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Old 18th Feb 2010, 23:36   #1 (permalink)
 
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Do Simulator Hours Count For Total Time

As the thread says can anyone advise if simulator hours count for total time.
I am talking of full motion sims (i.e boeing sims etc) not the synthetic trainers. I would have thought so since we do endorsements etc in them however thought I would ask the experts.... LOL
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 23:47   #2 (permalink)
 
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No, Simulator is just that simulation no matter that it is full motion.
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Old 19th Feb 2010, 06:20   #3 (permalink)
 
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No doesn't count as total time. Goes in the IF Gnd column from memory.
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Old 19th Feb 2010, 07:11   #4 (permalink)
 
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Thanks people. Genuine question and now throw this to the mix. I rang CASA licensing Department this arvo and the girl said it does if it is a full motion sim and not a synthetic trainer. She actually quoted me qantas and said it does go towards total time. Who bloody knows now.

Last edited by SilverSleuth; 19th Feb 2010 at 09:50.
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Old 19th Feb 2010, 08:41   #5 (permalink)
 
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It is logged as simulator time and does not go towards Grand Total Flying Hours or Total Aeronautical Experience.

Having said that, up to 100 hours of simulator time (including up to 25 hours synthetic trainer) can be credited towards your ATPL hours requirements. Therefore, although you don't log it as total time, the first 100 hours does count for something. You can get you ATPL with 1400 TAE + 100 hours simulator.

Another brilliant example of how we make the business of determining whether or not an individual is suitably qualified to command RPT operations confusing to the point of idiocy.
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Old 19th Feb 2010, 09:27   #6 (permalink)
 
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full motion sim: yes
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Old 19th Feb 2010, 09:48   #7 (permalink)
 
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Yes the whole thing is bizarre. I asked purely out of curiosity as I am long overdue updating the old log book. Now I have numerous opinions including the licensing department of casa telling me you can. Good to see there is a black and white definition on the casa website.
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Old 19th Feb 2010, 21:41   #8 (permalink)
 
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Full motion Sim ; "As if it were an aircraft". Therefore yes. Otherwise how is it you can get an endoresment for aircraft type in one and not see the real thing whilst doing it and then go fly a revenue flight the next day.
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Old 20th Feb 2010, 00:32   #9 (permalink)
 
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I wouldn't trust a bloody thing CASA tells you - unless its in black and white (and even then...), it's nothing more that the opinion of the person you spoke to.
I was recently informed by one genius that a PC/9 is definitely not a gas turbine-engined aircraft, rather a turbo-prop...
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Old 20th Feb 2010, 08:50   #10 (permalink)
 
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I think it comes down to what "level" the full motion sim is. As in how accurate the calibration maintenance is ect ect. I'm not an expert (thats for sure!) but had a discussion along the line of this a while ago. Memory of the conversation says Level D was the requirement and not all full motions are.
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Old 20th Feb 2010, 10:09   #11 (permalink)
 
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What does the inside of your log book say?
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Old 20th Feb 2010, 10:37   #12 (permalink)
 
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Personally I never have added sim hours to a total time but with over 10 000 hours I would have to have 500+ hours or so in the sim. It doesn't make a lick of difference to me however as I said, was just curious as I have heard conflicting reports. Since you can be endorsed in an airline sim you would think it may be correct. At least thats what casa told me.
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 10:51   #13 (permalink)
 
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With the advent of 'zero time' simulator training I think some pilots may confuse simulator CREDITS with ACTUAL FLIGHT time. Simulators are clever little buggers but to legitimately claim flying EXPERIENCE, you need to be airborne, defying gravity, out there battling the elements, growing some balls etc not looking for ways to pad out your resume.
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 20:34   #14 (permalink)
 
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Just because something may be credited for a specific purpose doesn't mean that it can be credited for any or all purposes. For example the rules require a certain number of hours of IF for the issue of a licence or instrument rating. All that IF could be done in flight however exceptions are available that allow up to a certain amount of training in a synthetic trainer to be credited. Doesn't mean that the synthetic trainer experience counts towards your in-flight IF time.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 04:52   #15 (permalink)
 
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NO, simulator hours DO NOT count for total time.

Refer to this guidance below from CASA :

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Pilot Log Books

Quote:
Flight Time :

means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking-off until the moment at which it comes to rest after landing. This is synonymous with 'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
In the case of a helicopter, whenever helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight, the time will be included in the flight time.
Quote:
Flight Simulator or Synthetic Trainer Time :

Practice in an approved simulator or trainer may be recorded in the section provided at the rear of the log book. The instrument flight element of the simulator time may be transferred to the 'Ground' column of the Instrument Flight section of the flight record.
If a Flight Simulator or Synthetic Trainer Practice section is not available in the log book, the details may be entered chronologically in the flight record, and the Instrument flight element transferred to a suitably titled column.
In older log books, the 'Ground Training' or 'Simulator' column of the Instrument section of the flight record may be used for 'Ground' entries

Last edited by John Citizen; 22nd Feb 2010 at 11:43.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 05:17   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
full motion sim: yes
NO

Make sure you also use the rego "BIC" if you want to log sim time as flight time
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 10:45   #17 (permalink)
 
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If it can't kill you when you get it wrong, then you're not flying and it's not flight time.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 10:45   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Full motion Sim ; "As if it were an aircraft". Therefore yes.
Full motion Sim - NO.

You can get an aircaft endorsement/type rating in Level D Simulator but this does not mean you can log this as flight time.

Flight time must be in an aircraft, not a simulator.

Quote:
Otherwise how is it you can get an endoresment for aircraft type in one and not see the real thing whilst doing it and then go fly a revenue flight the next day.
Yes, this is exactly how it is done !! You do your endorsement in the simulator and the first time you get to log flight time in that aircraft type is on a revenue flight !!

This is why it is known as a ZFT (Zero Flight Time) Simulator.

Below is quote from wikipedia

Autopilot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
The training or checking credits allowed of an FSTD are based on the level of qualification and the operator's training curriculum. For some experienced pilots, Level D FFS may be used for Zero Flight Time (ZFT) conversions from one type of aircraft to another. In ZFT conversions, no aircraft flight time is required, and the pilot first flies the aircraft (under the supervision of a Training Captain) on a revenue flight.

Last edited by John Citizen; 22nd Feb 2010 at 11:40.
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