issued.
This is classic CASA wanting to impose some unique position they have devised without scrutiny, transparent process and avoiding right of appeal.
CASA needs to grow a pair and be a regulator. Either declare that CVD is not acceptable, cancel licences and take the ensuing legal challenges, or honour the licences they have issued.
This is classic CASA wanting to impose some unique position they have devised without scrutiny, transparent process and avoiding right of appeal.
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Unable to sleep last night - worrying about the possible demise of my career, loss of earnings, loss of house , loss of life - I eventually slipped off and was rewarded by the most beautiful dream of a perfect world........
.... where CASA had a proactive experienced legislator/experienced pilot at the helm and the medical department was led by a trustworthy and utterly fair experienced doctor who was also a pilot.
Cast:
Director of Aviation Safety: David Fawcett
Principal medical officer: Dr A. M. Pape
Who appoints the DAS? I want to go camp on their lawn - then THEY wont be able to sleep.
.... where CASA had a proactive experienced legislator/experienced pilot at the helm and the medical department was led by a trustworthy and utterly fair experienced doctor who was also a pilot.
Cast:
Director of Aviation Safety: David Fawcett
Principal medical officer: Dr A. M. Pape
Who appoints the DAS? I want to go camp on their lawn - then THEY wont be able to sleep.
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Clearly a case of someone in CASA trying hard to justify their job in an era of Federal Budget cut-backs. The irony is that after trying to defend this ridiculousness when challenged in court, they would have cost themselves (ie. us, the taxpayer) hugely and more than likely lost.
Sen Fawcett
As someone who has reassembled some of the broken crockery over the years, I believe you should keep pressing your most logical and well argued points.
I suspect it may end like this:
He wasn't called the 'Screaming Skull' in his last career for no reason. He makes his predecessor 'the Ayatollah' look positively mild by comparison.
Whilst I see prevarication in his responses, do not be fooled. This is his agenda. Why he has chosen to bring it up is, I suspect, only known to himself (given that there are a number of pilots in his previous company that are CVD). However, once he has an agenda, he is like a dog with a bone.
Good luck to all colleagues that have been caught in the cross-hairs. I will be contributing.
As someone who has reassembled some of the broken crockery over the years, I believe you should keep pressing your most logical and well argued points.
I suspect it may end like this:
He wasn't called the 'Screaming Skull' in his last career for no reason. He makes his predecessor 'the Ayatollah' look positively mild by comparison.
Whilst I see prevarication in his responses, do not be fooled. This is his agenda. Why he has chosen to bring it up is, I suspect, only known to himself (given that there are a number of pilots in his previous company that are CVD). However, once he has an agenda, he is like a dog with a bone.
Good luck to all colleagues that have been caught in the cross-hairs. I will be contributing.
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Whygen
Clearly a case of someone in CASA trying hard to justify their job in an era of Federal Budget cut-backs. The irony is that after trying to defend this ridiculousness when challenged in court, they would have cost themselves (ie. us, the taxpayer) hugely and more than likely lost.
Clearly a case of someone in CASA trying hard to justify their job in an era of Federal Budget cut-backs. The irony is that after trying to defend this ridiculousness when challenged in court, they would have cost themselves (ie. us, the taxpayer) hugely and more than likely lost.
old akro Explain to me why the letter from CASA to CVD pilots is not good old fashioned. Bullying? If an employer tried something like this they would be prosecuted in the blink of an eye. Why is CASA exempt?
Then VR-HFX says pretty much the same.
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W8.
There are so many variations of CVD, probably as many pilots. The most common are in the red/green, blue/green or Blue/violet regions of the spectrum. Monochrome vision is very, very rare.
My own 'Cvd' means that I can see discriminate and detect hues of blue and yellow at sensitivities far greater than most people. This means that I have trouble with Isihara (because the blues and yellows stand out more readily than the reds and greens), but none at all with the lantern test or signal lights.
As a result of my 'defect', I can see when there is too much blue or yellow pigment in 'white' paints where most people can't. I can also discriminate between white and yellow nautical markers at further distances and in low light than most people ( I was recently perplexed in a yacht race that the crew were heading towards a white mooring bouy when, to me, the yellow turn-point marker was about 30 degrees to the port).
There is some solid longstanding evidence that individuals with my "cvd" as less likely to be fooled by military camouflage. During ww2 we were selected for roles as snipers and artillery spotters as a result.
With the above in mind, the concept of "defect" is relative. 50,000 years ago, we were the guys who brought home the mammoth to feed the rest of the tribe, spotted the Sabre-Tooth Tiger before it spotted us. Hell, they probably would have made us the Chief
There are so many variations of CVD, probably as many pilots. The most common are in the red/green, blue/green or Blue/violet regions of the spectrum. Monochrome vision is very, very rare.
My own 'Cvd' means that I can see discriminate and detect hues of blue and yellow at sensitivities far greater than most people. This means that I have trouble with Isihara (because the blues and yellows stand out more readily than the reds and greens), but none at all with the lantern test or signal lights.
As a result of my 'defect', I can see when there is too much blue or yellow pigment in 'white' paints where most people can't. I can also discriminate between white and yellow nautical markers at further distances and in low light than most people ( I was recently perplexed in a yacht race that the crew were heading towards a white mooring bouy when, to me, the yellow turn-point marker was about 30 degrees to the port).
There is some solid longstanding evidence that individuals with my "cvd" as less likely to be fooled by military camouflage. During ww2 we were selected for roles as snipers and artillery spotters as a result.
With the above in mind, the concept of "defect" is relative. 50,000 years ago, we were the guys who brought home the mammoth to feed the rest of the tribe, spotted the Sabre-Tooth Tiger before it spotted us. Hell, they probably would have made us the Chief
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He wasn't called the 'Screaming Skull' in his last career for no reason. He makes his predecessor 'the Ayatollah' look positively mild by comparison.
The below link refers to him and his mates;
The 49ers Story - the Star Chamber
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Isn't the time honoured method of getting rid of demons to drive a wooden stake through the heart? I think we all need to show up to the casa offices enmass holding sharpened wooden stakes.
To Anthill and all the other guys with CVD according to the mengele school of medicine now running in CAsA.
YOU ARE NOT DEFECTIVE. it is simply the case that your genetic makeup has created a different eye structure. that variation is a normal aspect of the slow evolution of the human species. how can anyone but a fcukwit CAsA medico ever be arrogant enough to say that an eye difference is a defect has me shaking my head.
when I was down fitting a gps mount to my instrument panel last night I took some time to look at the private flying environment. if you can make sense of a visual terminal chart then there is absolutely nothing in the private flying environment that is colour dependent.
bye the bye I'm told by one of the descendants that the big joke about the white blond haired master race so promoted by hitler is that most of them are moderately to severely colour blind.
these ex-raaf "we know safety" iron circle in CAsA are absolutely insane nutters. there is no other term for their actions in pursuing this senseless bastardry.
To Anthill and all the other guys with CVD according to the mengele school of medicine now running in CAsA.
YOU ARE NOT DEFECTIVE. it is simply the case that your genetic makeup has created a different eye structure. that variation is a normal aspect of the slow evolution of the human species. how can anyone but a fcukwit CAsA medico ever be arrogant enough to say that an eye difference is a defect has me shaking my head.
when I was down fitting a gps mount to my instrument panel last night I took some time to look at the private flying environment. if you can make sense of a visual terminal chart then there is absolutely nothing in the private flying environment that is colour dependent.
bye the bye I'm told by one of the descendants that the big joke about the white blond haired master race so promoted by hitler is that most of them are moderately to severely colour blind.
these ex-raaf "we know safety" iron circle in CAsA are absolutely insane nutters. there is no other term for their actions in pursuing this senseless bastardry.
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these ex-raaf "we know safety" iron circle in CAsA are absolutely insane nutters. there is no other term for their actions in pursuing this senseless bastardry.
