Not with absolute accuracy, it depends on how quick and safely you can do several things at once.
The fact you are still rolling lessens the effect, but say 200m roughly.
Touch and goes in a Mooney on a short strip
And at night....NEVER do touch and goes. Full stop, taxi back reconfigure go again. If the runway is really long, sure stop first, reconfigure, go again.
Here is a new leaf....jaba and T28D working together.
T28D is definately onto it. I do not have the experience he has here so I will let him deal with that.
however, as far as being organised, flaps set, trims set, pumps on etc etc......at night you see less, and with any cockpit full daylight you are far better organised.
If you want to be organised and sure that everything is well sorted, turn up the lights full bore, pull out your LED Mag Light, and then get ready to go again.
Over to you T28D
PS
Quote:
And at night....NEVER do touch and goes. Full stop, taxi back reconfigure go again. If the runway is really long, sure stop first, reconfigure, go again.
Quote:
And at night....NEVER do touch and goes. Full stop, taxi back reconfigure go again. If the runway is really long, sure stop first, reconfigure, go again.
Quote:
And at night....NEVER do touch and goes. Full stop, taxi back reconfigure go again. If the runway is really long, sure stop first, reconfigure, go again.
Do I need to say this AGAIN????? I was trying to be calm earlier.
And I do not have the night experience of most on this forum, but what I do have is mostly dark.......dark as the inside of a cow! refer above. Live long and aviate!
I think that rule re: touch and goes at night could be applied to any unfamiliar (particularly shortish) strip. Whatever benefit it is imagined circuits during a training Nav might provide, you could be in for a rude shock when you discover how big the gap between published and actual TODR can be in whatever decrepit rust bucket you are in, especially allowing for the standard of technique of your average Ppl trainee.
What my concern is is that students are taught to fill in p charts and then conduct procedures for which they are of little relevance, and I wonder if any rigor is applied in assessing field suitability for touch and go circuits.
As there are no charts for this, it is in the same can of worms as the question given to me by a DCA Examiner when departing on a IR Renewal in a C310.
The vestibular system suffers badly from acceleration in any direction, not just straight line acceleration.
Fluid movement in the canals will lead to the "leans" and other illusionary effects.
A night takeoff into an instrument climb is not the right time to find out you have sensory illusion difficulties.
The transition onto instruments difficult enough without added complication coming from a rushed reconfiguration , a quite sudden change from pitch down in the final phase through flare to runway, re config, now power on and back into theclimb and after T/O checks.
At night all actions should be nice and slow, double check, and if in doubt don't go.
I realise this isn't what you asked about but I have used a couple of transport category AFMs that state touch and go landings shouldn't be performed on runways shorter than the ASDR distance + Takeoff distance required.
Seems reasonable in those types, a bit of fumbling with retrimming etc and the rwy end gets bigger way too quick.
Last edited by Fred Gassit; 2nd Sep 2012 at 23:51.
Getting past the human factors implications others have raised, I imagine the following will have an effect on the answer sought by the OP
1. The difference in speeds between landing and lift off 2. When in the sequence power is applied 3. The time taken to reconfigure the a/c e.g. electric flap and/or trim versus manual operation 4. The all important pilot accuracy, competency and technique. 5. The a/c type in question.
I imagine there are a few others. As has been suggested, ASDA plus TODR isn't a bad start.
Didn't know the night thing was an issue myself. Night circuits as part of a night rating are in my logbook.
Are we talking no touch and go's for beginner pilots or are you saying don't do them ever?
I think of all the times I've seen visitors at night to my local, I've never seen any of them doing full stops and back-tracks (950m). Just an observation; not saying that I disagree with anything that anyone has said here.
Thanks for the replies. I certainly did plenty of t & g's at shortish strips day and night during my training and I don't think anyone thought too hard about the aforementioned issues in signing me out. However a recent scare with a student after the bucket of bolts we were flying failed to get anything like the advertised take off or climb performance has made me think about it pretty hard. The technique of the student couldn't be faulted in this case, which is lucky to say the least, and I really don't like being reliant on luck.
Last edited by walesregent; 3rd Sep 2012 at 04:02.
How far? I would have said... it depends entirely on the pilot, and on the training being conducted.
I have done not-very-competent touch & goes almost to a stop where LDR+TODR was about right. But then I have also done bounce & goes for no purpose at all except fun, which uses hardly any runway.
If you're an instructor, I think LDR+TODR keeps the accidents away, except full stop only at night as others have said. I wouldn't use the word never though - there's always a 4000m x 60m runway somewhere with bright lights and no terrain concerns!
The vestibular system suffers badly from acceleration in any direction, not just straight line acceleration.
Fluid movement in the canals will lead to the "leans" and other illusionary effects.
A night takeoff into an instrument climb is not the right time to find out you have sensory illusion difficulties.
The transition onto instruments difficult enough without added complication coming from a rushed reconfiguration , a quite sudden change from pitch down in the final phase through flare to runway, re config, now power on and back into theclimb and after T/O checks.
At night all actions should be nice and slow, double check, and if in doubt don't go.
1. Leans relates to semicircular canal, somatogravic effect to the otoliths. Not in anyway related. 2. Acceleration in a T&Go isn't going to be any greater than in a takeoff roll, and is actually going to be for a shorter duration so a pilot would likely experience less of a somatogravic effect. 3. Why reconfigure, take off in your touch down configuration... 4. I've done plenty. Hasn't hurt me yet. (and yes I have experienced the somatogravic effect, never on a T&G)
Last edited by flighthappens; 3rd Sep 2012 at 09:58.
I was trying to be calm earlier.
