Virgin Blue hiring
Stiffy...
cynicism aside, it will be a long road to a jet command, certainly in excess of 10 years. The glory days of 2 or even 5 years to command won't be back, that's just maths.
There are plenty more retirements from jet left seats coming up, and the over 65 rules may change back, prompting more.
Keep in mind that while a long combined list of VAA/VAI/VARA/VANZ might sound bad, it does mean that every single move above, creates an opportunity.
GW
cynicism aside, it will be a long road to a jet command, certainly in excess of 10 years. The glory days of 2 or even 5 years to command won't be back, that's just maths.
There are plenty more retirements from jet left seats coming up, and the over 65 rules may change back, prompting more.
Keep in mind that while a long combined list of VAA/VAI/VARA/VANZ might sound bad, it does mean that every single move above, creates an opportunity.
GW
The Aussie life style is worth a lot.
The refueller told them the lights were actually the up-turned eyes of the flies.
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Just telling how it is after seeing internal company emails.... don't shoot the messenger 
never said I regret joining VANZ, quite the opposite actually. Great company, great people and great places to fly. Just know that coming here now means a long stint in NZ or a long time in the back of the 777 if thats what you choose to do. I'm happy with the choice I made.
never said I regret joining VANZ, quite the opposite actually. Great company, great people and great places to fly. Just know that coming here now means a long stint in NZ or a long time in the back of the 777 if thats what you choose to do. I'm happy with the choice I made.
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So if QANTAS start recruiting next year, Virgin might have to rethink their self proclaimed title of "employer of choice" after dozens leave when the option of 72k to be a 777 SO, or being off shored to NZ on a B-scale (both for well over 5+ years) is found wanting.
There will be hundreds of applications for the dozens of vacant positions and the management know that. It might not be worth jumping ship if you've got a few years in though as you'll be at the back of the QF list with yet more jump seat time ahead of you.
You could join J* and make the left seat of an A320 or join QF and still be a second officer in the same time period.
You could join J* and make the left seat of an A320 or join QF and still be a second officer in the same time period.
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Just to give one example of whats happening, a FO of 14 years experience, lately on the 767 fleet, was only offered a SO position on the 380. A few, very few, others in his position got FO slots on the domestic 737 fleet. A nice reward for loyal service - not. 
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That said the cork is about to be pulled from the bottle.
Someone mentioned earlier that they knew someone who spent 18 years as an S/O then 2 as an F/O before command. My belief is that QF are about to enter one of those gang buster stages which comes along rarely where there will be massive recruitment, massive training in all ranks and opportunities we could only dream about a few years ago.
I firmly believe I will be back in a window seat within short order and have seniority for a 737 command within 5 years.
I reckon new joiners now will probably spend less than 5 years as an S/O if they take their first F/O opportunity. I reckon the 737 fleet will be decimated by the arrival of the 787 so the 737 slots will go very junior. Like all waves though, it's the guys that get in first that get the best ride. Get on late, and languish.
Sorry about the thread drift, but if you learn lessons from history you'll know that Qantas are the real employer of choice, despite Virgin's assertions to the contrary. You will also know that when Qantas recruits in large numbers, like it has in the past, and is about to do again, it drives the whole recruiting process of Virgin, military, regionals and GA alike.
So chin up. Virgin may find very shortly that their hold files are rapidly diminishing as their candidates find a better offer.
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Interesting post IsDon...I have been in the industry 30 years next year and have seen only one period where there was a "pilot shortage" during 2007-9. Having said that the company I work for has seen over 70 pilots walk out the door in the last 18 months due to poor management decisions via the 2014 pilot contract "negotiations".
Admittedly the company I work for is overseas, however my point is that all these pilots have walked into better pay and in most cases better conditions. The recruitment going on in China is significant and has taken quite a few of our pilots, as has Viet Nam, Middle East and Iceland. If this drive continues it will have an effect eventually. Not only in pilot numbers but in wages. Currently some offers are as high as US290K per annum - NET. If coming retirement numbers are significant in QANTAS and the requirement for pilots continue from areas like China then your comments may prove prophetic IsDon...
Admittedly the company I work for is overseas, however my point is that all these pilots have walked into better pay and in most cases better conditions. The recruitment going on in China is significant and has taken quite a few of our pilots, as has Viet Nam, Middle East and Iceland. If this drive continues it will have an effect eventually. Not only in pilot numbers but in wages. Currently some offers are as high as US290K per annum - NET. If coming retirement numbers are significant in QANTAS and the requirement for pilots continue from areas like China then your comments may prove prophetic IsDon...
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Virgin has been in the position for the last decade of being the place most guys wanted to work for. Whispers of quick commands, solid work conditions and a generally positive atmosphere day to day have ensured a long line up out the door to a sought after slot in domestic. It was hard to find too many people who had much to say that was negative about the place.
Cut to 2015 however and a young workforce will ensure quick commands are a thing of the past. Qantas has always been this way however they pay handsomely so the wait, albeit frustrating, was well rewarded.
Virgin cannot provide this. The initial intake of SOs back in the day were generally fairly fresh GA guys who could take the pay hit (or raise in many circumstances) and stick around for their 2 years prior to their move onto domestic. The story now is very different, lots of highly experienced ex regional turboprop captains and even a handful of ex jet FOs and captains who would have taken a major hit to join the happy family.
The $72k you signed up for isn't looking so flash anymore. Reflect as you pax across the Pacific dressed in a suit sitting between two kids in seat 65B - a sea of names on the seniority list, little movement and little chance of any expansion or even a new jet within the next 5-10 years. You want to fly a 737 instead? Sure, move your family over to NZ for a similar amount of time, at the end of that you'll have earned your spot on an ejet. You'll now progress onto less pay than the lowest paid pilot at QF.
Ask anyone who has been through the recruitment process in the last 2-3 years and see what they think of Virgin. Months between updates, take it or leave it offers for people who were promised something and had no choice but to take something else. And people who had a job offer and never heard back again. Call it business, call it aviation in Australia but it's a peep through the keyhole at how you'll be valued on the inside.
Anyone who thinks a big QF recruitment drive wont affect Virgin is dreaming. Other than the lucky few (and good on them) who got in during the first 5 years, Virgin is a dead end. For those other guys who have experienced the Virgin 'flair' first hand, the next couple of years will speak volumes.
Always was and always will be low cost
Cut to 2015 however and a young workforce will ensure quick commands are a thing of the past. Qantas has always been this way however they pay handsomely so the wait, albeit frustrating, was well rewarded.
Virgin cannot provide this. The initial intake of SOs back in the day were generally fairly fresh GA guys who could take the pay hit (or raise in many circumstances) and stick around for their 2 years prior to their move onto domestic. The story now is very different, lots of highly experienced ex regional turboprop captains and even a handful of ex jet FOs and captains who would have taken a major hit to join the happy family.
The $72k you signed up for isn't looking so flash anymore. Reflect as you pax across the Pacific dressed in a suit sitting between two kids in seat 65B - a sea of names on the seniority list, little movement and little chance of any expansion or even a new jet within the next 5-10 years. You want to fly a 737 instead? Sure, move your family over to NZ for a similar amount of time, at the end of that you'll have earned your spot on an ejet. You'll now progress onto less pay than the lowest paid pilot at QF.
Ask anyone who has been through the recruitment process in the last 2-3 years and see what they think of Virgin. Months between updates, take it or leave it offers for people who were promised something and had no choice but to take something else. And people who had a job offer and never heard back again. Call it business, call it aviation in Australia but it's a peep through the keyhole at how you'll be valued on the inside.
Anyone who thinks a big QF recruitment drive wont affect Virgin is dreaming. Other than the lucky few (and good on them) who got in during the first 5 years, Virgin is a dead end. For those other guys who have experienced the Virgin 'flair' first hand, the next couple of years will speak volumes.
Always was and always will be low cost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLovett
Just to give one example of whats happening, a FO of 14 years experience, lately on the 767 fleet, was only offered a SO position on the 380. A few, very few, others in his position got FO slots on the domestic 737 fleet. A nice reward for loyal service - not.
I'm one if those 767 F/Os now an S/O. 13 years in QF.
That said the cork is about to be pulled from the bottle.
Someone mentioned earlier that they knew someone who spent 18 years as an S/O then 2 as an F/O before command. My belief is that QF are about to enter one of those gang buster stages which comes along rarely where there will be massive recruitment, massive training in all ranks and opportunities we could only dream about a few years ago.
I firmly believe I will be back in a window seat within short order and have seniority for a 737 command within 5 years.
I reckon new joiners now will probably spend less than 5 years as an S/O if they take their first F/O opportunity. I reckon the 737 fleet will be decimated by the arrival of the 787 so the 737 slots will go very junior. Like all waves though, it's the guys that get in first that get the best ride. Get on late, and languish.
Sorry about the thread drift, but if you learn lessons from history you'll know that Qantas are the real employer of choice, despite Virgin's assertions to the contrary. You will also know that when Qantas recruits in large numbers, like it has in the past, and is about to do again, it drives the whole recruiting process of Virgin, military, regionals and GA alike.
So chin up. Virgin may find very shortly that their hold files are rapidly diminishing as their candidates find a better offer.
Originally Posted by PLovett
Just to give one example of whats happening, a FO of 14 years experience, lately on the 767 fleet, was only offered a SO position on the 380. A few, very few, others in his position got FO slots on the domestic 737 fleet. A nice reward for loyal service - not.
I'm one if those 767 F/Os now an S/O. 13 years in QF.
That said the cork is about to be pulled from the bottle.
Someone mentioned earlier that they knew someone who spent 18 years as an S/O then 2 as an F/O before command. My belief is that QF are about to enter one of those gang buster stages which comes along rarely where there will be massive recruitment, massive training in all ranks and opportunities we could only dream about a few years ago.
I firmly believe I will be back in a window seat within short order and have seniority for a 737 command within 5 years.
I reckon new joiners now will probably spend less than 5 years as an S/O if they take their first F/O opportunity. I reckon the 737 fleet will be decimated by the arrival of the 787 so the 737 slots will go very junior. Like all waves though, it's the guys that get in first that get the best ride. Get on late, and languish.
Sorry about the thread drift, but if you learn lessons from history you'll know that Qantas are the real employer of choice, despite Virgin's assertions to the contrary. You will also know that when Qantas recruits in large numbers, like it has in the past, and is about to do again, it drives the whole recruiting process of Virgin, military, regionals and GA alike.
So chin up. Virgin may find very shortly that their hold files are rapidly diminishing as their candidates find a better offer.
If it happens then good fortune IsDon, I reckon you deserve it after what you have had to put up with for the past several years.
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Yes it's a Virgin thread. Just pointing out to those weighing up their options and looking for their first jet job that there might be some rare good news not so far away. That good news will affect Virgin and will influence the decisions these people make.
Sorry you don't agree. Frankly don't care.
BTW Thanks for the sentiment PLovett
Doubt it. You still have a couple hundred LWOP staff, not to mention a slew of cadets waiting to come back. If you think the doors will be open to the public for Qantas anytime this side of 2018 you might just be a tad disappointed.
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But go ahead and try and convince people you know what you're talking about.
For what it's worth LWOP has been stopped as of recently. Anyone currently in LWOP will be faced with a decision of returning or resigning as their LWOP contracts end.
Yes there are plenty of cadets in the regionals. Some of them have commands and may not even want to be an S/O.
Even if all of them decided to come across, and all those on LWOP decided to return, that still won't be enough. General recruitment for those off the street will happen in 2016.
Now. Enough about QF as it seems some are a little tetchy about anything other than Virgin being discussed in these threads. There's a QF thread running concurrently. I'll be over there.
A thread of 71 pages and 1400 posts can certainly afford a well written post like that from our QF collegue. He or she is just offering a different perspective to people on the outside. Ultimately they will make their own minds up.
I did read on another thread that their average age would be around 50. I found this surprisingly old.
I did read on another thread that their average age would be around 50. I found this surprisingly old.
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Virgin has been in the position for the last decade of being the place most guys wanted to work for. Whispers of quick commands, solid work conditions and a generally positive atmosphere day to day have ensured a long line up out the door to a sought after slot in domestic. It was hard to find too many people who had much to say that was negative about the place.
Cut to 2015 however and a young workforce will ensure quick commands are a thing of the past. Qantas has always been this way however they pay handsomely so the wait, albeit frustrating, was well rewarded.
Virgin cannot provide this. The initial intake of SOs back in the day were generally fairly fresh GA guys who could take the pay hit (or raise in many circumstances) and stick around for their 2 years prior to their move onto domestic. The story now is very different, lots of highly experienced ex regional turboprop captains and even a handful of ex jet FOs and captains who would have taken a major hit to join the happy family.
The $72k you signed up for isn't looking so flash anymore. Reflect as you pax across the Pacific dressed in a suit sitting between two kids in seat 65B - a sea of names on the seniority list, little movement and little chance of any expansion or even a new jet within the next 5-10 years. You want to fly a 737 instead? Sure, move your family over to NZ for a similar amount of time, at the end of that you'll have earned your spot on an ejet. You'll now progress onto less pay than the lowest paid pilot at QF.
Ask anyone who has been through the recruitment process in the last 2-3 years and see what they think of Virgin. Months between updates, take it or leave it offers for people who were promised something and had no choice but to take something else. And people who had a job offer and never heard back again. Call it business, call it aviation in Australia but it's a peep through the keyhole at how you'll be valued on the inside.
Anyone who thinks a big QF recruitment drive wont affect Virgin is dreaming. Other than the lucky few (and good on them) who got in during the first 5 years, Virgin is a dead end. For those other guys who have experienced the Virgin 'flair' first hand, the next couple of years will speak volumes.
Always was and always will be low cost
Cut to 2015 however and a young workforce will ensure quick commands are a thing of the past. Qantas has always been this way however they pay handsomely so the wait, albeit frustrating, was well rewarded.
Virgin cannot provide this. The initial intake of SOs back in the day were generally fairly fresh GA guys who could take the pay hit (or raise in many circumstances) and stick around for their 2 years prior to their move onto domestic. The story now is very different, lots of highly experienced ex regional turboprop captains and even a handful of ex jet FOs and captains who would have taken a major hit to join the happy family.
The $72k you signed up for isn't looking so flash anymore. Reflect as you pax across the Pacific dressed in a suit sitting between two kids in seat 65B - a sea of names on the seniority list, little movement and little chance of any expansion or even a new jet within the next 5-10 years. You want to fly a 737 instead? Sure, move your family over to NZ for a similar amount of time, at the end of that you'll have earned your spot on an ejet. You'll now progress onto less pay than the lowest paid pilot at QF.
Ask anyone who has been through the recruitment process in the last 2-3 years and see what they think of Virgin. Months between updates, take it or leave it offers for people who were promised something and had no choice but to take something else. And people who had a job offer and never heard back again. Call it business, call it aviation in Australia but it's a peep through the keyhole at how you'll be valued on the inside.
Anyone who thinks a big QF recruitment drive wont affect Virgin is dreaming. Other than the lucky few (and good on them) who got in during the first 5 years, Virgin is a dead end. For those other guys who have experienced the Virgin 'flair' first hand, the next couple of years will speak volumes.
Always was and always will be low cost
Virgin has been in the position for the last decade of being the place most guys wanted to work for. Whispers of quick commands, solid work conditions and a generally positive atmosphere day to day have ensured a long line up out the door to a sought after slot in domestic. It was hard to find too many people who had much to say that was negative about the place.
Cut to 2015 however and a young workforce will ensure quick commands are a thing of the past. Qantas has always been this way however they pay handsomely so the wait, albeit frustrating, was well rewarded.
Virgin cannot provide this. The initial intake of SOs back in the day were generally fairly fresh GA guys who could take the pay hit (or raise in many circumstances) and stick around for their 2 years prior to their move onto domestic. The story now is very different, lots of highly experienced ex regional turboprop captains and even a handful of ex jet FOs and captains who would have taken a major hit to join the happy family.
The $72k you signed up for isn't looking so flash anymore. Reflect as you pax across the Pacific dressed in a suit sitting between two kids in seat 65B - a sea of names on the seniority list, little movement and little chance of any expansion or even a new jet within the next 5-10 years. You want to fly a 737 instead? Sure, move your family over to NZ for a similar amount of time, at the end of that you'll have earned your spot on an ejet. You'll now progress onto less pay than the lowest paid pilot at QF.
Ask anyone who has been through the recruitment process in the last 2-3 years and see what they think of Virgin. Months between updates, take it or leave it offers for people who were promised something and had no choice but to take something else. And people who had a job offer and never heard back again. Call it business, call it aviation in Australia but it's a peep through the keyhole at how you'll be valued on the inside.
Anyone who thinks a big QF recruitment drive wont affect Virgin is dreaming. Other than the lucky few (and good on them) who got in during the first 5 years, Virgin is a dead end. For those other guys who have experienced the Virgin 'flair' first hand, the next couple of years will speak volumes.
Always was and always will be low cost
Cut to 2015 however and a young workforce will ensure quick commands are a thing of the past. Qantas has always been this way however they pay handsomely so the wait, albeit frustrating, was well rewarded.
Virgin cannot provide this. The initial intake of SOs back in the day were generally fairly fresh GA guys who could take the pay hit (or raise in many circumstances) and stick around for their 2 years prior to their move onto domestic. The story now is very different, lots of highly experienced ex regional turboprop captains and even a handful of ex jet FOs and captains who would have taken a major hit to join the happy family.
The $72k you signed up for isn't looking so flash anymore. Reflect as you pax across the Pacific dressed in a suit sitting between two kids in seat 65B - a sea of names on the seniority list, little movement and little chance of any expansion or even a new jet within the next 5-10 years. You want to fly a 737 instead? Sure, move your family over to NZ for a similar amount of time, at the end of that you'll have earned your spot on an ejet. You'll now progress onto less pay than the lowest paid pilot at QF.
Ask anyone who has been through the recruitment process in the last 2-3 years and see what they think of Virgin. Months between updates, take it or leave it offers for people who were promised something and had no choice but to take something else. And people who had a job offer and never heard back again. Call it business, call it aviation in Australia but it's a peep through the keyhole at how you'll be valued on the inside.
Anyone who thinks a big QF recruitment drive wont affect Virgin is dreaming. Other than the lucky few (and good on them) who got in during the first 5 years, Virgin is a dead end. For those other guys who have experienced the Virgin 'flair' first hand, the next couple of years will speak volumes.
Always was and always will be low cost
exactly what is really going on in this "very" small part of the world.
Agreed, Virgin will always be a low cost carrier full of a lot of lucky average guys, lucky legends, legends, and many poor souls who just had bad timing. Unfortunately once a few of those lucky average guys make it to "positions of influence", or become the majority, any business is doomed.
I fear Virgin is in for a reality check as those seeds that were sown so many years ago come to fruition.
How did the pinnacle of Australian aviation end up this way?
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Heard up to 20 SO slots may be available this year but all have been tagged for F50 drivers so guess that means no external recruitment for a while yet.