Save Essendon Airport

fujii · 1st Sep 2012, 10:14

Once again, the Close Essendon Airport Committee is at it with a meeting to be held at the Pascoe Vale Community Centre on Wednesday evening 5th September. The meeting will be addressed by Federal Labor MP Kelvin Thompson. The group is a small noisy minority which uses half truths and false information to support its cause. If Kelvin Thompson is supposed to represent the community and his election depends on a majority vote, it's time to let him know what the majority thinks. Go to his page at www.kelvinthompson.com.au and let him know what you think. Even better go to the meeting and support Essendon. Simply following this post won't make your opinion be heard where it needs to be heard.

Save Essendon. Save aviation jobs.

FokkerInYour12 · 1st Sep 2012, 12:29

Typo on his surname:

Kelvin Thomson MP - Member for Wills

is the site you seek.

neville_nobody · 2nd Sep 2012, 01:55

Someone ask him given the amount of air traffic congestion in Australia right now how on earth can he entertain the idea of closing airports? If he wants YMEN closed what impact does this have on Labor's Aviation policy?

TOUCH-AND-GO · 2nd Sep 2012, 13:22

Fujii could you please provide information on what time this meeting will occur? Thanks.
Can't seem to find anything on his website!

Quote:

If he wants YMEN closed what impact does this have on Labor's Aviation policy?

Wouldn't stress to much about the policy, but more concerned about all the GA/flying school operator jobs that would be lost if YMEN was to be closed.

Any idea on why the committee is considering on shutting down Essendon? Is it because of noise related issues?..

Wally Mk2 · 2nd Sep 2012, 14:23

I believe EN is pretty safe for sometime yet

There's noway that it would be closed down as a drome because of a hand full of fools!
The area of that drome couldn't handle a major housing development due it's already currently inadequate infrastructure.

Wmk2

training wheels · 2nd Sep 2012, 15:53

Isn't some areas of the airport listed as a heritage site? I thought you can't touch sites listed as such?

fujii · 3rd Sep 2012, 06:02

The meeting is at the Pascoe Vale Neighbourhood Centre, 7 Prospect St, Pascoe Vale 7.30pm Melways map 17 A8.

TOUCH-AND-GO · 5th Sep 2012, 12:39

Just arrived back from this meeting and let me assure you, it was very interesting to hear the committee whine about the noise, health (air pollution) and safety risks that are posed by Essendon Airport.

We were handed out a Draft of motions that was summed up by this group!

Quote:

Currently the over fight between Tullamarine air traffic forces and Essendons conflicting Air traffic cause airplanes to fly very low, thus intensifying the noise for residents in Oak park, pascoe vale, Brunswick, Airport west and Essendon. We believe this is an unfair distribution of noise pollution on our community and therefore a environmental injustice.

Here are some points that this community group want Mr. Kelvin Thomson to address to Acting Head of Air Services to discuss among themselves;

-To inform the conflict between Essendon and Melbourne's airspace infringement of controlled airspace and request AS to re-address the approach to Melbourne airport or consider a fixed schedule for which airplanes may land in a specified time frame.

-Request that all traffic flying into Essendon airport to maintain 1500 ft on runway heading before commencing any turn.

-Request Helicopters not to hover more than 5 minutes.

-Request Helicopters to maintain 2500 ft over residential areas.

-Request that Emergency services to be moved to YMML, because 70% of all medical flights are not life threatening. And that in the meantime a curfew from 10pm-7am is imposed for all other flight except emergency flights.

The list keeps going...

We had a gentleman getting all fired up, mentioned that he was fed up with the racket and disturbance that the jets and heli's make! Tolled us that he barely sleeps because of the noise and that he can't breath in fresh air from outside because of the fumes from the jets. And one thing which he said and I will quote is;

Quote:

"I'm really getting sick of it and if it was legal I would grab a shot gun and shoot them out of the sky because their that low"

Another women mentioned, that she had experienced the most terrifying and horrific moment of her life when she saw 5 Roulettes which are apparently 'jets' flying over her house very, very, very, very, very...wait for it....very LOW! And when she called up AS, they said they were probably doing a beat up or a wheels up landing? And those pilots tend to be c

ky!

And when they came in for a landing the the second time they were 46 ft above the threshold.

Inputs anyone?

T&G

michael36 · 5th Sep 2012, 12:51

complaining about pollution! what are these people going on about. I'm pretty sure the tullamarine freeway that encompasses the airport would produce 100 times the amount of those greenhouse gases from those pesky jets ha

Wally Mk2 · 5th Sep 2012, 22:22

I love it,it's at the very least entertaining to read/listen to these 'experts'!
I hope it goes on for many years yet

Move the Emer Services to Tulla...hahah that's a scream especially after the taxpayers spent $20Mill or so in recent years for a new set up for all the emerg services!
Curfew 10-7....damn I wished they had have enforced that when I was working there,talk about a leisurely lifestyle

Pollution?............well the best way to stop any ill effects for these poor unfortunate souls is for them to stop breathing........now there's an idea !

I grew up across the valley (Jacana,tuff place it was)from EN when it was ML's main drome & we kids tried to jump up & touch the DC's as they flew low overhead, that pollution was just awful made me what I am 2day

Next time I'm going via Sheed I'll rev her up a little!

Wmk2

compressor stall · 5th Sep 2012, 23:28

I did some Maths on the level of pollution from trucks and cars vs EN traffic some years ago.

It worked out to be something like six trucks an hour along the Tullamarine fwy equalled all the aircraft traffic...

It will be in one of the previous threads.

compressor stall · 5th Sep 2012, 23:31

From four years ago.

Quote:

The following are rough calculations, and I invite people to refine the very broad data that I have used.

Let's use February data as listed above - 296 movements over 7 tonnes, 3448 below 7 tonnes - this divides nicely by 4 (yes I know it was a leap year, but good enough for now) giving: 74>7000kg and 862<7000kg.

Note movements are defined as a takeoff or landing.

Using the formula: Movements (n) * time in sec (t) /3600 *fuel burn (lt/hr) gives the total fuel for the period.

Let's start with the movements over 7 tonnes. Most are probably GLEX and GIVs. TOGA fuel burn of 1000kg/hr(?) and from start of takeoff roll to "outta there" in 30sec. On landing, 500kg/hr(?) - and 30 sec for approach and landing. That averages at 750kg/hr for 30 seconds per movement - 937lt/hr.

Sooo... 74*30/3600*937 = 577 lt per week.

Now for less than 7000kgs.

20% turboprop (172 movements @ 350lt/hr for 35 sec) = 172*35/3600*350=585lt
40% piston twin (344 movements@ 100lt/hr for 45 sec) = 344*45/3600*100=430lt
40% piston single (344 movements @ 45lt/hr for 45 sec) = 344*45/3600*45=194lt.

Total fuel burnt in the skies around EN airport in one week is 1786 litres.

Now it's 6kms from Bell St to either Airport West Westfield or Keilor Park Drive. How many trucks travelling along the freeway will burn this amount of fuel?

A semi travelling at 100km/h will burn 50lt(?)/100km. That's 3 litres to travel the 6kms.

1786/3 = 595 trucks per week. That's 87 a day. 3 per hour.

So from these rough calculations it shows that just THREE (3) trucks per hour driving along the Freeway from Bell St to Airport West will burn the same fuel as all the aircraft using EN airspace.

Then there's the rest of the trucks, all the cars and all the other streets!

Please comment and correct the assumptions I have made above...

This is a powerful statistic and needs to be refined, vetted and publicised.

Can an ATC provide a further breakdown of the AC types using EN and thier frequency?

Bonniciwah · 6th Sep 2012, 00:25

Was anyone allowed to speak in favour of the airport, or was it just one big NIMBY groupthink whine fest?

alphacentauri · 6th Sep 2012, 01:38

I will start listening to the whinging public, when anyone of them can explain to me their mental state when they knowingly bought or developed a property under a known flight path to a known airport. Extended centreline areas are there for a reason, and it isn't to put a house on.

I always wait for the stunned silence......

Fact. Not one of them acquired their properties before the airport was there.
Fact. Approach paths are not a secret, if you are going to spend that much money on a house then a few dollars for the aero information showing flightpaths is surely within your budget. They are even free, if you know where to look.
Fact. There is no cure for stupid

But for some reason its our fault......

The problem with the public is that normally they are only as smart as the dumbest person in the group.

Posted from PPRuNe.org App for Android

TOUCH-AND-GO · 6th Sep 2012, 11:51

Quote:

Was anyone allowed to speak in favour of the airport, or was it just one big NIMBY groupthink whine fest?

Me, Myself and I plus another chap spoke in favour of the airport. Didn't want to start an argument with a bunch of whiners, as soon as you spoke a word, all heads and eyes turned towards you.

Quote:

I will start listening to the whinging public, when anyone of them can explain to me their mental state when they knowingly bought or developed a property under a known flight path to a known airport. Extended centreline areas are there for a reason, and it isn't to put a house on.

Alphacentauri, This was brought up into the discussion. I was intrigued by the response of along lines.."we were never told about the noise and flight paths associated with the Airport and when forwarded a complaint to AS/CASA they simply replied to get used to it and shut up or relocate

A few more points I wish to bring up;

-The committee suggest that YMEN considers closing down the north/south runway or simply have it shortened from the start of runway East/West.

-The airport should consider constructing an enclosed noise bay for engine run ups or testing ( I wonder who'll pay for that )

T&G

allthecoolnamesarego · 6th Sep 2012, 12:12

T&G,

Good job on attending the meeting and thanks for the report.

Can I quietly mention that 'tolled' and 'told' have different meanings...

Quote:

"we were never tolled about the noise and flight paths associated with the Airport and when forwarded a complaint to AS/CASA they simply replied to get used to it and shut up or relocate

I'm sure they were never charged for the noise or flight paths.....

TOUCH-AND-GO · 6th Sep 2012, 12:27

Thanks for pointing that out champ! Kinda realised my typo after I posted the reply. Shall edit right away.

T&G.

metalman2 · 6th Sep 2012, 21:37

When will the next meeting be on, I'd like to attend if possible, I would suggest that every pilot who could be there ( with an interest in keeping Essenden ) should make an effort.
Could it be posted here ,the next meeting time and date, please?

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