Excuse me IF this is posted elsewhere, I just did a long search and could not see anything.
Just been watching the news, had a story about Qantas Link aircraft that the ALAEA are saying have cockpit door locks that can be opened by anyone with even their rolled up boarding pass.
NOT in any way criticising Qantas, what I would like to know applies to ANY Aussie Operator.
I retired before all these (secure/real) cockpit door locks etc were introduced, and I am just curious to know IF any of these devices are not working as they should, is that an airworthy problem?
What I mean is (in Australia) does a defect in any of these things, like the cockpit door locks, mean that an LAME can (should even) refuse to release the aircraft to service?
And also the Flight Crew, can they refuse to accept the aircraft?
Okay, thank you, as I said NO sinister reason for wanting to know, just we didn't have those secure doors for the almost 40 years I was in the Industry.
Could you, or someone else, just please provide a little more detail?
I get that you don't go, but does a U/S cockpit door lock nowadays make the aircraft unserviceable/not airworthy, OR is a different law/regulation, OR just Company policy??
Flight Deck Door Lock system (Not 14 CFR 25.795 Compliant)
C 1 0 (M) May be inoperative provided: a) Door lock solenoid is deactivated in locked position, and b) Door is verified to lock and unlock manually.
C 1 0 May be inoperative provided supplemental flight deck door security device is installed and operates normally.
D 1 0 May be inoperative provided all-cargo operations are being conducted.
So the only MMEL relief is when something else is there as a lock or there are no pax. Seems sensible enough.
The B777 MMEL on the same site includes various lock systems which are 25.795 compliant and all have much the same kind of conditions - see the ATA52 section.
Airsupport, Aussie registered 717 MEL allows dispatch, for 10 days if memory serves, with various parts of the Flt Deck door locking mechanism (normally controlled electronically) u/s. BUT the door must be lockable in flight.
Ahh for the good ole open door policy of days of yore.
Last edited by Capt Claret; 27th Oct 2010 at 06:42.
Reason: Phat phingers
Location: within a circle in a spiral, within a wheel within a wheel, never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel.
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The Problem with cockpit door locks.
The biggest problem with cockpit door locks is that they exclusively lock from the cockpit side. Thus there is nothing to protect the travelling public from the Pilots going crazy mid-flight and shooting everyone in the cabin. Whilst it is true that some of this risk has been mitigated by the mandatory security screening of Pilots, the only way to eliminate this risk entirely is to 'seal' the pilots in by having door locks only on the cabin side.
I propose that we send in a submission to a senator about this blatent security oversight.
Ahh for the good ole open door policy of days od yore.
Yes, I am very glad this rubbish was not in for all the decades I was in the Industry, would have made for some incredibly long and boring flights.
Also I feel so sorry for kids today, back in 70s and 80s when our kids were young, every flight we did, and there were heaps, the kids always got to go up to the cockpit for a visit, something our grandkids now will never get to experience.
My family moved to Cairns when I was a kid and we used to fly down to SY every couple of years for Christmas. ALL day in the air then - DC-3 and chg to DC-4 at BN. Many a visit 'up front' then - its wot got me started.....
Geez mate...........you forgot the safety glasses AND the hearing protection for the both of you when doing the old 'how to open the cockpit door with the paddle-pop stick or a rolled-up boarding pass' trick. Don't you know that you could get seriously hurt doing that sort of stuff without all of the right PPE.
Grape vine says that the company took the LAME's involved to FWA citing unprotected industrial action for snagging quite a few aircraft with the same problem.
Increduously the commisioner agreed, never mind the LAME's responsibilities and duty of care according to the CASA regs!
Once the matter became public the forever supportive company stood the LAME's down.
Where is the ATSB and CASA when this sort of crap is going on?
