Help! Moving to USA
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6 years ago I came to the US as a Green Card Holder. This is my experience.
FO salaries are low compared to what we are used to in the ME, Africa, EU or China.
Here is the big thing. Besides some major immigration hurdles AFTER arriving in the US (like Social Security numbers, drivers, renting) you are going to run into problems as a direct entry captain. So instead of me trying to type out a manuscript, please call me. I have answers and suggestions because it is all so painfully fresh to me. I will PM you with my contact numbers.
FO salaries are low compared to what we are used to in the ME, Africa, EU or China.
Here is the big thing. Besides some major immigration hurdles AFTER arriving in the US (like Social Security numbers, drivers, renting) you are going to run into problems as a direct entry captain. So instead of me trying to type out a manuscript, please call me. I have answers and suggestions because it is all so painfully fresh to me. I will PM you with my contact numbers.
any information from you guys will be very helpful , and appreciated.
SkyGod
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I am first generation immigrant from Europe and work for a legacy.
No degree but bought one on the internet to satisfy that requirement.
During the interview I told the HR lady my degree was not from an accredited school but based on life experience. She checked the box and moved on.
Total cost for the degree was $800.
Had tons of time and type ratings however, perhaps that made up for lack of formal schooling, not sure.
I do know for sure however that I could not go to school for 4 years, would probably go nuts.
After elementary school in the old country I joined the Merchant Marine and sailed around the world on big ships. Spent my money on booze, girls and motorcycles. Started driving cabs at age 20 and saved money for flight school in the US. After flight school I ended up in Alaska flying bush.
No time for college or university.
No degree but bought one on the internet to satisfy that requirement.
During the interview I told the HR lady my degree was not from an accredited school but based on life experience. She checked the box and moved on.
Total cost for the degree was $800.
Had tons of time and type ratings however, perhaps that made up for lack of formal schooling, not sure.
I do know for sure however that I could not go to school for 4 years, would probably go nuts.
After elementary school in the old country I joined the Merchant Marine and sailed around the world on big ships. Spent my money on booze, girls and motorcycles. Started driving cabs at age 20 and saved money for flight school in the US. After flight school I ended up in Alaska flying bush.
No time for college or university.
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Excellent! 
I am first generation immigrant from Europe and work for a legacy.
No degree but bought one on the internet to satisfy that requirement.
During the interview I told the HR lady my degree was not from an accredited school but based on life experience. She checked the box and moved on.
Total cost for the degree was $800.
Had tons of time and type ratings however, perhaps that made up for lack of formal schooling, not sure.
I do know for sure however that I could not go to school for 4 years, would probably go nuts.
After elementary school in the old country I joined the Merchant Marine and sailed around the world on big ships. Spent my money on booze, girls and motorcycles. Started driving cabs at age 20 and saved money for flight school in the US. After flight school I ended up in Alaska flying bush.
No time for college or university.
No degree but bought one on the internet to satisfy that requirement.
During the interview I told the HR lady my degree was not from an accredited school but based on life experience. She checked the box and moved on.
Total cost for the degree was $800.
Had tons of time and type ratings however, perhaps that made up for lack of formal schooling, not sure.
I do know for sure however that I could not go to school for 4 years, would probably go nuts.
After elementary school in the old country I joined the Merchant Marine and sailed around the world on big ships. Spent my money on booze, girls and motorcycles. Started driving cabs at age 20 and saved money for flight school in the US. After flight school I ended up in Alaska flying bush.
No time for college or university.
TowerDog,
Glad it all worked out for you.
Just to add a little bit of info for our green-card-holding compatriots eyeing a legacy spot where a degree is absolutely required, the equivalency of a non-US degree might be evaluated by a service dealing with such matters.
I know DL does this...don't know about any others. I can't remember the name of the company.
Getting a legacy spot can be a tough hill to climb these days.
Glad it all worked out for you.
Just to add a little bit of info for our green-card-holding compatriots eyeing a legacy spot where a degree is absolutely required, the equivalency of a non-US degree might be evaluated by a service dealing with such matters.
I know DL does this...don't know about any others. I can't remember the name of the company.
Getting a legacy spot can be a tough hill to climb these days.
TowerDog,
Glad it all worked out for you.
Just to add a little bit of info for our green-card-holding compatriots eyeing a legacy spot where a degree is absolutely required, the equivalency of a non-US degree might be evaluated by a service dealing with such matters.
I know DL does this...don't know about any others. I can't remember the name of the company.
Getting a legacy spot can be a tough hill to climb these days.
Glad it all worked out for you.
Just to add a little bit of info for our green-card-holding compatriots eyeing a legacy spot where a degree is absolutely required, the equivalency of a non-US degree might be evaluated by a service dealing with such matters.
I know DL does this...don't know about any others. I can't remember the name of the company.
Getting a legacy spot can be a tough hill to climb these days.
Yes, it sounds like that's the case and I'm glad to see it.
DL, however, has no formal, guaranteed "flow" arrangement with its wholly-owned, Endeavor. They have a "guaranteed" interview via some LOA that came with NWA, IIUC.
I'd have to dig up a contract and read...which I'm too lazy to do. I see nothing currently being said about an actual flow like AA has with its wholly-owneds. I'm happy to be corrected from a documented source.
If one tracks the reports on RST about the "Endeavor-only" interview days in Hapeville, they hire surprisingly few of the "guaranteed" interviewees compared to street urchins. I doubt it's a reflection on the interviewees but rather DL avoiding depleting staff at a wholly-owned which CEO, Ed Bastion, is on record as saying he has NO intention of folding into mainline.
If DL were wise, they'd have a formal flow. Who ever thought one would say DL should be more like AA ?
P.S. The above doesn't account for the relative handful hired under the ill fated E2D program. Not sure what the disposition of those folks is/will be.
P.P.S. OK...I found a flicker of motivation and looked at the PWA and found LOA #9 involving Compass Airlines mentioning what sounds like a guaranteed flow up under some specified conditions. I started reading and saw the number of "WHEREFOREs and WHEREASs"...and suddenly ran out of motivation again. It's a fleeting thing these days.
Someone will come along shortly to explain how/if this is even being implemented. Neither the Compass nor Trans States website mentions a guaranteed flow to DL. You'd expect to see them shouting that deal from the rooftops if it were still in effect.
Zondaracer ?
http://www.compassairline.com/careers/pages/pilots.aspx
http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/pilots.aspx
Last edited by bafanguy; 26th Nov 2017 at 18:37. Reason: Add stuff
havick,
Yes, it sounds like that's the case and I'm glad to see it.
DL, however, has no formal, guaranteed "flow" arrangement with its wholly-owned, Endeavor. They have a "guaranteed" interview via some LOA that came with NWA, IIUC.
I'd have to dig up a contract and read...which I'm too lazy to do. I see nothing currently being said about an actual flow like AA has with its wholly-owneds. I'm happy to be corrected from a documented source.
If one tracks the reports on RST about the "Endeavor-only" interview days in Hapeville, they hire surprisingly few of the "guaranteed" interviewees compared to street urchins. I doubt it's a reflection on the interviewees but rather DL avoiding depleting staff at a wholly-owned which CEO, Ed Bastion, is on record as saying he has NO intention of folding into mainline.
If DL were wise, they'd have a formal flow. Who ever thought one would say DL should be more like AA ?
P.S. The above doesn't account for the relative handful hired under the ill fated E2D program. Not sure what the disposition of those folks is/will be.
P.P.S. OK...I found a flicker of motivation and looked at the PWA and found LOA #9 involving Compass Airlines mentioning what sounds like a guaranteed flow up under some specified conditions. I started reading and saw the number of "WHEREFOREs and WHEREASs"...and suddenly ran out of motivation again. It's a fleeting thing these days.
Someone will come along shortly to explain how/if this is even being implemented. Neither the Compass nor Trans States website mentions a guaranteed flow to DL. You'd expect to see them shouting that deal from the rooftops if it were still in effect.
Zondaracer ?
http://www.compassairline.com/careers/pages/pilots.aspx
http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/pilots.aspx
Yes, it sounds like that's the case and I'm glad to see it.
DL, however, has no formal, guaranteed "flow" arrangement with its wholly-owned, Endeavor. They have a "guaranteed" interview via some LOA that came with NWA, IIUC.
I'd have to dig up a contract and read...which I'm too lazy to do. I see nothing currently being said about an actual flow like AA has with its wholly-owneds. I'm happy to be corrected from a documented source.
If one tracks the reports on RST about the "Endeavor-only" interview days in Hapeville, they hire surprisingly few of the "guaranteed" interviewees compared to street urchins. I doubt it's a reflection on the interviewees but rather DL avoiding depleting staff at a wholly-owned which CEO, Ed Bastion, is on record as saying he has NO intention of folding into mainline.
If DL were wise, they'd have a formal flow. Who ever thought one would say DL should be more like AA ?
P.S. The above doesn't account for the relative handful hired under the ill fated E2D program. Not sure what the disposition of those folks is/will be.
P.P.S. OK...I found a flicker of motivation and looked at the PWA and found LOA #9 involving Compass Airlines mentioning what sounds like a guaranteed flow up under some specified conditions. I started reading and saw the number of "WHEREFOREs and WHEREASs"...and suddenly ran out of motivation again. It's a fleeting thing these days.
Someone will come along shortly to explain how/if this is even being implemented. Neither the Compass nor Trans States website mentions a guaranteed flow to DL. You'd expect to see them shouting that deal from the rooftops if it were still in effect.
Zondaracer ?
http://www.compassairline.com/careers/pages/pilots.aspx
http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/pilots.aspx
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
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No doubt a legacy is the Holly Grail of flying jobs in the US, especially now with us gray beards retirering in droves.
That being said I was happier and had more fun at lesser outfits, Evergreen and Tower Air. Comes to mind.
Also flew for Tradewinds while on furlough from AA and got hired DEC on the 747-200.
(It is doable in the US if a company is desperate enough for experienced guys.
Also been DEC on DC-3s and Twin-Otters in the US (Virgin Islands).
With non-sked outfits and freight dog carriers one can move up the seniority list faster, and many smaller carriers are not as anal with training and chicken-sh!t as the majors.
One of my buddies got hired as an MD-80 Captain for a charter outfit in MIA 2 years ago:
Today he is a check airman and the most senior pilot on the property. (Yes, not many benefits, but with some overtime on days off and seniority to pick your flights and days off, he is doing ok.)
That being said I was happier and had more fun at lesser outfits, Evergreen and Tower Air. Comes to mind.
Also flew for Tradewinds while on furlough from AA and got hired DEC on the 747-200.
(It is doable in the US if a company is desperate enough for experienced guys.
Also been DEC on DC-3s and Twin-Otters in the US (Virgin Islands).
With non-sked outfits and freight dog carriers one can move up the seniority list faster, and many smaller carriers are not as anal with training and chicken-sh!t as the majors.
One of my buddies got hired as an MD-80 Captain for a charter outfit in MIA 2 years ago:
Today he is a check airman and the most senior pilot on the property. (Yes, not many benefits, but with some overtime on days off and seniority to pick your flights and days off, he is doing ok.)
No doubt a legacy is the Holly Grail of flying jobs in the US, especially now with us gray beards retirering in droves.
That being said I was happier and had more fun at lesser outfits, Evergreen and Tower Air. Comes to mind.
Also flew for Tradewinds while on furlough from AA and got hired DEC on the 747-200.
(It is doable in the US if a company is desperate enough for experienced guys.
Also been DEC on DC-3s and Twin-Otters in the US (Virgin Islands).
With non-sked outfits and freight dog carriers one can move up the seniority list faster, and many smaller carriers are not as anal with training and chicken-sh!t as the majors.
One of my buddies got hired as an MD-80 Captain for a charter outfit in MIA 2 years ago:
Today he is a check airman and the most senior pilot on the property. (Yes, not many benefits, but with some overtime on days off and seniority to pick your flights and days off, he is doing ok.)
That being said I was happier and had more fun at lesser outfits, Evergreen and Tower Air. Comes to mind.
Also flew for Tradewinds while on furlough from AA and got hired DEC on the 747-200.
(It is doable in the US if a company is desperate enough for experienced guys.
Also been DEC on DC-3s and Twin-Otters in the US (Virgin Islands).
With non-sked outfits and freight dog carriers one can move up the seniority list faster, and many smaller carriers are not as anal with training and chicken-sh!t as the majors.
One of my buddies got hired as an MD-80 Captain for a charter outfit in MIA 2 years ago:
Today he is a check airman and the most senior pilot on the property. (Yes, not many benefits, but with some overtime on days off and seniority to pick your flights and days off, he is doing ok.)
I would goto Kalitta tomorrow being that I live within an hour drive from JFK however they require citizenship. By then time my citizenship comes through in approx 18-24 months from now I will probably be close to flowing to AA.
SkyGod
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Those other carriers you mentioned earlier are good options but a lot of them have DoD contracts which requires a security clearance, you can only get a security clearance with citizenship.
I would goto Kalitta tomorrow being that I live within an hour drive from JFK however they require citizenship. By then time my citizenship comes through in approx 18-24 months from now I will probably be close to flowing to AA.
I would goto Kalitta tomorrow being that I live within an hour drive from JFK however they require citizenship. By then time my citizenship comes through in approx 18-24 months from now I will probably be close to flowing to AA.
I got my my citizen ship in 1995 because it was “recommended”. (Spook speak for required)
I still flew the Desert Shield Ops for the DOD for Evergreen on a green card, even got security briefings from the US Army intelligence. My country of citizenship was a NATO member and my background check came in clean.
Not a big risk to have me fly FO to Dhahran while Saddam was shooting scuds up our areses.
Maybe different now but don’t turn yourself down. Apply anyway.
As for the college degree:
Before 1978 the airlines required no degree. Instead they gave you an IQ Test.
The IQ tests were outlawed about that time, discrimination.
Then the airlines went looking for college graduates, as an average college graduate had a higher IQ than a non graduate.
Problem solved, but for pilots who spent more time flying than going to school it became a problem: the politically correct recruiting departments had to check that box.
( Chuck Yeager did not have a college degree and he did just fine.)
Some of us got a away with no degree, your mileage may vary.
TowerDog,
Glad it all worked out for you.
Just to add a little bit of info for our green-card-holding compatriots eyeing a legacy spot where a degree is absolutely required, the equivalency of a non-US degree might be evaluated by a service dealing with such matters.
I know DL does this...don't know about any others. I can't remember the name of the company.
Getting a legacy spot can be a tough hill to climb these days.
Glad it all worked out for you.
Just to add a little bit of info for our green-card-holding compatriots eyeing a legacy spot where a degree is absolutely required, the equivalency of a non-US degree might be evaluated by a service dealing with such matters.
I know DL does this...don't know about any others. I can't remember the name of the company.
Getting a legacy spot can be a tough hill to climb these days.
SkyGod
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My Aussie Masters degree was evaluated as equivalent to a regional university in the States ( by DALs own preferred law firm). Delta HR gave me the shakedown at a job fair as largely being unworthy due to my foreign education and flight experience. YMMV. US citizen and ATP.
security clearance
"I’ve been told that Kalitta requires citizenship in order to gain a security clearance for their DoD contracts"
As a green card holder and British national I was treated as a "US person" for security purposes. I worked at a defense contractor's site on a military program without being a citizen and had the same access as a US citizen.
I have no doubt that there are security clearances that would require US citizenship but not all do.
As a green card holder and British national I was treated as a "US person" for security purposes. I worked at a defense contractor's site on a military program without being a citizen and had the same access as a US citizen.
I have no doubt that there are security clearances that would require US citizenship but not all do.
Guaranteed flow through to a major?
How long have you been in this business !
Nothing is guaranteed ever.
When they tell you it is, they are lying.
Why would they lie?
To keep you in your place.
Now lets assume you get a regional job at a flow through to just one carrier.
Lets say your upgrade takes three years, and your lucky number takes another four.
Then that's been seven of waiting in a job you out grew many years before.
Do you turn down a job offer with a decent major like Southwest, JetBlue or Alaska?
Now you really do have all your eggs in one basket.
Now let's consider all the things that can, and do go wrong with that plan.
1/ Your company falls out of favor by the FAA.
2/ Your company falls out with the parent company.
3/ The parent company decides to close your airline or consolidate them.
4/ The parent company closes your hub
5/ A bidding war erupts between the regionals. First you take a pay cut, and then get downgraded.
6/ The parent company stops hiring.
7/ The parent company furloughs, and their people flow back on top of you.
Maybe you can think of a hundred and one more things that can and will happen.
Or you could do what I would.
Get a ATP and some airline training and experience and then move on.
I would rather spend my time at a supplemental carrier than a regional.
I think things will happen faster, you'll have more fun and make more money doing so.
How long have you been in this business !
Nothing is guaranteed ever.
When they tell you it is, they are lying.
Why would they lie?
To keep you in your place.
Now lets assume you get a regional job at a flow through to just one carrier.
Lets say your upgrade takes three years, and your lucky number takes another four.
Then that's been seven of waiting in a job you out grew many years before.
Do you turn down a job offer with a decent major like Southwest, JetBlue or Alaska?
Now you really do have all your eggs in one basket.
Now let's consider all the things that can, and do go wrong with that plan.
1/ Your company falls out of favor by the FAA.
2/ Your company falls out with the parent company.
3/ The parent company decides to close your airline or consolidate them.
4/ The parent company closes your hub
5/ A bidding war erupts between the regionals. First you take a pay cut, and then get downgraded.
6/ The parent company stops hiring.
7/ The parent company furloughs, and their people flow back on top of you.
Maybe you can think of a hundred and one more things that can and will happen.
Or you could do what I would.
Get a ATP and some airline training and experience and then move on.
I would rather spend my time at a supplemental carrier than a regional.
I think things will happen faster, you'll have more fun and make more money doing so.
Wholly owned with a flow is great insurance. Of course everyone is also looking elsewhere other than where the flow leads. Sure is a nice insurance plan though compared to being at Skywest or wherever that have been there 15+ years not getting calls by majors at all.
Lots of guys leaving for other legacy gigs outside of the flow, those that aren’t are within 12 months of flowing
Don't worry about Kalitta, let Connie be Connie and do what ever they want too.
I too was a green card holder and British national, and was rejected by them.
Too many fish in the sea, to worry about one.
Sky Lease and National have 74s, and are looking for people.
I too was a green card holder and British national, and was rejected by them.
Too many fish in the sea, to worry about one.
Sky Lease and National have 74s, and are looking for people.
And they take green card holders.
And they’re in the same business as Kalitta.
SkyGod
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Nah, stay away from Skylease.
They have been on the verge of the abyss several times recently.
Furloughs, re-calls, no pay checks, no money for fuel, parked planes, etc.
The. After hurricane Irma they got a boost flying relief to San Juan.
Bottom feeder, but quick upgrades and heavy time if you got nothing else going on, just don’t get married, don’t make kids and don’t take up too many mortgages
(
They have been on the verge of the abyss several times recently.
Furloughs, re-calls, no pay checks, no money for fuel, parked planes, etc.
The. After hurricane Irma they got a boost flying relief to San Juan.
Bottom feeder, but quick upgrades and heavy time if you got nothing else going on, just don’t get married, don’t make kids and don’t take up too many mortgages
(
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You might wish to consider one of the bottom feeder A320 operators such Jetblue. I’ve been told they’ve taken guys from Cebu Pacific, PAL, Avianca and the likes. Might be something to consider until you can get a degree and go to a reputable airline.
Best of luck to you
Best of luck to you
I can do without the No Sn*t Sherlock, Captain obvious comment.
A claim was made. I made a rebuttal.
No, a flow through is not great insurance, when it’s a false insurance designed to lure you into a false sense of security. Just like the advertisement that uses the phrase ‘peace of mind’. You know you’ve been had.
A friend went to Horizon many years ago, and became comfortable. Too comfortable, and he stayed. Oh he talked about going to Alaska, but never seemed to do much about getting there.
Now if he had realized the hard truths of the of the regional business, and picked the worst one with the fastest upgrade. Then every day he’d be scrambling to get out.
A crappy company is a great motivator for upward mobility.
You plan your next move whilst your in ground school, and you make it happen.
You only have yourself to blame of it doesn’t.
For these are the best times I’ve ever known.
If your still at Skywest after 15 years, your not trying.
You can’t just send stuff out and wait for a call.
You have to work the phones and pound the pavement too.
I used to have a rule, that every day I had to do something to better my lot in life.
You know what? It worked.
A claim was made. I made a rebuttal.
No, a flow through is not great insurance, when it’s a false insurance designed to lure you into a false sense of security. Just like the advertisement that uses the phrase ‘peace of mind’. You know you’ve been had.
A friend went to Horizon many years ago, and became comfortable. Too comfortable, and he stayed. Oh he talked about going to Alaska, but never seemed to do much about getting there.
Now if he had realized the hard truths of the of the regional business, and picked the worst one with the fastest upgrade. Then every day he’d be scrambling to get out.
A crappy company is a great motivator for upward mobility.
You plan your next move whilst your in ground school, and you make it happen.
You only have yourself to blame of it doesn’t.
For these are the best times I’ve ever known.
If your still at Skywest after 15 years, your not trying.
You can’t just send stuff out and wait for a call.
You have to work the phones and pound the pavement too.
I used to have a rule, that every day I had to do something to better my lot in life.
You know what? It worked.
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I agree with everything you’re saying and I’m doing exactly that myself. But to say the flow is useless is a false statement, say that to the guys currently flowing now that never got a call that have the right resume, did all the job fairs, networked, no skeletons etc. we have jumpseaters all the time from companies without flow through that time and time again say they wish they went to a wholly owned with a flow.
I'm sure they wish that, even though they have no way of knowing when (or if) they would have flowed had they been with said regional.
To me, these "flows" really benefit largely only those pilots who would have had little to no chance of going to the relevant mainline operator in the absence of such an arrangement. At the same time, it actually (in my opinion) handicaps those pilots who could have got in on merit, because they have to wait for their number to come up. In the meantime, the world can flip twenty (or more) times.