PPRuNe Forums


North America Still the busiest region for commercial aviation.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st Jan 2017, 15:28   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: usa
Posts: 10
The grass is always greener for a New Hire pilot at SWA.

This is a revolving door because they are giving out Type Ratings for free. That is a bad idea. Why are they doing this? Just stop the PIC type rating.

As for leaving. New hires have no idea about the money you can make here. I get it that they are at the bottom of the list. They can move up quicker somewhere else. But the 2 year upgrade at certain places is really 5 years if you want to be off reserve quick as a Captain.

As a 50% to 70% on the FO list depending on base I am pulling in 250k now. I commute and don't live in base. Average last year was 130 to 140 trips per month. This year will probably be 140 to 150 trips per month. And the guys living in base can do 180 to 200 trips per month easy. I was looking at a senior FO here who I always see on the open time bids and for SEP OCT and NOV that are "slow months" and he was doing 220 trips per month.

So if Delta and United don't hire a guy he would be nuts not to try this place out. And with our Financials job security is much better here than anywhere else. We are third in someways and first in many others.

As for international I am enjoying the near international a lot. I would have liked to check the box for far international and maybe do it for about a year. Not a fan of big circadian rhythm changes. Most of my legacy friends that are senior fly domestic. More flexibility in schedules and overtime.

So for the new hire the grass is still always greener. With only so many interview oportunities in the business jumping around and wasting your network burning bridges to get yourself interviews for the best job might leave you a regional job in the end if you are not careful.

However, the industry has not been this good in a along time. With a real pilot shortage the ball is in the employee's court.

Enjoy these times, but don't burn too many bridges in this business.
JT12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 09:55   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,325
JT12345,

Interesting. I've heard bits & pieces to the effect of what you describe. In terms of bases, to your knowledge, what's the most senior and how many years does it take to hold it ? I'll guess ATL...and many years ? The info I've got is old but was that the plug in ATL was about 12 years seniority.

And the most junior ? Commuting is the same ordeal as any airline ?

Is SWA seeing significant numbers of junior FOs leaving ? I do know that at least some people also leave UAL, AA and DL early on when they're able to work where they can get a base more to their liking. But there aren't significant numbers of people doing that, IIUC.

Commuting for many years is a tough thing.

Thanks.

Last edited by bafanguy; 2nd Jan 2017 at 10:26.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 15:11   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,597
121.436 says that ALL pilots in 121 ops are required to hold a type rating. So every airline is required to "give out" type ratings.
MarkerInbound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jan 2017, 03:27   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 54
Posts: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkerInbound View Post
121.436 says that ALL pilots in 121 ops are required to hold a type rating. So every airline is required to "give out" type ratings.
True. Pretty much puts an end to the "stop handing out Type ratings" silliness. Sort of a bizarre notion anyway that someone would go to work for SW merely to acquire a type rating....

Anyway ... I haven't really been paying attention for a while, but it used to be that Southwest required applicants to already possess a 737 type rating as a prerequisite to being hired. Apparently that is no longer the case?
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jan 2017, 04:16   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 35
Posts: 1,305
No longer the case at Southwest.
zondaracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jan 2017, 20:05   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,597
It used to be you had to have the type to even interview. Several 142 schools made their living cranking out 737 types for SW wannabes. Then, I don't know, 6-8 years ago (time flys when you get old), they dropped the requirement for the interview but if you got the job offer you had 6 months to get the type before you showed up for class. Then a couple years back they totally dropped the requirement and started issuing the type in house. Lots of speculation if holding the type already puts you ahead in the interview process but I haven't seen hard numbers of what percentage of recent SW new hires already have the type.
MarkerInbound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Jan 2017, 21:26   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,325
"...but I haven't seen hard numbers of what percentage of recent SW new hires already have the type."

MarkerInbound,

I'd hope that percentage is ZERO !!!

I'd still like to know what the SWA new hire attrition is these days.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jan 2017, 02:05   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 54
Posts: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
"...but I haven't seen hard numbers of what percentage of recent SW new hires already have the type."

MarkerInbound,

I'd hope that percentage is ZERO !!!

I'd still like to know what the SWA new hire attrition is these days.
Why zero? I woukd asume that SWA gets applicatuons from pilots at other 737 operators and ex AF guys who flew the VC/T-whatever it is, and have a 737 type. Seems like they should be eligible for hire, no?
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jan 2017, 02:47   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 908
SWA is good money and a pretty good company to work for..., no doubt!

But is it really that much of a surprise that some pilots would prefer not to spend the rest of their careers flying a 73 in a quasi "regional" network?

After 10 years in one type you do get bored...., simple as that!
The Dominican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jan 2017, 11:00   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,325
"Why zero?"


A X A,

Yes, people are floating around the job market with 737 ratings.

Sloppy language on my part. What I meant to say is that I hope people aren't buying type ratings. This subject is much debated...and I can see the case for both sides of the discussion. I remain philosophically opposed to professional aviators paying for training that should come from the employer. That's just my opinion; agreement is neither expected nor required.

SWA began its life sending people to 737 school and picking up the tab. When the pilot turnover was not to their liking, they got their nose outta joint and saw that people would pay for their own rating (one way or another) and went with that until recently when they dropped the requirement to get/have the rating. This move is perhaps a sign of the times although I haven't seen any reliable data on SWA's ability to attract/retain new hires so I can't say for sure why the change in policy.

They don't have the giant percentage of mandatory retirements UAL, AA and DL have with attendant seat progression so that may influence a part of the job-hunting pilot market...I can't say for sure but it's a plausible notion.

A huge airline with more options in terms of equipment and routes may appeal to many vs decades on one airplane in an essentially domestic operation but it's an individual choice. And I'm all for CHOICES...including one to cast one's career lot with SWA.

A reasonable choice is lifestyle with a respectable income from an employer that at least has a pretense of respect for its employees.

Last edited by bafanguy; 4th Jan 2017 at 13:09.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Jan 2017, 14:44   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 1,800
"Most of my legacy friends that are senior fly domestic. More flexibility in schedules and overtime."


You need more friends. If w/b international is an option it goes more senior.
2500 n/b CA's. If you're #1000 in the company you'd be top 2% on n/b domestic. W/B long haul? You'd be 78%.
If you're #2000 you'd be top 9% n/b domestic. W/b long haul? You're too junior to bid it.


The #1 n/b domestic Captain would be at the 37% mark on w/b international.


The guys flying the trips knows what works for them. Pay, time off, ease of work. W/b international goes more senior. Of course there are exceptions and outliers.
misd-agin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Jan 2017, 15:00   #12 (permalink)

SkyGod
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,368
Quote:
. doing 220 trips per month.
WTF?
What is your definition of a "trip"?
Is a trip a flight, or do you guys have some weird internal magic converting 110 pay hours into a "trip"?
Doubt anybody in their right mind can legally fly 220 "trips" in a calendar month
TowerDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Jan 2017, 17:22   #13 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Correction. SWA gives a PIC Type Rating
JT12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Jan 2017, 17:31   #14 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: usa
Posts: 10
This month I am doing 175/13.
Last month I did 165/11.
Relatively slow months.
I probably average last year 130-140/14-15.
This year working the system probably 150/14.


I will let you all think about what these numbers mean for a bit.


I get it why a quick upgrade and moving quickly up the list is important, but I commute on these numbers and am around 60% from the top of the FO list in my base. If I lived in base probably 170 to 180 a month.


A senior FO living in base I just looked at did 220 trips average a month with 9 to 14 days off from September to December which is relatively slow months. Why the upgrade is delayed by many here at SWA.
JT12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Jan 2017, 17:47   #15 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Some use 12%. Some use 14%. We are paid on trips. I.E. $145 a trip hour (SWA trip hour pay scale per contract) coverts to around $171/hr a credit hour compared to other airlines. So 220 trip hours x $145 trip pay or 187 credit hours x $171 credit pay.
JT12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Jan 2017, 02:24   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,597
SW has an "interesting" pay system basing everything on a DAL-HOU "trip." So PHX-HOU might pay 3.5 "trips."
MarkerInbound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Feb 2017, 02:12   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Denver,Co USA
Age: 70
Posts: 302
I'm guessing the OP must not be in the US since most US carriers don't care about types, but in Europe they do.
Rick777 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Feb 2017, 21:49   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,325
SW has an "interesting" pay system basing everything on a DAL-HOU "trip."

MarkerInbound,

Yep, that rings a bell. I recall they paid $X based on a "trip" of 50 minutes block time (DAL-HOU-SAT). But, they only paid $X if that 50 minute trip took 50 minutes...or 2 hours. Not sure where it went from there as the years passed. Still a great company. I've followed and applauded their success over the decades.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Feb 2017, 17:49   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Hi there, interested in SW, just moved to the USA and have a 737 type rating on my FAA ATP. I don't currently see an opening to apply on the SW website, just the pilot apps webpage that says make sure you will out an application on the SW website.

TT is 6300 , part 121 time over 2000 , 3000 jet

PS - yes I can work in the states but not been here long, 2 months
iaveight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:38.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1