I can't help but aggreeing with the innumerable posters who have disagreed with yours!
Did you really use the trim to assist in the flare in "a heavy jet"??? This would suggest (to me) either shoddy standards or that a Checker never caught you doing this.
And:
Quote:
Some heavy jets also have a load relief auto trimer that is active until 500ft AGL (radio alt) and you will be unable to fly with fwd pressure on the stick.
Which heavy jet? I flew the heaviest civil one of them all (at least until the advent of the A380) and I don't recall an load relief auto trimmer - but it was a long time ago (getting my defence in early here)...
Location: As far away as possible from some idiots
Posts: 101
No, I did not use auto-trim to 'assist the flare'.
If you read carefully, I am saying that you can not fly the aircraft B737-400) deliberately out of trim above 500 ft AGL and it is also not good practice to do so due to distractions like checklists, etc. I also did not run the trimmer during the flare, as it will strain the auto-trimmer machanism.
You need click-click the trimmer just before you start reducing the thrust, pushing slightly forward (not to change your touchdown point) and relieving the forward pressure as you close the throttles. Relieving the fwd pressure actually makes the aircraft flare itself. Looking at the end of the runway, you will have a natural tendency to pull just hard enough to touch the main wheels first.
Yes, the checkies were happy with it as long as I was aware of the stronger nose-up pitch on the go-around. So, it is better to go click-click once you are asured of the landing.
The 210 is an easy aeroplane to land. Just remember though it will feel different to land (as in the pitch force required to get the aircraft in the landing attitude) with a forward C of G as opposed to an aft C of G. The rest is pretty much what morno suggested earlier. 75 kts down final and get the power off at roundout. If you don't, it will only lengthen the landing process and give youself more time to fcuk things up. By the way I retard the power all the way to idle regardless how heavy the aircraft is. And when you do look down the end of the runway as someone above suggested, don't forget to note what attitude the aircraft is in (that's why we down the end in the first place). If the attitude appears to be a bit on the flat side, do something about, apply a bit more back pressure on the yoke and keep the nose well and truly clear of the pavement. Works every time!
Last edited by gassed budgie; 15th Jul 2012 at 04:15.
Here we are, well into the second page, with instructions on how to land a 210. If the aviation industry finds it necessary to use this forum as an instructional medium on how to fly well, then the future outlook is not very positive.
Is Nirak for real? That is possibly the worst advice for flare technique I've ever heard. I've flown from 2 seater small up to 450 seater big from the left seat and that flare technique described by Nirak is trouble waiting to happen...
Read the POH and do that. Final Approach 1.3 Vs (in trim) power to idle as you round out and use those big muscles to flare. Always a greaser? Nope but should be ALWAYS in the right spot.
I have to agree with the posters recommending trimming up just prior to the flare. I flew about 600hrs on C210 and I found a few handfuls of elevator trim just prior to the flare would just about guarantee a smooth landing, sometimes even managing to hold the nose off (which I found rare on the C210). In fact I used that technique successfully throughout my career on aircraft that are considered tricky to put down smoothly such as F27's and B738's. Boeing does say not to trim in the flare for risk of striking the tail.
I have witnessed many bad landings with pilots fighting the nose down pitch when the power comes off, more pronounced on aircraft with under-slung motors of course. I found it wasn't nessasary on 747 classics and certainly not a technique used on A340's.
I wouldn't categorically say you don't land any aircraft with power on.
Flying a 207 sometimes you would land with full power and back it off as the wheels touched.
In a metro it would be irresponsible to not have some torque applied when the wheels touched down. Usually in the order of 10-15%. If you didn't you would find out about it pretty quick when the props disked up and she fell out of the sky, dislocating your back with the subsequent arrival.
It all depends on the type of wing your machine employs and it's designed wing loading.
A 210 has a beautiful high aspect ratio laminar aerofoil. It wants to fly even when it's standing still. Due to this it typically won't require any power and a cool head would smoothly reduce power before instigating the flare with eyes at the far end of the runway.
However there are times that power may be required. Thermal turbulence, Windshear, aft C of G, hanging off the back of the drag curve etc etc.
All of this comes down to flying the aeroplane in a manner appropriate to the conditions, the weight and the nature of the landing surface.
This is called experience and something you will gain with time.
For now, nail the speed until crossing the threshold, eyes on the end of the runway and use your peripheral vision to judge sink rate, your forward vision to maintain centerline correcting drift with your feet, and raise the nose slowly to place it on the end of the runway.
Enjoy. She is a fun ship to fly and one of the finer singles for a budding commercial pilot to get hold of.
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 15th Jul 2012 at 09:38.
To those folks who insist that down the runway is the only place to look:
"Then I look out to the side as the runway appears below, look out to the side and judge the height, gage the height of the tall wheels above the grass, and with a shudder the stall and the airplane is down and rolling"
Thanks for all the constructive comments regarding the landings! I am up in the air tomorrow so will definitely focus on some of the helpful hints given here as well as those from my CP and supervisors. Really appreciate all those pilots with many more hrs passing on their wealth of knowledge to the newbies in GA like myself. I'm pretty sure there will be many more people reading this thread and taking some of its advice. Thanks again.
I disagree to a point. Looking down the runway is a great start point to begining the flare. Once into the flare I prefer to use my peripheral for judgement
But thats just me and the way I was taught. It also happens to work for me, and I'd hazard, countless others.
Yep, words from the master here. Only 3000+ hours teaching people how to land aircraft properly and all this time the reason they're landing smoothly and not porpoising down the runway was bullshit!
Makeithappens post following mine, made really go back over the thread, and think back to advice given to me over the years.
I have a lil 210 time, less than you. I didn't find it an overly difficult aeroplane to land. I took the advice given to me by a qualified test pilot, and that was learn the numbers and do everything as you would normally do. It's an aeroplane, and if you get the numbers right then it will do what the manufacturer says it will. Magically my landings improved.
Happens post pointed me back to what I alluded to in my post. The 210 is no mystery ship. You know how to land an aeroplane, otherwise you wouldn't have a CPL. Go back to your basics...the stuff that you know that works, and go from there.
Failing that, the guy that is giving you ICUS, pound him for input about what is going wrong for you. Given he hasn't said too much, its either bugger all, or he wants you to work it out, or be man enough to ask...
ICUS is a funny thing. Many pilots see it as a chore...the smart ones use it to pick the brains of the guy watching. If he has nothing to offer, then ask for a new ICUS commander so you do learn something.
Where is 210 Terry, godfather of all 210 pilots when we need him? He'll know the answer to the enigma that is the perfect touchdown in the salubrious Centurion.
