Do we mumble on the radio in Oz?
Tio,
Not that it is a big deal, but you will find it was once "Traffic..." .
I remember clearly (as I was once more pedantic than I am now) when instructing, trying to get my students do 'do it right'.
Just as I have missed the reversion to '.... Traffic' , perhaps you might have missed it also.
Anyone have any documental evidence of the change??
Not that it is a big deal, but you will find it was once "Traffic..." .
I remember clearly (as I was once more pedantic than I am now) when instructing, trying to get my students do 'do it right'.
Just as I have missed the reversion to '.... Traffic' , perhaps you might have missed it also.
Anyone have any documental evidence of the change??
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You're right CF but in fact "Traffic XXX..." preceded, or at least co-existed with,the widespread "All stations..." era. I've reached the end of my aviation history (mid-80s) but seem to recall that, while "Traffic XXX.." was not universal, it was widely used and obviously well tolerated in an era where people were generally more anal about such things than they are now.
Flying in the US in the early 90s I remember being impressed with the idea of also adding the CTAF (or whatever it was called there at the time) location to the end of the broadcast, the redundancy making for better communication on crowded frequencies. That was a later change for the better here.
We're in danger of having the thread re-titled "communications trivia" or some such
Flying in the US in the early 90s I remember being impressed with the idea of also adding the CTAF (or whatever it was called there at the time) location to the end of the broadcast, the redundancy making for better communication on crowded frequencies. That was a later change for the better here.
We're in danger of having the thread re-titled "communications trivia" or some such
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The current proliferation of non standard radio phraseology packed with 'currently', 'traffic south of the equator' and 'inbound from Los Angeles' (who cares where you were 14 hours ago, where are you now?) is the worst I can remember, and just clogs the airways. Sadly the AIP has much of the information removed, and replaced with bunkum.
'Currently' is not in he AIP either, but has been adopted as a standard.
'Currently' is not in he AIP either, but has been adopted as a standard.
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If you cannot make out a transmission and have no idea who said it, but have an inkling it might be relevant to you, what's a nice way of asking "Last transmssion, WTF did you say?"
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VH-XXX:
A "high speed PC9" would not make such a ridiculous call. He/she would say "inbound on the 260 RADIAL". It's not rocket science. If the airport had an NDB instead, he/she would say "inbound on the 260 BEARING".
A radial is ONLY applicable to a VOR. Another common, incorrect use of phraseology.
Perhaps... but....
Here is a classic example of why a radial is a bad idea.... McGrath50 has just turned it around (be it by accident or just for the purposes of the conversation) and used the term "on the 260 bearing." Is the high speed PC9 on a 260 bearing, heading west, or is he inbound on the 260 radial?
Here is a classic example of why a radial is a bad idea.... McGrath50 has just turned it around (be it by accident or just for the purposes of the conversation) and used the term "on the 260 bearing." Is the high speed PC9 on a 260 bearing, heading west, or is he inbound on the 260 radial?
A radial is ONLY applicable to a VOR. Another common, incorrect use of phraseology.
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Correct you are vnav.... The point was that as soon as I mentioned a radial, the other poster reversed it and seemingly confused with a bearing, either intentionally or not. For those not briefed in the specifics, both are easily confused.
Late night PPRuNeing strikes again! You are right, I used bearing when you said radial. How about its an airport with both an NDB and VOR and my plane is only ADF equipped? 
I also abbreviated the correct call, let's try "East Sale Traffic, ABC, PC9, 32 miles to the west inbound on the 260 radial (or bearing, would be just about the same give or take a few degrees)"
Should probably throw in an altitude there. Now we have the pedantry out of the way (I seriously hope I got it correct this time), what is so hard for a first solo nav student to understand? If he catches 32 miles to the west but doesn't understand the radial and there's conflict, speak up and ask. I know I didn't have a grasp on bearings and radials on my first solo nav, but my gosh I should have, it's not difficult if someone takes 5 mins to explain it to you!
One thing my instructor did instill in me though before I blasted off was if someone makes a call you don't understand better to ask them, in plain english if necessary. We've all been the solo student coming face to face with a dash on an IFR approach you've never heard of. No (good) pilot is going to think any less of you for speaking up. It's the guys who don't that cause problems.
I also abbreviated the correct call, let's try "East Sale Traffic, ABC, PC9, 32 miles to the west inbound on the 260 radial (or bearing, would be just about the same give or take a few degrees)"
Should probably throw in an altitude there. Now we have the pedantry out of the way (I seriously hope I got it correct this time), what is so hard for a first solo nav student to understand? If he catches 32 miles to the west but doesn't understand the radial and there's conflict, speak up and ask. I know I didn't have a grasp on bearings and radials on my first solo nav, but my gosh I should have, it's not difficult if someone takes 5 mins to explain it to you!
One thing my instructor did instill in me though before I blasted off was if someone makes a call you don't understand better to ask them, in plain english if necessary. We've all been the solo student coming face to face with a dash on an IFR approach you've never heard of. No (good) pilot is going to think any less of you for speaking up. It's the guys who don't that cause problems.
I support the "Traffic Oodnagalahby,..." instead of placing the name first - because when the fumble-fingered switch flicker cuts off half of his first word, we will still know where he is, instead of having to wait until the end of his call for him to repeat the place name.
Also for the IFR people to include VFR descriptions:
"Traffic Kingaroy, Cessna Whisky Delta Echo, 6 miles northwest at 3700', turning inbound on the NDB, traffic Kingaroy"
"Traffic Hervey Bay, helicopter Hotel Echo Gecko, 10 miles northwest approaching Whisky Foxtrot for straight-in approach runway 11 Hervey Bay"
Also for the IFR people to include VFR descriptions:
"Traffic Kingaroy, Cessna Whisky Delta Echo, 6 miles northwest at 3700', turning inbound on the NDB, traffic Kingaroy"
"Traffic Hervey Bay, helicopter Hotel Echo Gecko, 10 miles northwest approaching Whisky Foxtrot for straight-in approach runway 11 Hervey Bay"
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Late night PPRuNeing strikes again! You are right, I used bearing when you said radial. How about its an airport with both an NDB and VOR and my plane is only ADF equipped?
I know I didn't have a grasp on bearings and radials on my first solo nav, but my gosh I should have, it's not difficult if someone takes 5 mins to explain it to you!
Last edited by VNAV_PTH; 10th Apr 2014 at 02:38. Reason: Dyslexia
'Currently' is not in he AIP either, but has been adopted as a standard.
Are you there now or not?!??
Ps, the word "time" shouldn't be used either.
This thread is starting to remind me of a Rod Stewart song....not just drifting, but
"We are sailing....we are sailing...."
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Makeithappencaptain, to clarify my position. 'Currently' does not exist, and has never existed to my knowledge in the AIP, but is used universally because some clown thought it sounds good. My position on the word - 'currently' - non standard and rubbish.
Ascend Charlie, you are part of the problem. Create you own non standard phraseology, having not correctly transitioned to the new format and then advocate this on a professional forum.
TIO 540 has been in hibernation for many years, and is now returning to the cave. Safe flying!
Ascend Charlie, you are part of the problem. Create you own non standard phraseology, having not correctly transitioned to the new format and then advocate this on a professional forum.
TIO 540 has been in hibernation for many years, and is now returning to the cave. Safe flying!
TIO540
I am agreeing with you 100%.
You can have "departed (location) (time in minutes)", be "estimating (first or next reporting point) at (time in minutes)", but I ain't never seen no "currently" (not to mention "this time").
Seneca208
As for "IFR departure/taxi", didn't you submit a flight plan?
Aren't they expecting a call from you?
When you were given a code and traffic (which should NOT need to be "requested") didn't that start a sarwatch of ten minutes for your departure?
The only iFR call that needs a notification/announcement is a position report.
Yo ho ho...
I am agreeing with you 100%.
You can have "departed (location) (time in minutes)", be "estimating (first or next reporting point) at (time in minutes)", but I ain't never seen no "currently" (not to mention "this time").
Seneca208
As for "IFR departure/taxi", didn't you submit a flight plan?
Aren't they expecting a call from you?
When you were given a code and traffic (which should NOT need to be "requested") didn't that start a sarwatch of ten minutes for your departure?
The only iFR call that needs a notification/announcement is a position report.
Yo ho ho...
Seneca,
The AIP used to state that IFR was to be included in the taxi call. Like many of the calls we are discussing here, the AIP has changed many of them, and a lot of us are not keeping up with the changes
The AIP used to state that IFR was to be included in the taxi call. Like many of the calls we are discussing here, the AIP has changed many of them, and a lot of us are not keeping up with the changes
What's everyone's thought on "IFR Taxi" and "IFR Departure". The AIP doesn't say much about those either, does it just come down to a courtesy?
"IFR Taxi" "Taxi? I don't see any taxis around here, let alone an IFR one".
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I think I almost got a full house of ****e radio calls when listening to a recent soliloquy:
"Traffic XXXXX, IFR King Air, 40 DME GPS South of the field, descending from airways on descent to 3000, estimating the circuit at time 35, traffic XXXXX"
Clearly Little Man syndrome, who wanted to impress us lowly local traffic with details of his equipment, including its installation, the fact that he'd been flying SO high (because he can) and to top his ineptitude with 'time'. I think I'll start ending my calls with an estimate in bananas; it's an extraneous and bulls*#t transmission so maybe it'll catch on
"Traffic XXXXX, IFR King Air, 40 DME GPS South of the field, descending from airways on descent to 3000, estimating the circuit at time 35, traffic XXXXX"
Clearly Little Man syndrome, who wanted to impress us lowly local traffic with details of his equipment, including its installation, the fact that he'd been flying SO high (because he can) and to top his ineptitude with 'time'. I think I'll start ending my calls with an estimate in bananas; it's an extraneous and bulls*#t transmission so maybe it'll catch on