ZGZ Chieftain report released
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ZGZ Chieftain report released
Hot off the press from 2 days ago.
200606530
Reasonably experienced pilot with "safety" pilot next to him.
The finger looks to be pointed somewhat towards the auto pilot or control failure of some kind.
200606530
Reasonably experienced pilot with "safety" pilot next to him.
The finger looks to be pointed somewhat towards the auto pilot or control failure of some kind.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 29th Jan 2009 at 00:37.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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A few pretty big hills around that part of the world from memory. not one of my favorite places to do a let down. 
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The dark and very likely cloudy conditions that existed in the area where the aircraft suddenly diverged from its flight path meant that recovery to normal flight could only have been achieved by sole reference to the aircraft's flight instruments. The difficulty associated with such a task when the aircraft was in a steep descent was likely to have been significant.
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I would have thought the right engine problems warrented a little further analysis??
And the fuel situation isn't explored much at all. 2 test flights and numerous ground runs would suck a fair % out of 305 litres, you'd need about 300 litres at take off to arrive with FR intact. No mention of fuel quantity prior to refuelling. Even if it had about 130 litres (FR) prior to 305 added, there is still a small margin for error there, and with a level change and weather to contend with, mixtures may have been rich for quite some time in the cruise. I realise there was a fire, but can anyone explain what makes a fire significant, and how they can tell if plenty of fuel was there or it isn't just aircraft components burning?
Maybe an outboard went dry, autopilot holding roll input, pilot disconnect AP, engine surges back online...roll/yaw follows??
Am I being too harsh, or does anyone else expect a little more from a report than simply stating what happened?
And the fuel situation isn't explored much at all. 2 test flights and numerous ground runs would suck a fair % out of 305 litres, you'd need about 300 litres at take off to arrive with FR intact. No mention of fuel quantity prior to refuelling. Even if it had about 130 litres (FR) prior to 305 added, there is still a small margin for error there, and with a level change and weather to contend with, mixtures may have been rich for quite some time in the cruise. I realise there was a fire, but can anyone explain what makes a fire significant, and how they can tell if plenty of fuel was there or it isn't just aircraft components burning?
Maybe an outboard went dry, autopilot holding roll input, pilot disconnect AP, engine surges back online...roll/yaw follows??
Am I being too harsh, or does anyone else expect a little more from a report than simply stating what happened?
Strim,
As I'm sure you're aware, the role of the ATSB is to report the facts only, and not to speculate. Therefore, it would be wrong of them to put anything like that in the report.
morno
As I'm sure you're aware, the role of the ATSB is to report the facts only, and not to speculate. Therefore, it would be wrong of them to put anything like that in the report.
morno
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Morno, isn't my quote from the report exactly that, speculation?
Good point HH, perhaps it shouldn't be in there then, 
.
Strim, agreed. It is sad that we will never know exactly what happened. Probably another of the sadest accidents that I can think of in recent times where there doesn't seem to be any answers what so ever, is the Baron (rego escapes me) that went in near McArthur River Mine a few years ago.
I am yet to read the entire report, but I was most disappointed, but yet not surprised to see this from CASA, "CASA believes that the safety regulator's focus should be on passenger carrying operations". So does that mean that they don't give a stuff about anyone other than Airlines and Charter operators?
morno
.Strim, agreed. It is sad that we will never know exactly what happened. Probably another of the sadest accidents that I can think of in recent times where there doesn't seem to be any answers what so ever, is the Baron (rego escapes me) that went in near McArthur River Mine a few years ago.
I am yet to read the entire report, but I was most disappointed, but yet not surprised to see this from CASA, "CASA believes that the safety regulator's focus should be on passenger carrying operations". So does that mean that they don't give a stuff about anyone other than Airlines and Charter operators?
morno
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Whilst we are speculating, I'd be interested to know whether it was a consistent turn to the left and a consistent spiral dive based on what they have of radar paints.
A gentle spiral dive, ending in a fast one, doesn't sound at all like a loss of control, but more like incapacitation, but they attempted to cover that with the comments on the passenger being as good as qualified for the purposes of identifying a spiral dive as such and being able to fly this aircraft.
I would like to know more about the recorded track as you'd think that with a loss of control due to autopilot of control jamming that there would be erratic altitude and headings recorded and not just a gradual left turn or whatever the report said.
I also don't understand why they didn't call center, given that they were in close contact with them by the sounds of it. That doesn't make sense. Pilot incapacitation would be a culprit, but surely the passenger would have called for assistance? It's not making much sense unless they somehow all became incapacitated.
Surely and I say that surely they would have noticed they were descending into a spiral dive if the auto pilot came off?
A gentle spiral dive, ending in a fast one, doesn't sound at all like a loss of control, but more like incapacitation, but they attempted to cover that with the comments on the passenger being as good as qualified for the purposes of identifying a spiral dive as such and being able to fly this aircraft.
I would like to know more about the recorded track as you'd think that with a loss of control due to autopilot of control jamming that there would be erratic altitude and headings recorded and not just a gradual left turn or whatever the report said.
I also don't understand why they didn't call center, given that they were in close contact with them by the sounds of it. That doesn't make sense. Pilot incapacitation would be a culprit, but surely the passenger would have called for assistance? It's not making much sense unless they somehow all became incapacitated.
Surely and I say that surely they would have noticed they were descending into a spiral dive if the auto pilot came off?
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What Lessons?
Hello All,
Ok FTD.
For those just on the way up, who one could argue need all the lessons we can get.
What are the 'real facts and what did happen' and more importantly what are these lessons of which you speak ? O learned one.
Cheers,
Solocmv
Ok FTD.
For those just on the way up, who one could argue need all the lessons we can get.
What are the 'real facts and what did happen' and more importantly what are these lessons of which you speak ? O learned one.
Cheers,
Solocmv
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Sorry for speculating, however I don't have the years behind me or the local knowledge so I'm not in a position to know the behind-the-scenes facts.... 
After a re-read a few things stand out regarding non-mechanical issues. Enough said from me.
After a re-read a few things stand out regarding non-mechanical issues. Enough said from me.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 29th Jan 2009 at 09:38.
