Private Instrument Rating

[karrank]

I (think I) understand the basics of this, PIR is IFR, just can't go under the LSALT. I take this to mean you can go IFR enroute, but not do instrument approaches.

My question is how do I as an ATC recognise you? I don't see anything in MATS or AIP about this and have recieved no education at work on how to do so, or what services you require.

Is there a RMK/PIR or something in the FPL, like the old SP/IFR or just an ommision of the PER/?

What happens when a PIR is instructed to make an approach and he/she says "No thanks"?

We base hazard alerting on the IFR altn mnm on the approach plates or VFR, but LSALT could be way above both, and we may not even know what LSALT you are working to. What should we use?

[Hydrolix]

Not Quite.
From what I understand, you have things on your PIFR license called FPA's, or Flight Procedure Authorizations. These can range and you must be tested on each to actually be able to use them. These are SID's, STAR's, ILS's, DME/GPS Arrivals, NDB/VOR NPA's, GPS NPA's and the use of navaids and GPS for enroute navigation. So this would entitle you to fly under the LSALT for the purpose of approach. However, you can only use this in a private operation, ie no charter/RPT etc, that would require a CIR.

Hope that clears it up.

Cheers

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Here is the link to the relevant CAO

http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/CAO40/400203.pdf

It appears it would be an easy way of keeping a CIR by reverting to a PIFR with all FPAs then only require an AFR every two years to keep rating valid.

karrank the bit you were looking at is covered in section4.1 To get the PIFR you would have to hold a PPL(A) as a minimum. Pass a PIFR flight test and passed either a VOR or NDB FPA requirements and other requirements as per CAO 40.5 So I think any holder of a PIFR would have the NDB or VOR FPA as a minimum so should be able to go below LSALT with relation to those aids.

I hope this is right because I am hoping to get this rating after getting a CIR then revert back to PIFR

regards

Mark

(edit section address to eliminate confusion)

[karrank]

Marvellous, there is no cause for alarm.

Its nice to now that the strange feeling that events are out to get me is perfectly normal paranoia

[Mainframe]

Karrank

No problems for you on this one. The PIFR is an instrument rating.

The pilot is considered competent to operate under the IFR.

The flight plan is your clue to what you can expect of the pilot.

In the Navaids section, as with all flight plans, only those aids for which the pilot is endorsed and has current experience on, may be listed.

So if the pilot lists "ILS" then you can set the pilot up for an ILS.

The departures scenario is not so clear cut, the pilot must hold a "FPA" for flying a SID, you can't tell if the pilot is qualified from the flt plan details submitted.

So, don't know how you get him away, but the flt plan indicates how you can get him in.

A basic PIFR allows enroute operation in IMC.

A basic PIFR may not have many FPA's attached, it's up to the pilot to correctly list on the submitted flight plan the appropriate aids that he is entitled to use.

Cheer up though, a significant number of CPL / ATPL holders with Command Instrument ratings also hold a PIFR, you can probably, by your own experience, tell if the pilot knows what he's doing or is inexperienced or even bluffing.

[Hornet_26]

What if I had a PIFR and no FPA's. I am endorsed to use NDB's and VOR's Enroute so I circle the appropriate letter on the flightplan. Now how does the controller know how I can approach the airport? Or dont they circle them if they dont have an associated FPA?

I have a CIR so doesnt really affect me, just interested to know.

Cheers

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Hornet_26 The way it reads in the CAO you will have at least a VOR or NDB FPA with your PIFR

http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/CAO40/400203.pdf section 5.2

[Jamair]

NEGATIVE GHOST RIDER; you don't need any FPAs. I got a PIFR before I did the CIR and while you CAN do everything in a PIFR that you do in a CIR, you don't HAVE to. The minimum is the simple En-Route, which allows you to climb (in VMC) to the LSALT, then IMC as required remaining above LSALT using whatever nav aids you are endorsed on within or without the PIFR (such as GPS, NDB & VOR that you qualified on for NVFR for example), observing all the normal IFR requirements for enroute and destination nav aids, alternates and visibility; then decending to VMC or LSALT or under positive radar control to radar LSALT. If the dest wx is IMC below LSALT, you gotta go to the alternate which must have a forecast of VMC at or above LSALT.

In fact, the way it is laid out, each and every PIFR FPA involves a separate flt test, so by the time you've done the basic En-Route flt test, + NDB, + VOR, + Holding, + DGA, + SID, + STAR, + GPS NPA, + ILS /LLZ...you could have paid for the full CIR anyway.

That said, the PIFR is useful in the right circumstances- despite the naysayers who pooo-pooed it before it was introduced (check the letters to the ed in the Oz Av Mags ), there has not been a sudden flurry of PIFR pilots smacking into cumulo-gratite since people started using it.

[QSK?]

CAAP 5.13(0)

karrank:

CAAP 5.13(0) Private IFR Rating, Section 11 (particularly sections 11.5 to 11.8), covers the information you are seeking.

Basically, it is the PIFR pilot's responsibility to inform ATC if unable or unqualified to conduct a specific approach or undertake an instruction imposed by ATC.

[Hornet_26]

Thanks QSK? you have answered my question with that too

cheers

[karrank]

Now I'm worried again, Jamair thanx a lot...

Seriously, when I'm assessing whether weather is a hazard alert PIFR's will fall through the net.