Aircraft you love and hate to fly ...
Grandpa Aerotart
Flown
Cessna 150/152/172/180/182/185/195/206/210/310/402/404/441.
Piper 28-140/180/235, PA38, PA30/39, PA32-300, PA600-680p/700p
Beechcraft 35/36/76/55/58/80
Dehavilland Chipmunk (a little) Tiger Moths (a lot) DHC6 (a Helluva lot)
Embraer E110
Helio Courier HC250, Victa Airtourer, Pitts S2a, 8KCAB, PT17, RV10.
Jets F28/C560/DA200/BAE146/B767/B777
Probably missed some - there are a few more I have flown enough to feel competent in (at the time) but for various reasons didn't/haven't yet finished the type rating, like the DC3/BE200/T28D. Almost certainly won't with the Dak/Kingair but still hope to get around to finishing the T28D. There are a few more that I have flown but not landed or taken off - T6/Vampire (the mil jet Vampire) and B25 - so I don't really count them. The T6 is on my bucket list.
Never met an aeroplane I didn't like - there is no such thing as a bad aeroplane.
I would still enjoy climbing back into any of the above and still fly a handful of them.
Current in the C180/185/195/PT17/DH82a/RV10/B777. Even enjoyed a few hrs in a PA28-140 in the last few years.
As a few of my mates on this board will attest - show me an aeroplane, any aeroplane, and I get a silly grin. Give me the keys to something I haven't flown before and I get positively giddy...if its old enough to be 'pre keys' I am liable to embarrass myself
So many aeroplanes - so little time.
Cessna 150/152/172/180/182/185/195/206/210/310/402/404/441.
Piper 28-140/180/235, PA38, PA30/39, PA32-300, PA600-680p/700p
Beechcraft 35/36/76/55/58/80
Dehavilland Chipmunk (a little) Tiger Moths (a lot) DHC6 (a Helluva lot)
Embraer E110
Helio Courier HC250, Victa Airtourer, Pitts S2a, 8KCAB, PT17, RV10.
Jets F28/C560/DA200/BAE146/B767/B777
Probably missed some - there are a few more I have flown enough to feel competent in (at the time) but for various reasons didn't/haven't yet finished the type rating, like the DC3/BE200/T28D. Almost certainly won't with the Dak/Kingair but still hope to get around to finishing the T28D. There are a few more that I have flown but not landed or taken off - T6/Vampire (the mil jet Vampire) and B25 - so I don't really count them. The T6 is on my bucket list.
Never met an aeroplane I didn't like - there is no such thing as a bad aeroplane.
I would still enjoy climbing back into any of the above and still fly a handful of them.
Current in the C180/185/195/PT17/DH82a/RV10/B777. Even enjoyed a few hrs in a PA28-140 in the last few years.
As a few of my mates on this board will attest - show me an aeroplane, any aeroplane, and I get a silly grin. Give me the keys to something I haven't flown before and I get positively giddy...if its old enough to be 'pre keys' I am liable to embarrass myself
So many aeroplanes - so little time.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 6th Jun 2011 at 14:54.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Waiting for the fire
Age: 65
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Flown:
C170,172,172XP,177,180,185,206,210/5,208,188a,b,c,
Pa16,18,20,25,28a,b,c,32,32R,
Be24,33,36
DH82,104,114
Airtractor 301,401,402,502,602,802
Transavia PL12 (wtf)
RV6,Helio 250,Tecnam2002,Skyfox,Lightwing,Jab230,PT17,
T6,Auster,Citabria, must be more but can't remember.
The Jab is like poling around a lump of wood, with a suss engine
And the Airtruck speaks for itself, although any machine that
Will lift a tonne of disposable on 300hp ain't all bad.
Loved the DH twins (the Heron was the prototype).
AT402 and 802 the best workers.
Ayres Turbo Thrush, great sprayer off a decent strip.
And to my great delight, never have and hope not to fly a
Dromader. Whoever heard of a Polish camel?
C170,172,172XP,177,180,185,206,210/5,208,188a,b,c,
Pa16,18,20,25,28a,b,c,32,32R,
Be24,33,36
DH82,104,114
Airtractor 301,401,402,502,602,802
Transavia PL12 (wtf)
RV6,Helio 250,Tecnam2002,Skyfox,Lightwing,Jab230,PT17,
T6,Auster,Citabria, must be more but can't remember.
The Jab is like poling around a lump of wood, with a suss engine
And the Airtruck speaks for itself, although any machine that
Will lift a tonne of disposable on 300hp ain't all bad.
Loved the DH twins (the Heron was the prototype).
AT402 and 802 the best workers.
Ayres Turbo Thrush, great sprayer off a decent strip.
And to my great delight, never have and hope not to fly a
Dromader. Whoever heard of a Polish camel?
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Melbourne
Age: 77
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Cessna 170A owned for years and loved every flight, how Cessna reverse engineered this into the 172?????????????
Super Cub was Brilliant
DC9 was the sportscar of heavies, best part was teaching newbies to manualy beat the dutch rolls, they never could. True pilots aeroplane.
giving my age away now
Super Cub was Brilliant
DC9 was the sportscar of heavies, best part was teaching newbies to manualy beat the dutch rolls, they never could. True pilots aeroplane.
giving my age away now
Slight deviation re the original question but.....
Which aircraft would you suggest to own?
With 3 kids and missus (none of whom are massively keen on flying and thus need to be kept in some sort of comfort!) I'll need at least a 6-seater. Preferably I don't want a boring aircraft. It's bloody expensive these days but flying is meant to be fun!
I keep coming back to the A36, Navajo/Navajo CR or C340 for various reasons. Obviously budgetary considerations need to be allowed for and maintenance issues are a big factor. ETR and airframe hours are a major factor too.
Buying the thing is just the start. It's the ongoing expenses that I really need to think hard about. Yes I have heard that if it flies, floats or f***s - rent it! However with my experience so far aircraft aren't too bad - they don't rapidly depreciate like cars and they can provide access to the world that is otherwise impossible, almost whenever you want. Yeah ok I'm probably a romantic when it comes to a/c but I aint when it comes to forking out paper from the wallet unneccesarily!
I've flown heaps of different a/c (from DH82 to 747) and currently fly one of those electric European things with sidesticks - nice enough but not entirely exciting. Ironically the aircraft I'd like I've never flown, hence your advice appreciated..........
Preferred Candidates:
A36: Pros: Build quality, numbers in service, current production, club seating. Cons: Apparently a bit pricey to work on, engine compartment a bugger to access? Purchase price high (for post-83 upgrade models) compared to alternatives from Piper and Cessna.
Navajo: Pros: Heaps around, especially in the US: Got to watch total hours etc. Great pax comfort. Panther mods seem fantastic Cons: Overkill for family of 5 plus occasional grandparent! Build quality and/or accident history needs watching too.
C340: Pros: Cabin, pressurisation. A and RAM models really brilliant with VG's giving extra capacity that basic models lacked. Cons: Pressurisation! Not really necessary in Aus. The late models (1983/4) are dogs apparently.
Practical Alternatives:
C206/210: Great aircraft to fly but too squeezy in the back. Missus not too keen on high-wing.
C303 Crusader: Cheap enough though not many built. Havent flown one. Pilots ambivalent about handling qualities?
Chieftan: Too big for the job but there are some gorgeous low-hour a/c for sale in the US now. A crowd called 'Lock and Key' produce a real beauty.
Lance/Ch 6: A bit boring? Affordable though.
Saratoga: Also boring and new ones very pricey. If paying that much why not get an A36?
Seneca II or III: Good rear space and very affordable. Some have been flogged in training and they are also a bit boring. But they do get you from A to B fine.
B58: Love one but too expensive (esp post-83 models)
C310: Rear seat comfort a bit of an issue. Getting a bit old now too.
Impractical Alternatives:
Cessna 400 series: SID's issues. Spars etc give cause for concern.
Merlin - reading the Metro posts convinced me of that!!
Queen Air - obvious reasons
Cirrus: Plastic and expensive.
Malibu: Not so good for regional Australian aistrips and still expensive.
Duke: obvious reasons too.
King Air C90: I don't have that sort of $. It would have to go online somewhere to justify its existence. More headaches than I'd prefer!
Cheyenne 1 or 2: As above for King Air but seem a great aircraft for the $ these days. Who knows what the future of Avgas is but Avtur is here for a while and these cheaper turbines (esp with Garretts with higher TBO than PT6's) may well be a good investment. A Cheyenne 4LS with the Garretts is just too pricey sadly.
Beech 18: Right configuration. Right engines! Maintenance issues and fuel consumption something of a worry sadly.
Citation 1; I'm dreamin. Actually cheap to purchase but ongoing expenses give me nightmares.
Caravan: Still very expensive.
Anyhow, ideas and suggestions much appreciated!
Which aircraft would you suggest to own?
With 3 kids and missus (none of whom are massively keen on flying and thus need to be kept in some sort of comfort!) I'll need at least a 6-seater. Preferably I don't want a boring aircraft. It's bloody expensive these days but flying is meant to be fun!
I keep coming back to the A36, Navajo/Navajo CR or C340 for various reasons. Obviously budgetary considerations need to be allowed for and maintenance issues are a big factor. ETR and airframe hours are a major factor too.
Buying the thing is just the start. It's the ongoing expenses that I really need to think hard about. Yes I have heard that if it flies, floats or f***s - rent it! However with my experience so far aircraft aren't too bad - they don't rapidly depreciate like cars and they can provide access to the world that is otherwise impossible, almost whenever you want. Yeah ok I'm probably a romantic when it comes to a/c but I aint when it comes to forking out paper from the wallet unneccesarily!
I've flown heaps of different a/c (from DH82 to 747) and currently fly one of those electric European things with sidesticks - nice enough but not entirely exciting. Ironically the aircraft I'd like I've never flown, hence your advice appreciated..........
Preferred Candidates:
A36: Pros: Build quality, numbers in service, current production, club seating. Cons: Apparently a bit pricey to work on, engine compartment a bugger to access? Purchase price high (for post-83 upgrade models) compared to alternatives from Piper and Cessna.
Navajo: Pros: Heaps around, especially in the US: Got to watch total hours etc. Great pax comfort. Panther mods seem fantastic Cons: Overkill for family of 5 plus occasional grandparent! Build quality and/or accident history needs watching too.
C340: Pros: Cabin, pressurisation. A and RAM models really brilliant with VG's giving extra capacity that basic models lacked. Cons: Pressurisation! Not really necessary in Aus. The late models (1983/4) are dogs apparently.
Practical Alternatives:
C206/210: Great aircraft to fly but too squeezy in the back. Missus not too keen on high-wing.
C303 Crusader: Cheap enough though not many built. Havent flown one. Pilots ambivalent about handling qualities?
Chieftan: Too big for the job but there are some gorgeous low-hour a/c for sale in the US now. A crowd called 'Lock and Key' produce a real beauty.
Lance/Ch 6: A bit boring? Affordable though.
Saratoga: Also boring and new ones very pricey. If paying that much why not get an A36?
Seneca II or III: Good rear space and very affordable. Some have been flogged in training and they are also a bit boring. But they do get you from A to B fine.
B58: Love one but too expensive (esp post-83 models)
C310: Rear seat comfort a bit of an issue. Getting a bit old now too.
Impractical Alternatives:
Cessna 400 series: SID's issues. Spars etc give cause for concern.
Merlin - reading the Metro posts convinced me of that!!
Queen Air - obvious reasons
Cirrus: Plastic and expensive.
Malibu: Not so good for regional Australian aistrips and still expensive.
Duke: obvious reasons too.
King Air C90: I don't have that sort of $. It would have to go online somewhere to justify its existence. More headaches than I'd prefer!
Cheyenne 1 or 2: As above for King Air but seem a great aircraft for the $ these days. Who knows what the future of Avgas is but Avtur is here for a while and these cheaper turbines (esp with Garretts with higher TBO than PT6's) may well be a good investment. A Cheyenne 4LS with the Garretts is just too pricey sadly.
Beech 18: Right configuration. Right engines! Maintenance issues and fuel consumption something of a worry sadly.
Citation 1; I'm dreamin. Actually cheap to purchase but ongoing expenses give me nightmares.
Caravan: Still very expensive.
Anyhow, ideas and suggestions much appreciated!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Love
stearman
RV6-7
C185
Super Decathalon
tiger moth
PA 20
Like
tecnams
C182
C210
Arrow
Cherokee six
not fussed if I ever fly one again(hate is a bit strong)
sportstar
jabiru
warrior
Ibis GS700
the bucket list
DC3
P40
Pitts
Extra 300
edge 540
Super Cub
C180
Caravan
stearman
RV6-7
C185
Super Decathalon
tiger moth
PA 20
Like
tecnams
C182
C210
Arrow
Cherokee six
not fussed if I ever fly one again(hate is a bit strong)
sportstar
jabiru
warrior
Ibis GS700
the bucket list
DC3
P40
Pitts
Extra 300
edge 540
Super Cub
C180
Caravan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Zoo
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Al take a serious look at the flying you actually do, especially with three kids and a missus who are NOT massively keen on flying.
For a relatively inexpensive, fun toy it's hard to beat one of the RV's - decent climb and cruise performance, beautiful to fly, nice for formation and gentleman's aerobatics. On the rare occasions you do actually want to take more than one other person, rent the A36, Navajo, C310, Baron, C402B, whatever takes your fancy...
...at the end of the day they're all just six seat trucks designed to take people from A to B, and while they might be nice to fly, they don't fit the fun category.
For a relatively inexpensive, fun toy it's hard to beat one of the RV's - decent climb and cruise performance, beautiful to fly, nice for formation and gentleman's aerobatics. On the rare occasions you do actually want to take more than one other person, rent the A36, Navajo, C310, Baron, C402B, whatever takes your fancy...
...at the end of the day they're all just six seat trucks designed to take people from A to B, and while they might be nice to fly, they don't fit the fun category.
This has been one of the more interesting threads to appear on PPrune for a long time. Not just the breadth of types flown by the contributors, but the varying opinions of what actually constitutes a “Loved Most/Liked Least” type.
Like Chimbu (amongst others), I’ve enjoyed every aeroplane I’ve ever flown, assuredly though some much more than others! So how do you determine which you prefer most? Surely it’s not just the aircraft’s qualities, but also the individuals’ situation/lifestyle at the time?
For example, amongst my favourites ranks the F.27. Apart from its feeling of immense strength, in reality it had few great qualities. Sorry, Saabsforever, in itself it was NOT “wonderful to fly”. In addition, the Ansett operation involved the vagaries of flying to Tasmania in the winter, lots of NDB and circling approaches, often in a “black hole” environment. Yet it was my first airline command, and I loved every minute of it.
Old but not bold nominates the DC-9, but was it, as he states, “a true pilot’s aeroplane”?? I thought the handling quite ordinary, you were very much aware of flying servo tabs, you didn’t fly it so much as simply point it. And yet it had a lovely well laid out (by the standards of the day) and superbly quiet cockpit, wonderful automatic systems that should have made Boeing blush and, point to point, it was quick. Everyone on it (including me) loved it!
Wawa Zone names the Pitts. Hmm, in my humble opinion it’s a perfect vehicle for aerobatics but not a particularly “nice” aeroplane.
18 Wheeler mentions the “Classic” B747. Amongst the downsides was a noisy and poorly air-conditioned flight deck. Who can forget a max weight departure – questionable longitudinal stability, a 5 knot margin between max structural speed for your existing flap setting and minimum manoeuvring speed for the next selection, and you had a bank angle restriction between F5 and F1 – all this from memory, no poofy speed tape or smart flight director here. In theory I should have preferred the B744; much better avionics, an EICAS, plus superior handling and it was far easier to land – yet it simply went too far. With my employer you only flew long haul plus a regional trip every six months (your line check) and, as a captain, I averaged two landings per month. I liked it not! To me, the “Classic” will forever be the Queen of the Skies, and again I loved every minute.
So maybe you could add degree of challenge in promoting an aircraft into the “most liked” column? Enough rambling!
Flown:
Beech 18/23/33/35/36/55/58/65/80/90/95.
Cessna 150/172/175/180/182/205/206/210/310/320/337/402
Chipmunk, DH.82, Dove
Piper PA18/22/23/24/28/30
Pitts S2
Victa 100/115, CT-4
Wirraway, Winjeel, Harvard
Lear 45
F.27, DC-4/Carvair
B727, B737, B747, B744, B777, DC-9
Loved Most:
Chipmunk – fabulous handling, it simply oozes character
B777 – easy to run out of superlatives here, what an airliner should be, it always made even me look good
DC-9 – the quietest cockpit ever, a very slick machine
F.27 – a true character-building aeroplane
Liked least:
Cessna 205 – lousy handling & performance, makes a truck seem elegant
PA23 – simply awful in turbulence, it kept wanting to fly backwards
Wirraway – in the circuit I have the feeling that it wants to kill me
Like Chimbu (amongst others), I’ve enjoyed every aeroplane I’ve ever flown, assuredly though some much more than others! So how do you determine which you prefer most? Surely it’s not just the aircraft’s qualities, but also the individuals’ situation/lifestyle at the time?
For example, amongst my favourites ranks the F.27. Apart from its feeling of immense strength, in reality it had few great qualities. Sorry, Saabsforever, in itself it was NOT “wonderful to fly”. In addition, the Ansett operation involved the vagaries of flying to Tasmania in the winter, lots of NDB and circling approaches, often in a “black hole” environment. Yet it was my first airline command, and I loved every minute of it.
Old but not bold nominates the DC-9, but was it, as he states, “a true pilot’s aeroplane”?? I thought the handling quite ordinary, you were very much aware of flying servo tabs, you didn’t fly it so much as simply point it. And yet it had a lovely well laid out (by the standards of the day) and superbly quiet cockpit, wonderful automatic systems that should have made Boeing blush and, point to point, it was quick. Everyone on it (including me) loved it!
Wawa Zone names the Pitts. Hmm, in my humble opinion it’s a perfect vehicle for aerobatics but not a particularly “nice” aeroplane.
18 Wheeler mentions the “Classic” B747. Amongst the downsides was a noisy and poorly air-conditioned flight deck. Who can forget a max weight departure – questionable longitudinal stability, a 5 knot margin between max structural speed for your existing flap setting and minimum manoeuvring speed for the next selection, and you had a bank angle restriction between F5 and F1 – all this from memory, no poofy speed tape or smart flight director here. In theory I should have preferred the B744; much better avionics, an EICAS, plus superior handling and it was far easier to land – yet it simply went too far. With my employer you only flew long haul plus a regional trip every six months (your line check) and, as a captain, I averaged two landings per month. I liked it not! To me, the “Classic” will forever be the Queen of the Skies, and again I loved every minute.
So maybe you could add degree of challenge in promoting an aircraft into the “most liked” column? Enough rambling!
Flown:
Beech 18/23/33/35/36/55/58/65/80/90/95.
Cessna 150/172/175/180/182/205/206/210/310/320/337/402
Chipmunk, DH.82, Dove
Piper PA18/22/23/24/28/30
Pitts S2
Victa 100/115, CT-4
Wirraway, Winjeel, Harvard
Lear 45
F.27, DC-4/Carvair
B727, B737, B747, B744, B777, DC-9
Loved Most:
Chipmunk – fabulous handling, it simply oozes character
B777 – easy to run out of superlatives here, what an airliner should be, it always made even me look good
DC-9 – the quietest cockpit ever, a very slick machine
F.27 – a true character-building aeroplane
Liked least:
Cessna 205 – lousy handling & performance, makes a truck seem elegant
PA23 – simply awful in turbulence, it kept wanting to fly backwards
Wirraway – in the circuit I have the feeling that it wants to kill me
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
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Love - DH82, Stearman, PA18, Pawnee (tug towing), DC3, Maule Rocket.
Would love - Spitfire Mk IX, P51 Mustang, DH Mozzie.
Would cream in pants - SR71, Lockheed U2, Space Shuttle, Concorde
Hate - Airbus A320.
Loathe - S/E Cessnas.
Absolutely detest - clapped out C402Bs
Despise to the point of violence - GAF Nomad
Would love - Spitfire Mk IX, P51 Mustang, DH Mozzie.
Would cream in pants - SR71, Lockheed U2, Space Shuttle, Concorde
Hate - Airbus A320.
Loathe - S/E Cessnas.
Absolutely detest - clapped out C402Bs
Despise to the point of violence - GAF Nomad
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P51 Mustang,
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Slasher, I like to read your posts, you seem pretty knowledgeable usually, but you disappointed me with your comment re the Nomad. Drinking the coolaid again? If you really think that way, you obviously were never taught how to fly it properly. It has nice performance, can take you places not many other airplanes can take you with 12 passengers, handles an engine failure better than most light twins, is fast and pleasantly balanced. On the negative side it is noisy and the engine gear boxes are prone to failure, but unless you own one you would not be bothered by this.
All airplanes have their positive and negative qualities, so do people, so it must be something pretty extreme for you to rate a particular airplane so low.
I only have 600 hours on the N22 but rate it highly and would be happy to fly one again. I seriously cannot see why there is so much antagonism against the airplane unless it is driven by politics or the tall-poppy syndrome, which Australians suffer from so much. Maybe that is a virus, unless you are an Aussie too?
I am also interested in why you hate the A320. I never flew one, but from what I am told by those that do, it is much-loved. Did you fly it? Why do you not like it?
All airplanes have their positive and negative qualities, so do people, so it must be something pretty extreme for you to rate a particular airplane so low.
I only have 600 hours on the N22 but rate it highly and would be happy to fly one again. I seriously cannot see why there is so much antagonism against the airplane unless it is driven by politics or the tall-poppy syndrome, which Australians suffer from so much. Maybe that is a virus, unless you are an Aussie too?
I am also interested in why you hate the A320. I never flew one, but from what I am told by those that do, it is much-loved. Did you fly it? Why do you not like it?