casa and the Coroners Courts
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LS - I am a bit on CASA's side one this one, they would need a cast of thousands to respond to every ratbag complaint from Joe Public, particularly when Joe is a well known local axe grinder.
The CASA manager (Team leader ? uncertain) at the time competently, impartially, quickly and perhaps more to point, accurately dealt with every single one; even when he was certain they were a beat up. Quality service from a first class FOI. And, no it's not ancient history. Just the regulator performing design function, coolly, accurately, calmly and fairly.
This episode only serves to emphasise just how poorly the resources are now deployed. Bet a dollar there was a local FOI who could, without the current micro management, sorted this fool out in about 5 minutes, tea and biccy's included. Nope, no problems with one.
Steam off – beer o'clock.
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A wise man once told me of an experience he had of a past CASA very senior functionary which went along the lines of;
Aviation in the US is too large to micro-manage, so they don't.
Aviation in Australia is so small it can be micro-managed, so we do;
Why!
because we can.
I'm glad we brought Murphy's Law into this, because it emphasises the above point;
If it can happen, it will.
Aviation in the US is too large to micro-manage, so they don't.
Aviation in Australia is so small it can be micro-managed, so we do;
Why!
because we can.
I'm glad we brought Murphy's Law into this, because it emphasises the above point;
If it can happen, it will.
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Frank, your friend may be a very wise man but on this matter I think he is wrong. There is a fundamental difference between the two countries which is reflected by their comparative legislation and approach to legislation.
Australia has always been a fundamentally regulated country with legislation prescribed for various situations, whereas, in the US legislation has lagged well behind the fact. For example, look at the banking industry if you are sick and tired of comparing aviation legislation. I really think the image of the bronzed independent larrikin Ozzie is a myth - we like to be told what to do and need the guidance. Try that in the US and see what you get.
Australia has always been a fundamentally regulated country with legislation prescribed for various situations, whereas, in the US legislation has lagged well behind the fact. For example, look at the banking industry if you are sick and tired of comparing aviation legislation. I really think the image of the bronzed independent larrikin Ozzie is a myth - we like to be told what to do and need the guidance. Try that in the US and see what you get.
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probably got a lot to do with our convict heritage.
Didn't the Yanks beat the Pommies in a war of some sort?
Didn't the Yanks beat the Pommies in a war of some sort?
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Taxpayers take cover
I heard a rumour today that the current Reg Implementation Manager wants around $45 million additional neddies from the taxpayer to complete the '23 year $200 million' incompetent project! He was told NO.
So the current EM Operations (ex Air Services from some time ago and the only half switched on or even capable exec in the VH-CASA fleet) will be taking over the RIM job. (sounds appropriate!) Question is, will an external candidate take on the soon to be vacated EM Ops role, or will one of the current internal dinosaurs take it on, creating a bigger poo pile?
I'm guessing they would appoint an ass kissing government tainted bureaucrat into the role rather than find fresh blood, unpolluted by spin and wankery and aged under 60, but who knows?
Perhaps Flyingfiend will be instrumental in this bold internal reshuffle and will himself receive a highly sort after 'CASA Internal Knighthood' and join the ranks of the very well remunerated executive management club?
Or maybe the CASA board, itself a labyrinth of veteran bureaucratic trough dwellers and lawyers will seek out a former member of CASA's history pages - Quinn, Vaughan, Murray, Collins, Harbor, Whyte, Adams, or even a Smith, AyaToller or Byron!
So the current EM Operations (ex Air Services from some time ago and the only half switched on or even capable exec in the VH-CASA fleet) will be taking over the RIM job. (sounds appropriate!) Question is, will an external candidate take on the soon to be vacated EM Ops role, or will one of the current internal dinosaurs take it on, creating a bigger poo pile?
I'm guessing they would appoint an ass kissing government tainted bureaucrat into the role rather than find fresh blood, unpolluted by spin and wankery and aged under 60, but who knows?
Perhaps Flyingfiend will be instrumental in this bold internal reshuffle and will himself receive a highly sort after 'CASA Internal Knighthood' and join the ranks of the very well remunerated executive management club?
Or maybe the CASA board, itself a labyrinth of veteran bureaucratic trough dwellers and lawyers will seek out a former member of CASA's history pages - Quinn, Vaughan, Murray, Collins, Harbor, Whyte, Adams, or even a Smith, AyaToller or Byron!
Quinn, Vaughan, Murray, Collins, Harbor,-----
All for very different reason, it will not be any of the above.
Of that lot, in my opinion, Greg Vaughan was the only one worth feeding, which probably explains why he didn't consider renewing his contract.
Tootle pip!!
A wise man once told me of an experience he had of a past CASA very senior functionary which went along the lines of; ----
Actually, it was Kim Beazley, who had been a Minister for Aviation, and had a very frustrating time headbutting his bureaucrats ----- and he is right, Australian aviation has never recovered from the effects of the Labor governments after WWII, government that were fundamentally opposed to any significant aviation being in private hands.
Unless you were around at the time, it is very hard to appreciate just how deep bureaucratic fingers delved into aviation.
In the airline field ( and not juts the Two Airline policy) DCA dictated what, where and how you flew, how many seats the aeroplane would have, and what you could charge for the seat.
Some of the grovelling correspondence from East-West Airlines to DCA, when they wanted to move up from Ansons to Hudsons makes sad reading.
The bureaucrats were officially/legislatively designated the fount of all aviation knowledge and wisdom, and that is the histeric (sic) (and historic) basis of the overweening "CASA Culture".
Tootle pip!!
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Vaughan is not as innocent or amicable as one might think. However he was on 'The Drunks' hitlist and an interesting game of power play unfolded in a game where Vaughan lost, returned to Canberra and eventually pulled the pin.
Tsk tsk I bet Albo's 'advisers' are now wishing they they could reverse the decision to overlook Carmody and hiring the Skull?
Tsk tsk I bet Albo's 'advisers' are now wishing they they could reverse the decision to overlook Carmody and hiring the Skull?
Vaughan is not as innocent or amicable as one might think -----
The only thing Vaughan was guilty of was getting on with the job.
Something the jobsworths really don't like, and reacted strongly against.
Likewise the same suspects reacted strongly against the directions Byron was taking, his policies were upsetting too many rice-bowls and happy little sinecures.
The experiences of Byron and Vaughan in their last year in their jobs showed just how the jobsworths in Canberra can stymie any real change.
Tootle pip!!
--employed trained professional Investigators.---
In all too many cases the "trained investigators" were defrocked state police, relieved of their state police jobs as the results of everything from Internal Affairs/PIC type inquiries, to Royal Commissions.
Apparently such "credits" on a CV were not impediments to employment with CASA or its predecessors. Indeed, the main qualification seemed to be a belief that "Guilty until proven innocent" was the preferred legal doctrine.
After all, a previous head of whatever the legal branch was called at the time stated (before plenty of witnesses --- meeting the criminal standard of proof --- beyond a reasonable doubt) that: "Pilots and engineers are just criminals who haven't been caught yet".
Sadly, the aviation law in Australia, does, and has done for many many years, create "Inadvertent criminals".**
It is a very old problem in Australian aviation.
Tootle pip!!
** Page 59, Air Safety Regulation Review, first report, The Legal Framework of Air Safety Regulation, 05 December 1988.
Last edited by LeadSled; 11th Mar 2012 at 04:23.
same old..STILL !!
Heres a little story about the quality of a CASA "investigator"... not actually yet legally appointed as one until after his "investigation"
I'll quote what the LAME said about him..."new to CASA, ex-pig, didnt know jack-sh*t about aviation, what pilot maintenance sched 8 was, what an MR was, or an AD, or what a particular aircraft looked like."
When the LAME stated that there was no case to answer, because no MR his response was "I dont know about that ( and he obviously didnt), but there are people in Canberra who think they can make this stick."
The "investigator's" statement of (his) facts for the court are a litany of falsehoods, but when one is tasked to get the required result ...so what?
Two other proper investigations found 3 folk in my favour.. this mother found /mentions none... because he wasnt looking.!
At least the citizens of NSW gained a benefit when this verballing SOB joined CASA... to aviation's detriment. Their gain, our loss.
I see he gets a mention in NSW Hansard re an investigation into NSW Police.
So you can see that CASA's "Mission Statement" and "Code of Conduct" are just bureaucratic tripe, not worth the paper they're written on.
And Leady is absolutely correct....I was guilty ...and penalised, until I could prove myself innocent. But only when the Prosecution brief turned updid I know the deatils of the allegations (false) made against me.
CASA has it all together OK, Justar$e for sure
And the SS is happy to preside over this lot and protect them as well.
Holy sh*it!!!!!
I'll quote what the LAME said about him..."new to CASA, ex-pig, didnt know jack-sh*t about aviation, what pilot maintenance sched 8 was, what an MR was, or an AD, or what a particular aircraft looked like."
When the LAME stated that there was no case to answer, because no MR his response was "I dont know about that ( and he obviously didnt), but there are people in Canberra who think they can make this stick."
The "investigator's" statement of (his) facts for the court are a litany of falsehoods, but when one is tasked to get the required result ...so what?
Two other proper investigations found 3 folk in my favour.. this mother found /mentions none... because he wasnt looking.!
At least the citizens of NSW gained a benefit when this verballing SOB joined CASA... to aviation's detriment. Their gain, our loss.
I see he gets a mention in NSW Hansard re an investigation into NSW Police.
So you can see that CASA's "Mission Statement" and "Code of Conduct" are just bureaucratic tripe, not worth the paper they're written on.
And Leady is absolutely correct....I was guilty ...and penalised, until I could prove myself innocent. But only when the Prosecution brief turned updid I know the deatils of the allegations (false) made against me.
CASA has it all together OK, Justar$e for sure
And the SS is happy to preside over this lot and protect them as well.
Holy sh*it!!!!!
aroa,
Even back in "The Golden Era Of Australian Aviation Safety" under Sir Donald Anderson --- that description was from a well known "and loved" journalist --- who didn't seem to know about any of the airline crashes of the era ------??
The DCA investigators were known as the AIRSTAPO ---
Interestingly one of their main interests in those day were minor ( and I mean minor, they wouldn't know a major error if it hit them between the eyes) errors by pilots or ATC staff.
Many hours used to be consumed listening to tapes, hoping to find minor lapses in "radio procedures" by pilots or ATC. I still have my very first Form 225 (incident report for you young blokes and blokesses) and the major crime I committed --- at the end of a night flying session, and only very new to the intricacies and manifest difficulties of committing aviation in Australia, and being the only aircraft on the aerodrome ASBK, clearing 29, I said "g'night, thanks, finished for the day"'.
Quelle Horreur --- just imagine the threat to life, the potential bodies raining from the sky!!!
And the hours and days of bureaucratic paper-shuffling before the slap across the wrist arrived registered mail (no Friday night fax in those days) about seven months after the alleged crime. As I found out afterwards, nobody ever asked an Examiner of Airmen (FOI) whether it was important --- a crime is a crime, and must be dealt with !!
Just gotta keep all those files tidy, just gotta keep up the enforcement action statistics.
Tootle pip!!
Even back in "The Golden Era Of Australian Aviation Safety" under Sir Donald Anderson --- that description was from a well known "and loved" journalist --- who didn't seem to know about any of the airline crashes of the era ------??
The DCA investigators were known as the AIRSTAPO ---
Interestingly one of their main interests in those day were minor ( and I mean minor, they wouldn't know a major error if it hit them between the eyes) errors by pilots or ATC staff.
Many hours used to be consumed listening to tapes, hoping to find minor lapses in "radio procedures" by pilots or ATC. I still have my very first Form 225 (incident report for you young blokes and blokesses) and the major crime I committed --- at the end of a night flying session, and only very new to the intricacies and manifest difficulties of committing aviation in Australia, and being the only aircraft on the aerodrome ASBK, clearing 29, I said "g'night, thanks, finished for the day"'.
Quelle Horreur --- just imagine the threat to life, the potential bodies raining from the sky!!!
And the hours and days of bureaucratic paper-shuffling before the slap across the wrist arrived registered mail (no Friday night fax in those days) about seven months after the alleged crime. As I found out afterwards, nobody ever asked an Examiner of Airmen (FOI) whether it was important --- a crime is a crime, and must be dealt with !!
Just gotta keep all those files tidy, just gotta keep up the enforcement action statistics.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 11th Mar 2012 at 08:24.
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When the LAME stated that there was no case to answer, because no MR
Cops and robbers....
justappl... no idea how this "investigator" (not!) came to leave the NSW plods. To CASA, less work, more $$s, and no accountability or oversight.
bh....is that so.? Then there are many workshops, vintage and warbird rebuilders and ppls that have a problem then... along with CASA, who have never apprised the industry otherwise.
If you have no MR ..is your CoA valid? No MR the a/c is not a legally flyable entity.
And the LAME made that statement because he had in the past a "conversation" with an AWI about that very issue.... and won.!
Not more inconsistency for Christs sake!?
And anyway....who said I was doing "maintenance"...that was something made up by CASA persons.
bh....is that so.? Then there are many workshops, vintage and warbird rebuilders and ppls that have a problem then... along with CASA, who have never apprised the industry otherwise.
If you have no MR ..is your CoA valid? No MR the a/c is not a legally flyable entity.
And the LAME made that statement because he had in the past a "conversation" with an AWI about that very issue.... and won.!
Not more inconsistency for Christs sake!?
And anyway....who said I was doing "maintenance"...that was something made up by CASA persons.
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No MR the a/c is not a legally flyable entity.
As a maintainer, the issue to me is that once it is repaired it is going to fly. If a non authorised/licenced person has worked on it unsupervised, I am obliged to redo that work.
It is a huge can of worms to get involved with.
I would probably not release it to service.
As far as your statement about owner maintenance, anecdotal evidence from your "peers" at Mareeba suggest that you were not adverse to putting spanner to Wilga.
"Pilots and engineers are just criminals who haven't been caught yet".
Perhaps you need to adjust your Sarcasm Meter, the same thing has been said in my presence, tongue firmly in cheek.
Cheers
BH
Last edited by blackhand; 14th Mar 2012 at 10:18.
Peers...and...
With all that "inside" anecdotal (sic) evidence from the "peers".... all true? of course
And all those "peers" are as pure as the driven snow...????
Show me an AME or an LAME or a CASA AWI who reckons they have NEVER slipped a breach however minor, deliberately or inadvertantly, some place in their history, and I'll show you a ?????..insert any word you would chose to use.
Why not use your contacts and let us know here why R Clark TVL SAWI, bolted, or got the push after the Wilga episode. Que?
One down, one 'retired'..one to go.
Here's an example how it works. I am asked to go for a few circuits with a guy in his Jabiru, which I do. All I do is sit in the RH seat, never touch the controls, but pass a couple of comments about his landing technique as I see it, because he has a problem, which he admits.
Next week I'm accused by xxxxxx,a local fwit that I have been seen to be doing illegal instructing.!!!
Really? What it means if you weren't there and dont know...YOU DONT KNOW.
But of course ...there goes the story.
How about this one. Last week the local workshop of xxxxxx sent their unqualified hangar helper off in an illegal charter to go fix a helicopter out bush. Said "helper" trying to lie down out of sight during taxi..!
Told to me by 2 seperate persons... anecdotal of course.
Wont be any repercusssions there, unless they score another... but even then, maybe not.
Different strokes for different folks. Inconsistency Rules OK
And all those "peers" are as pure as the driven snow...????
Show me an AME or an LAME or a CASA AWI who reckons they have NEVER slipped a breach however minor, deliberately or inadvertantly, some place in their history, and I'll show you a ?????..insert any word you would chose to use.
Why not use your contacts and let us know here why R Clark TVL SAWI, bolted, or got the push after the Wilga episode. Que?
One down, one 'retired'..one to go.Here's an example how it works. I am asked to go for a few circuits with a guy in his Jabiru, which I do. All I do is sit in the RH seat, never touch the controls, but pass a couple of comments about his landing technique as I see it, because he has a problem, which he admits.
Next week I'm accused by xxxxxx,a local fwit that I have been seen to be doing illegal instructing.!!!
Really? What it means if you weren't there and dont know...YOU DONT KNOW.
But of course ...there goes the story.
How about this one. Last week the local workshop of xxxxxx sent their unqualified hangar helper off in an illegal charter to go fix a helicopter out bush. Said "helper" trying to lie down out of sight during taxi..!
Told to me by 2 seperate persons... anecdotal of course.
Wont be any repercusssions there, unless they score another
... but even then, maybe not.Different strokes for different folks. Inconsistency Rules OK
Blackhand, are you going to tell me that if I walk into a hangar and a friendly LAME inside asks me to help him fit a propeller, and I do, then one, or both of us, has committed an offence?
Isn't there a concept of being "under instruction" or "under supervision"?
If there isn't, then the jails are going to be full to overflowing.
Isn't there a concept of being "under instruction" or "under supervision"?
If there isn't, then the jails are going to be full to overflowing.
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SUNFISH, that is working under supervision, and your scenario fulfils that definition.
Is a different matter if an unlicenced person fits the propellor without direct supervision.
In fact I have been "pinged" for something similar, wasn't in the vicinity of the work being done.
A more complex issue is sheet metal work
In large MROs the sheeties complete the job, sometimes in stages, and is then inspected and certified by LAME. In a small organisation CASA say that the LAME has to be there on the job all the time the sheetie is working.
Am still arguing that one with them.
Is a different matter if an unlicenced person fits the propellor without direct supervision.
In fact I have been "pinged" for something similar, wasn't in the vicinity of the work being done.
A more complex issue is sheet metal work
In large MROs the sheeties complete the job, sometimes in stages, and is then inspected and certified by LAME. In a small organisation CASA say that the LAME has to be there on the job all the time the sheetie is working.
Am still arguing that one with them.
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Aviation welders are reluctant to allow anyone to look over their shoulder at work. Some, perhaps deserved, have had same, put a shotgun to the head if you cross them.
But that's only anectdotal from my peers.
Oh! and only some people use the term "pinged".
But that's only anectdotal from my peers.
Oh! and only some people use the term "pinged".
