Cessna 100 and 200 SIDS
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CAAP 42B-1(1)
CASA Maintenance Schedule
6. Periodic Inspection Schedule
6.1 The replacement or overhaul of time-lifed components required in an Airworthiness Limitations Section of the aeroplane’s maintenance manual and any special techniques required by the manufacturer or an Airworthiness Directive are required to be complied with. If it is clear from the terms of the manufacturer’s requirement that the manufacturer considers compliance is optional, then that requirement is optional
CASA Maintenance Schedule
6. Periodic Inspection Schedule
6.1 The replacement or overhaul of time-lifed components required in an Airworthiness Limitations Section of the aeroplane’s maintenance manual and any special techniques required by the manufacturer or an Airworthiness Directive are required to be complied with. If it is clear from the terms of the manufacturer’s requirement that the manufacturer considers compliance is optional, then that requirement is optional
GA has been in decline in aust at the change of government in the mid eighty's. When I started aircraft weren't able to get into the circuit area as it was to busy. Casa don't wont GA its too hard for them to regulate. the prefer the big org because its all kept in house.
From the 80s onward the cost of procuring new aircraft and parts advanced faster than the industry could keep up with. The new aircraft not doing anything particularly better than the old with respect to costs. The prospective users finding other more satisfying things to do with their cash.
New GA types are now hamstrung by costs so not many new types are hitting the market en mass, except expensive tourers. The only trainers being delivered being for large training providers with lots of cash. It is hard to say if these schools will pass them on at reasonable hours to fill the second tier market or just hang on to them until they are 30 years old and worn out.
If it was the Australian government that caused the rot then they must have spread it all over the world.
yr right,
Are you actually a LAME. Just wondering, based in the literary style. If you are a LAME, some of your log book entries mus take considerable interpretation/translation.
Aussie Bob,
My experience exactly.
Tootle pip!!
Are you actually a LAME. Just wondering, based in the literary style. If you are a LAME, some of your log book entries mus take considerable interpretation/translation.
and the 172 in particular has been an eye opener, it has gone from a neat looking flyable aeroplane to a pile of aluminum where the corrosion never stops.
My experience exactly.
Tootle pip!!
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yes born into the industry 34 years full time in the industry 25 years as an LAME. Work in 4 country's and every state of Aust with exception with Tassy which I've only visited. Sorry didn't realise that writing qualities are part of it. Ohhh and my log book entry's are just fine but thanks for asking. lol
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Keep it civil
From the ATSB.
Some registration holders of class B aircraft, however, believed that their aircraft were exempt from the manufacturer’s supplemental inspections as long as the aircraft were maintained using the CASA maintenance schedule. This belief sprang from a misinterpretation of the Australian Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 (CAR). The CASA maintenance schedule did not make any specific reference to the incorporation of the manufacturer’s supplemental inspections, but it was a CAR requirement that all aircraft be maintained in accordance with approved maintenance data that, by definition, included those inspections.
CASA are telling you SIDS is mandatory.
ATSB are telling you SIDS is mandatory.
The Cessna SIDS document stated "Mandatory"
You have to maintain the Aircraft I.a.w. the Maintenance Manual, yes?
Do you really want to have to stand up and justify why you believe it was not required, when now more than ever, there is so much text directing you to comply.
Thought I'd have a quick look at some numbers,
Why is GA in decline? Obviously a number of reasons... But this might be a couple..
Average wage in Australia in 1980 was $13,348.
A Friend bought his aircraft in 1980 for $15,000, a 15 year old 182H.
Roughly 1 years wage's.
Average wage in Australia in 2014 is $ $57,930
A 15 year old 182 in 2014 is conservatively $169,000. (Let me know if about right!)
Roughly 3 years wage's.
Average Wages in Australia
Now let look at the rising cost of Avgas which has been rising steadily since around 2000, yes it's in USA, easiest one to find..
Aviation Gasoline Average Price, All Sectors, Iowa (EIA) - Data and Charts from Quandl
We got our 210 in the 70's, the old man was in his 30's
We have family friends who have owned aircraft since they were in their 20's,
Not sure of anyone I have met in the last few years who owns an aircraft under
The age of 40.
And i believe the average age of LAME's in Aus is 58.
Ageing industry all round..
Some registration holders of class B aircraft, however, believed that their aircraft were exempt from the manufacturer’s supplemental inspections as long as the aircraft were maintained using the CASA maintenance schedule. This belief sprang from a misinterpretation of the Australian Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 (CAR). The CASA maintenance schedule did not make any specific reference to the incorporation of the manufacturer’s supplemental inspections, but it was a CAR requirement that all aircraft be maintained in accordance with approved maintenance data that, by definition, included those inspections.
CASA are telling you SIDS is mandatory.
ATSB are telling you SIDS is mandatory.
The Cessna SIDS document stated "Mandatory"
You have to maintain the Aircraft I.a.w. the Maintenance Manual, yes?
Do you really want to have to stand up and justify why you believe it was not required, when now more than ever, there is so much text directing you to comply.
Thought I'd have a quick look at some numbers,
Why is GA in decline? Obviously a number of reasons... But this might be a couple..
Average wage in Australia in 1980 was $13,348.
A Friend bought his aircraft in 1980 for $15,000, a 15 year old 182H.
Roughly 1 years wage's.
Average wage in Australia in 2014 is $ $57,930
A 15 year old 182 in 2014 is conservatively $169,000. (Let me know if about right!)
Roughly 3 years wage's.
Average Wages in Australia
Now let look at the rising cost of Avgas which has been rising steadily since around 2000, yes it's in USA, easiest one to find..
Aviation Gasoline Average Price, All Sectors, Iowa (EIA) - Data and Charts from Quandl
We got our 210 in the 70's, the old man was in his 30's
We have family friends who have owned aircraft since they were in their 20's,
Not sure of anyone I have met in the last few years who owns an aircraft under
The age of 40.
And i believe the average age of LAME's in Aus is 58.
Ageing industry all round..
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Unfortunately the ATSB cant set or uphold any regulations. They can only surgiest, confirm ,and investigate. And in court advise of their findings . Basically they have zero power.
An senior American Continental rep told me many years ago that the cost of insurance was so high that they could develop a compete aircraft engine series form a sheet of paper each year. Hence this cost is passed on to the end costumer
An senior American Continental rep told me many years ago that the cost of insurance was so high that they could develop a compete aircraft engine series form a sheet of paper each year. Hence this cost is passed on to the end costumer
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Quote,
"Why would i need to? Unless I have a mishap in an aircraft as a result of it not having SIDs done.... And that's not happening."
Really, (and no, I'm not being a smart aŁ€e, you just sound very nonchalant)
News: Confusion over regulations leaves ageing aircraft vulnerable
Took me a few seconds to find...
Quote,
"SIDs is not risk management. Well, not for us anyway." You as an owner, registered operator are more responsible than I think you perceive.
& Who is Us?
Are you referring to pilots in general, or owners, owner pilots,
Owner maintainers..
& What makes you think I don't fly, and don't own aircraft.
Lets say you are an owner,
CAAP 41-2 states,
1.1 A Certificate of Registration holder for class B aircraft is required, by regula- tion 41 of the CARs, to select a maintenance schedule from one of three op- tions.
Lets say your aircraft is maintained on the CASA schedule 5.
3.3 The certificate of registration holder of a private class B aircraft below 5700 kg may elect to have an annual inspec- tion using the CAA Maintenance Sched- ule. This inspection would be required to be completed every 12 months regard- less of hours flown.
Not really intended for your 2006 C182, but So far so good.
3.4 The procedures specified in the ap- proved maintenance data detailing how maintenance is to be performed must be complied with when using the CAA Maintenance Schedule.
So far, they have directed that if you use schedule 5, you must use the procedures specified in the approved maintenance Data.
The items listed in schedule 5 are those to be inspected,
The procedures are in the maintenance (data) manual.
Ok, so you give me the, 'open to interpretation' or worse...
CAAP 42B-1(1)
When electing to use Schedule 5,
6.7 Except where otherwise approved or directed by CASA the procedures and limits prepared by the aeroplane manufacturer are to be used when performing an inspection required by this schedule.
1. The holder of the certificate of registration for a class B aircraft must ensure that all maintenance required to be carried out on the aircraft (including any aircraft components from time to time included in or fitted to the aircraft) by the aircraft’s maintenance schedule is carried out when required by that schedule.
Seems pretty clear to me..
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...-operators.pdf
Good for a brouse if you have a few spare mins, who does these days!
"Why would i need to? Unless I have a mishap in an aircraft as a result of it not having SIDs done.... And that's not happening."
Really, (and no, I'm not being a smart aŁ€e, you just sound very nonchalant)
News: Confusion over regulations leaves ageing aircraft vulnerable
Took me a few seconds to find...
Quote,
"SIDs is not risk management. Well, not for us anyway." You as an owner, registered operator are more responsible than I think you perceive.
& Who is Us?
Are you referring to pilots in general, or owners, owner pilots,
Owner maintainers..
& What makes you think I don't fly, and don't own aircraft.
Lets say you are an owner,
CAAP 41-2 states,
1.1 A Certificate of Registration holder for class B aircraft is required, by regula- tion 41 of the CARs, to select a maintenance schedule from one of three op- tions.
Lets say your aircraft is maintained on the CASA schedule 5.
3.3 The certificate of registration holder of a private class B aircraft below 5700 kg may elect to have an annual inspec- tion using the CAA Maintenance Sched- ule. This inspection would be required to be completed every 12 months regard- less of hours flown.
Not really intended for your 2006 C182, but So far so good.
3.4 The procedures specified in the ap- proved maintenance data detailing how maintenance is to be performed must be complied with when using the CAA Maintenance Schedule.
So far, they have directed that if you use schedule 5, you must use the procedures specified in the approved maintenance Data.
The items listed in schedule 5 are those to be inspected,
The procedures are in the maintenance (data) manual.
Ok, so you give me the, 'open to interpretation' or worse...
CAAP 42B-1(1)
When electing to use Schedule 5,
6.7 Except where otherwise approved or directed by CASA the procedures and limits prepared by the aeroplane manufacturer are to be used when performing an inspection required by this schedule.
1. The holder of the certificate of registration for a class B aircraft must ensure that all maintenance required to be carried out on the aircraft (including any aircraft components from time to time included in or fitted to the aircraft) by the aircraft’s maintenance schedule is carried out when required by that schedule.
Seems pretty clear to me..
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...-operators.pdf
Good for a brouse if you have a few spare mins, who does these days!
Last edited by Perspective; 31st Mar 2014 at 09:57. Reason: add link
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Yr Right, seems you are the lone LAME posting here, and good on Yr.
As another LAME I support your viewPoint and interpretation of the Regulations.
Posters like Leadsled et al, will argue the opposite and denigrate your trademanship and I see now denigrating your communication skills.
THese posters are well versed in Ad Hominem argument to try to undermine your very valid points.
Fvk em mate they are only eggs.
As another LAME I support your viewPoint and interpretation of the Regulations.
Posters like Leadsled et al, will argue the opposite and denigrate your trademanship and I see now denigrating your communication skills.
THese posters are well versed in Ad Hominem argument to try to undermine your very valid points.
Fvk em mate they are only eggs.
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What's strange is I deal with professional pilots on a daily bases. I work in remote area where the aircraft are also in remote locations. I get a call I make decision on what is told to me and a joint decision to bring her back or I go to the machine. Never had a problem. I will not give a pilot an aeroplane I wont fly in myself, end of story. I think it U/S it is U/S. You don't wont to think it is ,fine no problem. I put it together push it out side end of problem. Take it some where else. Never ever ever had a problem with a professional pilot. Owner's of small GA aircraft all the time. As an owner you are liable as much as the LAME. Have an accident and it is investigated, ASTB start at the front end at the back and everything in between. I've had one fatal in my career compete pilot error, Never had a wheels up, in flight shut down or engine failure period. Why cause I know my sh@@.
The Fatal I had I never got a call from police atsb casa coroner, not one.
As for some before saying LAMEs don't know about sids, BULL****, you own one aeroplane wow you think you know all about it. Think about it before you make that statement. How many 150 type aircraft are there 152. 170,172,180,185.206.207.210.300.303.310,400,401,402,404 get it now each serial number may not between each SB plus now think about you may have all the piper, beech may be an aero commander, or a metro or pitts. maybe an airtactor as well. So how the fU^& can you know every sids at a drop of a hand. Answer you cant. Every cesnna sids package is different and takes time to do.
The Fatal I had I never got a call from police atsb casa coroner, not one.
As for some before saying LAMEs don't know about sids, BULL****, you own one aeroplane wow you think you know all about it. Think about it before you make that statement. How many 150 type aircraft are there 152. 170,172,180,185.206.207.210.300.303.310,400,401,402,404 get it now each serial number may not between each SB plus now think about you may have all the piper, beech may be an aero commander, or a metro or pitts. maybe an airtactor as well. So how the fU^& can you know every sids at a drop of a hand. Answer you cant. Every cesnna sids package is different and takes time to do.
Last edited by yr right; 31st Mar 2014 at 13:55. Reason: wrong word
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Cheers No Hopper
Yep a lot of super hero's on here, funny they don't give out there qualifications. Yeh well English not my strongest trait but I don't care, by the way I am Australian.
I got a call yesterday from a friend looking for a LAME another two of his staff leaving and going to the mines, funny mines like LAME because we are focused on our job.
What these owners need to do is look at the regulation's and actually see what they mean to themselves and see how liable they are. Then if there is an accident what happens to their insurance pay out.
What seams to be lost is that Aviation works on PREVENIVE MAINTENANCE that means we fix before it breaks, simple term hard to enforce or carry out in GA in private cat when owners have no $$$$$$$ what they forget is they in the seat and generally family and friends in the seats be side them.
Yep a lot of super hero's on here, funny they don't give out there qualifications. Yeh well English not my strongest trait but I don't care, by the way I am Australian.
I got a call yesterday from a friend looking for a LAME another two of his staff leaving and going to the mines, funny mines like LAME because we are focused on our job.
What these owners need to do is look at the regulation's and actually see what they mean to themselves and see how liable they are. Then if there is an accident what happens to their insurance pay out.
What seams to be lost is that Aviation works on PREVENIVE MAINTENANCE that means we fix before it breaks, simple term hard to enforce or carry out in GA in private cat when owners have no $$$$$$$ what they forget is they in the seat and generally family and friends in the seats be side them.
Yep a lot of super hero's on here, funny they don't give out there qualifications.
I am not a LAME, but I am one of a very few pilots who can be instantly put to work in an engineering workshop. Most either can't or have no interest in trying. Really, I don't think many are super heros!
Folks,
At today's SCC meeting CASA announced a timetable for the completion of SIDs for all 100/200/300/400 Cessna, regardless of the category of operation.
The timetable will be published in the very near future.
Tootle Pip!!
At today's SCC meeting CASA announced a timetable for the completion of SIDs for all 100/200/300/400 Cessna, regardless of the category of operation.
The timetable will be published in the very near future.
Tootle Pip!!
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What mechanism
CASA are telling you, however you interpret the Regs,
that SIDS is part of Maintenance, per the CAR's.
I would imagine a letter to owners, maintainers, explaining
To that effect would be adequate.
Eg, maybe referring to CAO 100.5, 9 (9.1)
For CAR 1988, sub reg 38 (1) maintenance directions.
This would be the instrument to point people toward, that already
Exists in reference to CASA directions in regards to Maint.
that SIDS is part of Maintenance, per the CAR's.
I would imagine a letter to owners, maintainers, explaining
To that effect would be adequate.
Eg, maybe referring to CAO 100.5, 9 (9.1)
For CAR 1988, sub reg 38 (1) maintenance directions.
This would be the instrument to point people toward, that already
Exists in reference to CASA directions in regards to Maint.
Last edited by Perspective; 3rd Apr 2014 at 10:23. Reason: Add paragraph
Thread Starter
NZCAA issued an instruction on the incorporation of the Cessna SID inspection once Cessna actually published the changes to the AMM.
CAA deleted part 43 (the equivalent of schedule Aussie schedule 5) about 8 years ago as they said the the type certificate holder is more knowledgeable of an individual model than CAA, and any NZ specific issues can be dealt with by AD.
The best comment that CAA made in the instruction was:
CAA deleted part 43 (the equivalent of schedule Aussie schedule 5) about 8 years ago as they said the the type certificate holder is more knowledgeable of an individual model than CAA, and any NZ specific issues can be dealt with by AD.
The best comment that CAA made in the instruction was:
Note
It is CAA’s expectation the initial SID inspection of each aircraft is considered a workshop project with an associated management plan, not a larger than normal routine inspection.
It is CAA’s expectation the initial SID inspection of each aircraft is considered a workshop project with an associated management plan, not a larger than normal routine inspection.
CAA deleted part 43 (the equivalent of schedule Aussie schedule 5) about 8 years ago as they said the the type certificate holder is more knowledgeable of an individual model than CAA, and any NZ specific issues can be dealt with by AD.
This is about the one area ( as a result of a pro - JAA/EASA bias in maintenance regulation) that the Kiwis got wrong, but it's too late (early) and I will explain at another time.
Tootle pip!!
Clue: Have a look at FAR 43 Appendix D.
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CASA have released AWB 02-048 basically outlining their understanding that the SIDs are mandatory part of the ICA.
No surprise you have to do them as per the current regulations or justify an equivalent.
So the AWB confirms they are mandatory yet the exemption extending the compliance date commences on the 14th April, technically what happens between now and the 14th for those models already outside of the Cessna published due dates?
So the AWB confirms they are mandatory yet the exemption extending the compliance date commences on the 14th April, technically what happens between now and the 14th for those models already outside of the Cessna published due dates?
Last edited by edsbar; 7th Apr 2014 at 08:16.