CASA investigates
----In the US if the area is remote there is no lower limit to the altitude allowed-----
Just one of many areas where the Yanks don't see the need to regulate aviation to a standstill --- but leave it up to common sense and personal responsibility --- and recognize that you can't regulate the unwise, and/or terminally immature and/or irresponsible out of existence.
Many regulatory areas of what we call "airwork" simply do not exist in the US, another example being aerial photography ---- no AOC equivalents, with all the inevitable bureaucratic red tape. Just what air safety threat does our forest of aerial photo rules address --- beyond the "if it moves - regulate it" syndrome.
And, the air safety outcome of the "lax" US regulation ---- a far better (lower) accident rate than Australia, comparing apples and apples.
The FAA/AOPA-US/EAA/NBAA/etc. approach to educating to produce the world's best air safety outcomes obviously works ---- compared with the Australian approach of regulating almost everything ( and not just aviation, either) to within an inch of its life.
There is a message here, which we consistently fail to get!!
Don't just blame CASA --- industry is not short of fans of the thoroughly discredited idea that "more regulation = more safety" --- as long as the "more regulation" is imposed on "them", not me, because I am a really dutifully compliant operator, and therefor "safe" ---- it's "them" that need all the extra regulation to be "safe".
As former FAA Administrator, (Vice-Admiral) Donald Engen said, on a visit to Australia: "In US, we trust a person because they are a pilot, in Australia you distrust a person because they are a pilot".
Just about says it all about the about the Australian (not just CASA) approach to aviation regulation.
Tootle pip!!
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Just about says it all about the about the Australian (not just CASA) approach to aviation regulation.
Blackhand,
All part of our good old British heritage --- All rights are reserved to the Crown, all that is not expressly permitted is prohibited, is probably closer to the origin.
Really, the "cultural" differences that we should have long since outgrown, but in may ways haven't , have got a lot answer for.
I have often wondered how much Australia has suffered, by not having had a revolution against the Crown, we simply have no conception of the concept of freedom, as embraced in the US Declaration of Independence and the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
All our laws stem from the same basic origin, Blackstone's Commentaries, but how differently they have developed in various Common Law countries, and how what freedoms we may have are increasingly circumscribed by an avalanche of statutory law.
In short, freedom as the yanks understand it, is too dangerous a concept to be allowed Australians.
Tootle pip!!
All part of our good old British heritage --- All rights are reserved to the Crown, all that is not expressly permitted is prohibited, is probably closer to the origin.
Really, the "cultural" differences that we should have long since outgrown, but in may ways haven't , have got a lot answer for.
I have often wondered how much Australia has suffered, by not having had a revolution against the Crown, we simply have no conception of the concept of freedom, as embraced in the US Declaration of Independence and the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
All our laws stem from the same basic origin, Blackstone's Commentaries, but how differently they have developed in various Common Law countries, and how what freedoms we may have are increasingly circumscribed by an avalanche of statutory law.
In short, freedom as the yanks understand it, is too dangerous a concept to be allowed Australians.
Tootle pip!!
we simply have no conception of the concept of freedom, as embraced in the US Declaration of Independence and the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
No hard evidence need be produced as the threat is in the eye of the beholder.
Lovely.
Mickjoebill
mickjoebill,
The US Constitution didn't enable such state based statutory law, and there is nothing in the Australian Constitution that would prevent such statutory law being enacted by a state in Australia.
So, what's your point --- apart from airing your prejudices.
Tootle pip!!
The US Constitution didn't enable such state based statutory law, and there is nothing in the Australian Constitution that would prevent such statutory law being enacted by a state in Australia.
So, what's your point --- apart from airing your prejudices.
Tootle pip!!
The FAA statement...
As writ by Leadie...
Another great example that pilots are an untrustworthy lot is the ASIC card.
US had 911 and asked that all pilots etc on airields around the country keep an eye out for any unusual activity.
What did we get ffs.!!
A drone empire to do "security checks" and give/sorry, sell, you a red card so you can enter SSA ( gotta have that acronym).
And having got that card, go and blow up an aeroplane tomorrow if you really feel pissed off about something.! Like tarmac idiots nitpicking because yr cards upside down. Jeezus wept, what a colony!
And as for the freedom to "chase someone down"...well thats been getting a bit of news time lately right here in Oz.
Pinch a packet of biscuits and nick off....Zappo! Finito
Another great example that pilots are an untrustworthy lot is the ASIC card.
US had 911 and asked that all pilots etc on airields around the country keep an eye out for any unusual activity.
What did we get ffs.!!
A drone empire to do "security checks" and give/sorry, sell, you a red card so you can enter SSA ( gotta have that acronym).
And having got that card, go and blow up an aeroplane tomorrow if you really feel pissed off about something.! Like tarmac idiots nitpicking because yr cards upside down. Jeezus wept, what a colony!
And as for the freedom to "chase someone down"...well thats been getting a bit of news time lately right here in Oz.
Pinch a packet of biscuits and nick off....Zappo! Finito
Oh wow! This thread has taken off in a whole new direction that I didn't forsee
. All good stuff by the way, compliments must especially go to Leady
!
By the way when is Jonesy going to court next???
. All good stuff by the way, compliments must especially go to Leady!By the way when is Jonesy going to court next???
Videos and etc... ALERT for FNQ
If that is the Jonesy as in the keeping up with show.??? be advised that the CASA Investigator was one Mark Haslam. (FYOP Make a note of that)
Obviously a person that likes to watch aviation video programs and news clips to see who he can do over for any reg breaches he might 'detect'
See : CASA V Jonker (2008) NTMC 27.
Must have been verily pissed with that one. ...didnt have a win.
Bugger!, the court required 'beyond reasonable doubt'. How galling.
BE Alert... and alarmed all you FNQ folk, said Mark Haslam is now based in FNQ CNS office. NQ offices being famous for having CASA people make things up as they go along.... all in the name of safety of course.
As an ex AFP, he's looking for business ....as a 'knock-off' merchant ( ex AFP), any little thing will do.
You know CASA ..they can turn a little molehill into a courthouse Mt Everest. Occassionally they have a win, oft times they do a 1921 Expedition, break a leg and fall off. At great cost to the taxpayer.
So be warned. DONT talk to these people without legal backup.
And put away all those viddy cameras, and smart phone, lest clips get out.
ps: Let us know what happens to Jonesy.
Obviously a person that likes to watch aviation video programs and news clips to see who he can do over for any reg breaches he might 'detect'
See : CASA V Jonker (2008) NTMC 27.
Must have been verily pissed with that one. ...didnt have a win.
Bugger!, the court required 'beyond reasonable doubt'. How galling.
BE Alert... and alarmed all you FNQ folk, said Mark Haslam is now based in FNQ CNS office. NQ offices being famous for having CASA people make things up as they go along.... all in the name of safety of course.
As an ex AFP, he's looking for business ....as a 'knock-off' merchant ( ex AFP), any little thing will do.
You know CASA ..they can turn a little molehill into a courthouse Mt Everest. Occassionally they have a win, oft times they do a 1921 Expedition, break a leg and fall off. At great cost to the taxpayer.
So be warned. DONT talk to these people without legal backup.
And put away all those viddy cameras, and smart phone, lest clips get out.
ps: Let us know what happens to Jonesy.
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Small plums
Sounds like the perfect fit for CASA, couldn't muster up the testicular fortitude to hassle people face to face and would rather hide behind a desk watching Y Tube and nailing people that way! Great work.
aroa you mean this case:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority v Jonker
I thought Haslam had been in CS office for quite a while, it's funny how these investigator types all hark back to the AFP, QPS etc..etc
Couldn't get a six figure salary pounding the beat so they take up a position enforcing laws they know nothing about, yeah that makes sense!
These CASA enforcers soon discover it's very hard to up the quota investigating dodgy operators from the big end of town, so instead they pick on the little guys with dodgy video footage, yeah that makes sense!
Civil Aviation Safety Authority v Jonker
I thought Haslam had been in CS office for quite a while, it's funny how these investigator types all hark back to the AFP, QPS etc..etc
Couldn't get a six figure salary pounding the beat so they take up a position enforcing laws they know nothing about, yeah that makes sense!These CASA enforcers soon discover it's very hard to up the quota investigating dodgy operators from the big end of town, so instead they pick on the little guys with dodgy video footage, yeah that makes sense!
I think we may be able to come to the conclusion from Jonkers and Quadrio and that it would be foolhardy for ANY Australian Pilot to post video footage of ANY of their activities, on the ground or in the air at any time, since even the most innocent footage may be grounds to start an investigation and prosecution.
I'm also now in the market for a GPS data logger for use on every flight.
I'm also now in the market for a GPS data logger for use on every flight.
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I see a lot of difference between John Q's situation on Jonker's situation.
Mainly that the NT Police reported the matter to CASA.
The footage on video was an ABC program.
The court decided that there was insufficient evidence to substantiate a reckless flying charge.
To me the system worked.
Cheers
BH
Mainly that the NT Police reported the matter to CASA.
The footage on video was an ABC program.
The court decided that there was insufficient evidence to substantiate a reckless flying charge.
To me the system worked.
Cheers
BH
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CASA must have been sure they had this guy stitched up to go to a real court rather than the Kangaroo variety (AAT) as in the JQ case.
Oh well I guess they can still do the old "Not a fit and proper person" thing,
or get an FOI to inform medical that he though they were drunk six months ago and pull his medical. Do they still pull the"We suspect this person Psycho" stunt? still lots of options for them to screw this citizen. One wonders why they bothered putting the Reg's in the criminal code, they dont seem to use it much and when they do it seems they get their ears boxed more often than not.
Oh well I guess they can still do the old "Not a fit and proper person" thing,
or get an FOI to inform medical that he though they were drunk six months ago and pull his medical. Do they still pull the"We suspect this person Psycho" stunt? still lots of options for them to screw this citizen. One wonders why they bothered putting the Reg's in the criminal code, they dont seem to use it much and when they do it seems they get their ears boxed more often than not.
What works...
Jeez BH thinks its a system that works.!! FFS.!
Jonker got 'justice' in the end... but at a cost.
Wouldnt it have been better... after the NT Police (av experts?) complaint to TALK to Mr Jonker, and go thru the wherewithall of low level News video missions and decide what both parties require/need/ want, and how to go about it.
And it could all end there, a potential/possible safety issue resolved with a cooperative approach. But NO, all CASA persons of the ex-police type see is a conviction, and a few brownie points.
People like Haslam & Co are fetishists for the punitive approach to aviation safety. Every little 'thing' is a crime,Whack em in court... that'll make the world safer from falling aeroplanes. And cost people time, stress and money.
Does CASA give a (non) flying fcuk about that!..of course not... endless time to spend "investigating", generating "work" for themselves, and a bucket of taxpayers dollars to tip on it, successful court outcome or otherwise. And the net benefit to safety is?????
And the net benefit for the industry to look to CASA as a place of integrity, fair dealing, honesty and consistency is an FN BIG NIL.!!
Which means their code of conduct is total crap.
They just do what they want. Whatever it takes. Power crazy
Jonker got 'justice' in the end... but at a cost.
Wouldnt it have been better... after the NT Police (av experts?) complaint to TALK to Mr Jonker, and go thru the wherewithall of low level News video missions and decide what both parties require/need/ want, and how to go about it.
And it could all end there, a potential/possible safety issue resolved with a cooperative approach. But NO, all CASA persons of the ex-police type see is a conviction, and a few brownie points.
People like Haslam & Co are fetishists for the punitive approach to aviation safety. Every little 'thing' is a crime,Whack em in court... that'll make the world safer from falling aeroplanes. And cost people time, stress and money.
Does CASA give a (non) flying fcuk about that!..of course not... endless time to spend "investigating", generating "work" for themselves, and a bucket of taxpayers dollars to tip on it, successful court outcome or otherwise. And the net benefit to safety is?????
And the net benefit for the industry to look to CASA as a place of integrity, fair dealing, honesty and consistency is an FN BIG NIL.!!
Which means their code of conduct is total crap.
They just do what they want. Whatever it takes. Power crazy
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The Kraut is back..!!
Long live ze Kraut!!
Hey SK good to see your still with us, what 'pearls of wisdom' have you found in your grand adventures!
Long live ze Kraut!!
Hey SK good to see your still with us, what 'pearls of wisdom' have you found in your grand adventures!
I trust you vill all join viz me at ze coronation of ze new King - FOI (oops) F/O Redflags
Herr Redflags has helped me make zis company vot it ist today -soooo....it ist time zis voz recognised
Sooooo...everyvun raise a stein for the new Chief Fleigenpoop Redflags.
OK. Back to verk or I vill cancel Easter.
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99 is not the 100 it's worth.
Willkommen zurück Sour`Kraut.
The guys certainly have identified the Bavarian flavor of this on going, tyre destroying bunfight. The spin seems to cover the glaring obscenities , so all is well. The only character omitted appears to be the fearless leader.
May I offer the following as food for thought, every outfit needs a clearly defined 'leader' of men (and the other ones, uhhmm, wotcha call 'em again) ; anyway - I commend as the antagonist :-
All you boys need is a 'Hogan', comes the hour comes the man; perhaps.
The guys certainly have identified the Bavarian flavor of this on going, tyre destroying bunfight. The spin seems to cover the glaring obscenities , so all is well. The only character omitted appears to be the fearless leader.
May I offer the following as food for thought, every outfit needs a clearly defined 'leader' of men (and the other ones, uhhmm, wotcha call 'em again) ; anyway - I commend as the antagonist :-
Wikipedia -Colonel Klink: Kommandant Oberst (Colonel) Wilhelm Klink (Werner Klemperer) is an old-line Luftwaffe officer of aristocratic (Junker) Prussian descent, and a social climber. He was born in Leipzig in the early 1890s, though he refers to Düsseldorf, where he attended the Gymnasium (high school) (graduating 43rd in his class), as his home town.
After failing the entrance exams to study law or medicine, he received an appointment from Kaiser Wilhelm II to a military academy, through the influence of his uncle, the Bürgermeister's barber, and graduated 95th in his class – the only one who has not risen to the rank of general. However, when questioned by Colonel Hogan, Colonel Klink admits that many of his higher-ranking classmates have been killed in action or shot by Hitler.
The nearest he ever comes to General is when Hogan tricks the German General Staff into thinking Klink will be the General to repel the D Day invasion. When faced with a decision whether to move the German reserves to Normandy or not Klink can only order more champagne!
He has fencing armor in his dining room and wears a monocle. In one episode it shows him sleeping with the monocle in, but in another, he wakes up and puts it on. [This monocle often reflects an image of the round studio lights.] One episode has a brief shot of his office showing that Klink has a pompous coat of arms on his wall.
In another episode when he thinks he is going to be rich, he claims his 500-year-old name will finally have some money as well.
A veteran aviator of the First World War, Klink happily lives out the end of his military career in the relative comfort and safety of a prison camp commandant's billet - although in one episode he wished he was piloting a Heinkel bomber again, and also wants his old bomb group back. {Even as a pilot his skills are suspect: during World War I he panicked and crashed which resulted in his passenger ace "The Blue Baron" {a parody of The Red Baron} with a permanent limp}.
He has been stuck at the rank of colonel for 20 years with an efficiency rating a few points above "miserable".
In a few episodes Klink is seen wearing the Pour le Mérite (or The Blue Max); Iron Cross and the Parachutist Badge.
After failing the entrance exams to study law or medicine, he received an appointment from Kaiser Wilhelm II to a military academy, through the influence of his uncle, the Bürgermeister's barber, and graduated 95th in his class – the only one who has not risen to the rank of general. However, when questioned by Colonel Hogan, Colonel Klink admits that many of his higher-ranking classmates have been killed in action or shot by Hitler.
The nearest he ever comes to General is when Hogan tricks the German General Staff into thinking Klink will be the General to repel the D Day invasion. When faced with a decision whether to move the German reserves to Normandy or not Klink can only order more champagne!
He has fencing armor in his dining room and wears a monocle. In one episode it shows him sleeping with the monocle in, but in another, he wakes up and puts it on. [This monocle often reflects an image of the round studio lights.] One episode has a brief shot of his office showing that Klink has a pompous coat of arms on his wall.
In another episode when he thinks he is going to be rich, he claims his 500-year-old name will finally have some money as well.
A veteran aviator of the First World War, Klink happily lives out the end of his military career in the relative comfort and safety of a prison camp commandant's billet - although in one episode he wished he was piloting a Heinkel bomber again, and also wants his old bomb group back. {Even as a pilot his skills are suspect: during World War I he panicked and crashed which resulted in his passenger ace "The Blue Baron" {a parody of The Red Baron} with a permanent limp}.
He has been stuck at the rank of colonel for 20 years with an efficiency rating a few points above "miserable".
In a few episodes Klink is seen wearing the Pour le Mérite (or The Blue Max); Iron Cross and the Parachutist Badge.
K maybe SK is in the 'Schitzen Hausen' fighting for position at GD's trough, or he could be consulting with the Fuhrer about their d-day moves, while contemplating what to do with that pesky Goebbels!