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Old 26th Jul 2009, 11:02   #1 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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CPL Air Law Questions

G'Day guys.

I've been completing some Air Law practice exams recently and have run into a few situations where I don't agree with the supplied answer. I wanted to run it past some people before my exam on Tuesday, to work out if I'm going nuts or not.

There's a few questions, so please bear with me.

Question 1
Single pilot charter.
Day 1 completes 7 hr flight time, 9 hr duty time.
Day 2 completes 8.5 hr flight time, 10 hr duty time.
Minimum rest required after pilot finishes work at 2030 on day 2 is:
A 13 Hours.
B 14 Hours.

Question 2
Ayres Rock aerodrome is a:
A CTAF
B CTAF(R)

Question 3
"In the vicinity" of a non-towered aerodrome is:
A 20nm
B 10nm

Question 4
You get ramp checked, don't have a medical certificate with you. It must be supplied to CASA within:
A 7 Working Days days at a place specified by CASA
B 7 Days at a place specified by CASA

Question 5
At 0600 a pilot starts reserve time at home. Called in for duty at 1500 the same day. Latest time to finish duty is:
A 0700 the next day
B 0500 the next day

Question 6
The CoG must be checked to be within the specified limits of:
A AUW and ZFW
B AUW and landing weight

All the questions come from a commercially available set of exams I purchased. All of the above questions I got the answer of B, while the supplied answer was A. I'd be interested to see if anyone else agrees, and if necessary I can point out the reference to ERSA, AIP, CAR or CAO.
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 13:28   #2 (permalink)
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Question 3
"In the vicinity" of a non-towered aerodrome is:
A 20nm
B 10nm

Question 6
The CoG must be checked to be within the specified limits of:
A AUW and ZFW
B AUW and landing weight


From the comfort of my lounge room chair I can tell you that Question 3 is most deff answer B!! I read it recently. But dont have a ref to hand.
Question 6 - I would have said answer A. But then i guess some aircraft use fuel as ballast. so B makes sense
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 22:40   #3 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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My reference for question 6 is CAR 235
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legi...3.htm#param197

Many references to gross weight and landing weight, no mention of zero fuel weight.
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 23:21   #4 (permalink)
PlankBlender
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fish, you might get more specific answers if you post why you think your answers are correct..

..not sure if trying to get specifics on multiple choice questions will get you much joy here, though, you know the old saying 'ask three pilots get four answers'

In the past, I've rocked up at my school with tricky questions I couldn't get my head around, and it was usually the CFI or one of the other senior instructors who was able to enlighten me!

Good luck, if you know your way around the books and have done lots of questions, you should have plenty of time to go to the text for the few really hairy questions!
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 23:34   #5 (permalink)
D-J
 
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Quote:
(9) The pilot in command must ensure that the load of an aircraft throughout a flight shall be so distributed that the centre of gravity of the aircraft falls within the limitations specified in its certificate of airworthiness or its flight manual
what does the AFM say?
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 23:52   #6 (permalink)
 
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If you're in flight and the aircraft is at ZFW and not in balance what is your bigger problem? The fact you're outside the envelope or the fact you have no fuel? Therein lies your answer.
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Old 26th Jul 2009, 23:56   #7 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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Well alright.

Lets look at the two duty time questions.

Question 5
At 0600 a pilot starts reserve time at home. Called in for duty at 1500 the same day. Latest time to finish duty is:
A 0700 the next day
B 0500 the next day

CAO 48 says in the general conditions that reserve time followed by a tour of duty can not exceed 23 hours. In the example above, A is 25 hours, B is 23 hours. Supposedly A is correct.

Question 1
Single pilot charter.
Day 1 completes 7 hr flight time, 9 hr duty time.
Day 2 completes 8.5 hr flight time, 10 hr duty time.
Minimum rest required after pilot finishes work at 2030 on day 2 is:

Pilot gets 2 hours extra rest because of the exceeded flight time. Take 10 hours rest between 10pm-6am plus the 1.5hrs between 2030 and 2200, and another 0.5 to make up the 2 hours, makes it 12 hours.

Other possibility depending on rest time between day 1 and day 2 is the pilot gets a 12 hour rest because of insufficient rest period between day 1 and day 2, plus the extra 2 hours, makes it 14 hours. I still can't come up with an answer of 13 hours...

Last edited by tmpffisch; 27th Jul 2009 at 01:08.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 00:01   #8 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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Quote:
If you're in flight and the aircraft is at ZFW and not in balance what is your bigger problem? The fact you're outside the envelope or the fact you have no fuel? Therein lies your answer.
I know in flight planning you check max takeoff weight, max landing weight and zero fuel weight (or at least ZFW and max takeoff weight, as landing weight's CoG will fit between the two), however where is that mentioned in the CAR, if at all? A quick search of the CAR online finds no mention of the word 'zero'.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 00:53   #9 (permalink)
 
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checking your CoG using AUW and ZFW will ensure that at all stages of flight your aircraft will remain within CoG limits. Using landing weight and AUW assumes that you will land at the specified weight, what happens if there are unforseen conditions in flight that cause you to have less fuel onboard and your landing weight is different from your calculated weight, whats to say your CoG is now outside the limits? using ZFW and AUW for the CoG calculations is the safest option.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 01:01   #10 (permalink)
 
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You can however use fuel as ballast. Using ZFW for your calculations removes that as an option.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 03:01   #11 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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AussieNick, you're absolutely correct. If maximum takeoff weight and zero fuel weight are both within CG, maximum landing weight will be within limits too.

But I can't find the reference in the regulations that says that zero fuel weight is required to be checked, only maximum landing weight (CAR 235). It is highly likely that the POH/AFM would say to check the zero fuel weight, but that's not in question here.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 03:12   #12 (permalink)
 
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Does the exam author provide any working or reasoning as to how they came to the answers provided?
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 03:16   #13 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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The PM, no, they don't. I have emailed them and expecting to hear some feedback about the answers at some point, but doubt that'll happen within the next few days.

I think some of the answers provided are purely incorrect (not bad for a $33 exam), such as Ayres Rock, 'in the vicinity' and the ramp check, but the duty time questions do interest me as it's certain those will be in the CASA exam.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 03:29   #14 (permalink)
 
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the odd typo I could understand, it happens.....but providing wrong answers and no working/ reasoning/references...man......ask for your money back!!!!

be very interested to see what they get back to you with!
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 08:09   #15 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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The answers for questions 2, 3 and 4 were confirmed incorrect by the author today.

For question #1, they said they still believed it was 13 hours, not 14, however my latest working came out at 12 hours. I think I'll just take my chances on the exam.
(Pilot gets 2 hours extra rest because of the exceeded flight time. Take 10 hours rest between 10pm-6am plus the 1.5hrs between 2030 and 2200, and another 0.5 to make up the 2 hours, makes it 12 hours.)

No mention on how in question #5 someone can be on reserve at home and then a tour of duty for a total of 25 hours.
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Old 27th Jul 2009, 23:59   #16 (permalink)
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checking your CoG using AUW and ZFW will ensure that at all stages of flight your aircraft will remain within CoG limits.

Presuming that the non-fuel loading elements remain unchanged,

(a) if the fuel arm is constant (typical bugsmasher unswept plank wing) and the relevant forward/aft limits is/are constant (or only contract with increasing weight), this should be true

(b) if the fuel arm is variable (applies to most larger aircraft) and/or the forward/aft limits expand with weight **, you cannot rely on a simple TOW/ZFW check of CG to satisfy the requirement to stay within the envelope as fuel burns off. You would need to plot a number of points, according to the shape of the fuel line and the envelope limit lines, to satisfy the requirement.

It is not at all uncommon for an aircraft, starting with a loaded CG near to a limit, to have the fuel line move outside, and then back into, the envelope as you burn off fuel.

For a well designed loading system the designer will (should) have taken care of this problem for you such that the pilot stuff remains straightforward .. you can either just use the end point calculations (with the problems being "hidden" within the system) or there will be one or more specific limitations for you to observe to manage the loading problem.

A case of another trap for young players, I guess ... and not generally well understood by the piloting fraternity .. which is why I bore PPRuNe folk with weight and balance stuff from time to time.

So far as the Regulator is concerned, I can recall a Vic/Tas airworthiness requirement put out by Gary S years ago wherein he dictated a check at gross and ZFW as being the mandate for Weight Control Officers in designing and approving Loading Systems.

I argued against that but, in the end, lost the toss. Some discussions with Gary I won, some I lost .. the way such things go. A good lad, though, and still beavering away in aviation in retirement.

** by this I mean that the forward limit moves more forward with increasing weight and/or the aft limit moves more aft with increasing weight.
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Old 28th Jul 2009, 02:28   #17 (permalink)
 
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hey tmpffisch, PM me your email and i'll send you a doc that i was given when I was having problems with Flight and Duty. it now sits in my kneeboard. really easy to understand and works for practically all F&D questions you will get.
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Old 28th Jul 2009, 05:01   #18 (permalink)
tmpffisch
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Thanks AussieNick, will do

I did my exam today for 95%, which will do....the two questions I did get wrong didn't relate to flight & duty limitations, I wish I could remember what they did relate to so I could find what I missed.

If you do have any suggestion however how one could be on reserve at home and then do a tour of duty for a total of 25 hours, please let me know.

john_tullamarine, thanks for clearing that up. Some of the other posts I've seen of yours have been brilliant, I always take notice whenever you post something.
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Old 28th Jul 2009, 05:58   #19 (permalink)
 
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If you're using fuel as ballast then ZFW is still ZFW - it's just a different ZFW. One that is a bit heavier than normal. Fuel used as ballast can't be planned as useable fuel. As far as W&B and Endurance is concerned ballast fuel may as well be bricks with an SG of .71 occupying space in the fuel tank that normally would be burnable fuel.

Duty time problems can have more than one independent rest periods. You need to use the most limiting. For example, think of a case where there is a rest period based on *duty* time, and a rest period based on *flight* time and a rest period based on finishing late. Even though duty time hasn't been extended, flight time has been and it was into a late finish with an option for duty length the next day. The rest period due to duty is 'x'. Rest period due to flight time is 'x+an additive'. Rest period due to finishing late is 'x + something if the following day is shortened' *OR* 'x + something else' if the following day is not shortened.

You need to work through each option that the F&D time limits gives you and choose the most limiting. Bear in mind that they're not usually additive in the sense that you exceed two or more limits so you think you must combine all extra rest additives.
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Old 28th Jul 2009, 09:10   #20 (permalink)
 
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First of all, congratulations on getting 95% for Air Law. Air Law is actually one of my best subjects for both CPL and ATPL in terms of scoring (probably because they are open book exams) although I don't find them interesting to study for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmpffisch View Post
The answers for questions 2, 3 and 4 were confirmed incorrect by the author today.
This is really unacceptable for a commercial product that you have paid for. I hope you let them know this.
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