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North America Still the busiest region for commercial aviation.

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Old 10th Jan 2017, 15:56   #41 (permalink)
 
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INN Flight says about me. "Usually said by people who have never worked outside their own, precious country. Enjoy your bubble."

I am English. I started my career as an apprentice aircraft mechanic with British Airways in the 1970s . I had a PPL in the UK before being laid off in the early 1980s. I came to America and got my mechanic, pilot and flight engineer license. My first job was as flight engineer/mechanic in the Middle East on an executive 727. After many years of trying, I was able to get a green card for the US. I worked as mechanic on cargo DC-8s for Emery/Burlington and flew cargo Lear Jets. Finally I was able to get a flight engineer job on the cargo 727s which turned into a co-pilot job at Emery. I was then hired as a green card holder by a major US airline where I spent the better part of 28 years flying international.

I am eternally grateful to The United States of America for allowing me the privilege of being a part of this great country. And to my airline for allowing me and my family to have the best career and life possible.

Now INN Flight. What do you think of them apples?

Last edited by button push ignored; 12th Jan 2017 at 18:06.
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 21:51   #42 (permalink)
 
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pbi,

You said: "And to my airline for allowing me and my family to have the best career and life possible."

I think you answered UAL777's subjective question: "So who is really better off in the end?"

Lots of ways to skin this cat. :-))
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 13:45   #43 (permalink)
 
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A Brit asking about apples? I think the slang conversion course is complete!
Cheers mate. ;-)
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 15:43   #44 (permalink)
 
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The United States has been awful good too me and for me. Here there was a logical progression from one license to the next. Anything was attainable with determination and money, which was attainable with dedication and hard work. Upward mobility was encouraged. Yes, there was a bad recession in the early 1980s in the US with very high interest rates, but there was always optimism. Call it the American spirit.

Whilst in England it was more a set a walls put in front of you, designed to slow down or stop your progress. Unless to went to one of the top two schools of CSE Kiddlington or Hamble you would not get a direct entry pilot job. And at a cost of 60,000 Pounds it may have well be a Million Quid for it was so unattainable. There was a 'boot strap' method, but a Commercial required 700 hours. I saw many flight instructors wasting the best years of their life looking up at 300' overcast.

It was like you were type cast at birth, and climbing the social ladder was forbidden.
Whilst England was gripped in the three day work week, miners strikes, peace marches and IRA attacks. The spirit of the people were broken. I had never felt so pessimistic about my future. I remember being a motorcycle dispatch rider in London one very cold and wet day in February crying my eyes out in a phone booth I was so lonely and depressed.

I'll use an example of a friend of mine. From Enfield, North London. Did very well in school. Very hansom and personable. Wanted to be a doctor. Went to interviews for medical school. When asked what his father did for a living, they were mortified when he replied that he drove a lorry for J.Sainsbury's. How dare a working class lad wish to enter his profession. He started crying uncontrollably on the train ride home at the thought of being a teacher for the rest of his life, which was his second choice. He now runs a very successful medical practice in the US.

Another example. Lad from Bristol wanted to be a RAF pilot. He went to Biggin Hill for the selection process. Did very well, but there were so many people for so few slots, that he didn't quite make it. On the way home he thought that is father was born in the US to British parents, but never really lived there. He applied to the USAF as a pilot and was accepted. He was a C-5 Galaxy commander before joining our airline.
And then there's me, a story that still amazes me. For only I know how truly mediocre I really am.

Misd-agin: Sorry old chap, don't understand your banter. I don't talk with a New York accent or use their slang. I get asked about three times a week where I'm from and have to do my best Robin Leech impersonation. He is a South London hoodlum who did very well over here with a TV show. I get a kick every time I watch CBNBC and see Stuart Varney on the TV. A Cockney clippie (bus conductor) who now runs a TV show about money. Reminds me of Reg Varney from 'On The Busses'.
Bafanguy: Who's really better off in the end? The person who truly loves aviation and spends his life doing what he loves. But there is something in the constitution of the US about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that rings true to me.

To the original poster of this thread, who wanted to know if you could go straight to the US Majors from Europe. I would say that even the US Minors are better than Europe. Jet Blue and Alaska are first class operations. Spirit and Frontier are still better than EasyJet and German Wings. Allegiant is better than RyanAir.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 16:56   #45 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
Some of the guys posting here are over excited about airlines like United. Yes, it's a good company to work for but its very comparable to any large airline anywhere around the world, nothing special. Pay ranges from $85 hour as a new hire all the way up to $328 hour for senior widebody captains who have been here 25 years minimum. To be a 777 captain at UAL, one must be on property a minimum of 25-30 years. It's not like Qatar or Emirates where you become a 777 captain in 5 years. Annual salary is hourly rate times 1000 hours roughly and there is per diem and a b fund in which UAL contributes 16 percent. That's all you get. UAL 777/747/787 captains take home around the same amount net of taxes as a Qatar 777/787 captain. The only difference is that the UAL captain is 60 years old while the Qatar captain is in his/her 30's.. So who is really better off in the end?

Strange United hired you even though you expressed the views above and in your other posts during your United interview...

You most certainly are free to quit United (and I strongly encourage you to broaden your aviation horizon) and take a position with Qatar or Emirates, two airlines you seem to admire more than United.

That would make you happier, United happier, and open a position for a pilot who actually wants to fly for United.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 20:19   #46 (permalink)
 
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My airline has hired several Emirates B-777 Captains recently. The way I see it is, when they got in trouble with cash flow they borrowed money from the Qatar government. Emirates was now a slave to the lender who required better crew utilization. The company cracked the whip on the employees. It is now 1000 hours a year. Your days off are now your vacation days. A friend was commercialing thru Dubai and saw a Captain have a melt down in the terminal a quit on the spot.
And as for Air Dubai. I understand it's 24/7/365.
Would I go there? Yes for a certain period of time. It's my belief that the US majors have such a disdain for these carriers, that it's a perfect way to get hired by them.
United is probably the worst of the BIG THREE, as American seems to now have it together and Delta has always been the cream of the crop. But United against Middle East carriers. Oh come on!
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 22:12   #47 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
The way I see it is, when they got in trouble with cash flow they borrowed money from the Qatar government.
Any source for that? I know that Abu Dhabi bailed out Dubai during the financial crisis, but Qatar?
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 00:13   #48 (permalink)
 
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I came from a discussion at work, as to why so many American ex-pats were leaving the Middle East and returning. After about seven years of seeing 'the usual suspects' being hired, there were suddenly a large number from Emirates/Etihad/Qatar. Which lead people to ask 'why'.
The theory goes that they were too ambitious in ordering new planes that they could not afford. This lead then to need a equity loan at less than savory terms.
Any source for that? No, just what I was told. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on in the aviation world. I look forward to flying with them to find out what it's like out there. But since your ExDubai, why don't you tell us your opinion on the big three in the Gulf.
As for UAL777 desire to be a B-777 captain in your mid 30s. Perfect, just what we're looking for. Come fly for us. Be happy to have you.
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 02:20   #49 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
Don't know what you mean by not true. Most junior 777 CA at UAL has 25 years in the company. If you mean the 757/767 fleet, even that's 20 years for left seat. Even then you will be a reserve captain and most likely paid only monthly guarantee of 73 hours pay and per diem if you fly. Another thing I don't understand is the older employees being a positive thing in your opinion. I can understand cockpit crew being older probably means more experienced but how is having grandmas in the back working as cabin crew a positive thing? Anyhow to each his own but there are plenty of airlines around the world that offer equal or better terms and conditions in the big picture.
Hired in 2013, no college degree and this terrible attitude you seem to have about UAL? What a terrible mistake they made in hiring you. You sound a lot like some the FO's I have had recently that have been here very little time and complain more than as if they were 35 year flight attendants. I would highly recommend you looking for other employment as you are not going to be happy at UAL. Of course with those qualifications you quoted you most likely could not get a job anywhere else. So I have to wonder......do you fit into one of the special hiring catergories?
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 04:58   #50 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
United still hires people without a 4 year degree although it's only a few. I was lucky I got hired without one in 2013
Ual777 ...was your dad a 787 captain from Cal and you interviewed at Houston and not TK at Denver ?

That will explain the no degree
For the record : United hired 1987 pilots since 2/13 and 4 only had no degree...and they were special cases.... you must be one of the 4
Congratulations!!
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Old 16th Jan 2017, 05:24   #51 (permalink)
 
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Don't know what some of you are upset about. I'm just stating facts here. Personally, I love it at United so I won't be leaving to go anywhere. I interviewed in Denver and I assure you that we have hired more than 4 pilots without a 4 year degree/ no college at all.. Also, I'm not connected at UAL in any way, shape or form. I simply applied, interviewed and got hired on my own merit. All of you are free to do the same. However, What United loved about me was the fact that I flew for Qatar Airways. It was a huge factor in my success in getting hired at UAL. The legacy carriers respect time spent at an airline like Qatar or Emirates.
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Old 17th Jan 2017, 00:48   #52 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
Don't know what some of you are upset about. I'm just stating facts here. Personally, I love it at United so I won't be leaving to go anywhere. I interviewed in Denver and I assure you that we have hired more than 4 pilots without a 4 year degree/ no college at all.. Also, I'm not connected at UAL in any way, shape or form. I simply applied, interviewed and got hired on my own merit. All of you are free to do the same. However, What United loved about me was the fact that I flew for Qatar Airways. It was a huge factor in my success in getting hired at UAL. The legacy carriers respect time spent at an airline like Qatar or Emirates.
Oh - you were interviewed in Denver - you say it as if interviews were going on somewhere else for the past four years. UAL777, you need to get UAL's history right. You are a post merger (not even a constructive notice pilot) post ISL, post UPA new hire.

"They" loved your Qatar experience - really? On this forum, you pontificate as if you have some insight into United's hired process because you were hired. Reality check UAL777, you know nothing about United's hiring process, absolutely, positively, nothing. What you know is: you. got. hired.

How exactly do you know that because you flew for Qatar it had any influence on you being hired at my airline? All that "command" experience you demonstrated there? Oh because someone said it in your interview - Dude - you need a reality check. And exactly how do you know that United has hired more than 4 pilots without four year degrees or nor college at all? You don't, I know you don't. Even you can't be that big of a goober and believe what hiring information UAL puts out (which if you do, shows what a newbie you are....)

I submit you "know" none of the things you say you know, you are not "just stating facts" because unlike you, I know what I am talking about, and if you want to continue this nonsense, I most certainly will to its logical conclusion.

Last edited by CaptainMongo; 17th Jan 2017 at 01:35.
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Old 17th Jan 2017, 04:07   #53 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAL777 View Post
Don't know what some of you are upset about. I'm just stating facts here. Personally, I love it at United so I won't be leaving to go anywhere. I interviewed in Denver and I assure you that we have hired more than 4 pilots without a 4 year degree/ no college at all.. Also, I'm not connected at UAL in any way, shape or form. I simply applied, interviewed and got hired on my own merit. All of you are free to do the same. However, What United loved about me was the fact that I flew for Qatar Airways. It was a huge factor in my success in getting hired at UAL. The legacy carriers respect time spent at an airline like Qatar or Emirates.
You are such a liar... I highly doubt you are even a United employee...

If you got hired at 13 you did interview at Houston by Continental people and Charlie Vs people,

Because United Interviews and process did not start at TK in Denver till mid 2014

Go away .......



PS the 4 without college degree was an ALPA statistic during their job fair helping all ALPA members from the Regionals
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Old 17th Jan 2017, 04:50   #54 (permalink)
 
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For your information, Charlie Venema Also held interviews in Denver. Get your facts straight!
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Old 17th Jan 2017, 22:35   #55 (permalink)
 
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UAL777,

I have no interest in picking a fight with anyone particularly where career choices are concerned since it's rather personal. I do, however, try to understand how it all works...and ask questions because my perspective is a bit limited.

In post #10, you said, "I got hired with United from Qatar Airways..." and then went on to represent Qatar as the equal (or better) of the US legacies as a career choice:

"Some of the guys posting here are over excited about airlines like United. Yes, it's a good company to work for but its very comparable to any large airline anywhere around the world, [NOTHING SPECIAL]."

Do you see Qatar or any ME carrier as a "comparable" place where a young pilot of Western origin would go expecting to remain in an alien culture for several decades ending with a ride into the sunset with sufficient pension intact ?

I got the impression that's what you meant to say...35 y/o ME WB captain as a better choice vs 50+ y/o US legacy WB captain...

You left Qatar.

I know two people who have flown for Qatar. One left and one wants to. Hardly statistically-significant data but information nonetheless (I'll disregard all the publicity Qatar [and other ME carriers] has gotten on the management-employee front due to "cultural" differences).

Careers are marathons, not sprints. And obviously, no guarantees apply; they obviously don't with the US legacies. I can document that. But, it's a roll of the dice with the choice of where to roll them being the critical factor for the best chance of success long term.

I'm curious how any ME carrier is a better or even equal choice for a young Western person choosing a long term career path.

I'd suggest you've grabbed the brass ring by flying for UAL. Some day we all wake up 65 years old and all is revealed. ;-)))

And it's then too late to repair any damage attributable to the choices of a younger self .

Last edited by bafanguy; 18th Jan 2017 at 10:49.
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 01:47   #56 (permalink)
 
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Well, last year UAL777 posted this:
Quote:
Stay away from Qatar Airways. Horrible place to work with third world loser pilots..Emirates has issues also. The airline from Abu Dhabi is the best choice..I have worked for Qatar and the airline from Abu Dhabi. The airline from Abu Dhabi is a great place to work...There is nothing good about QR...nothing..
What's it like working for Qatar Airways?
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Old 18th Jan 2017, 09:55   #57 (permalink)
 
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I can't say I didn't expect all these replies following my post to the young man. His attitude and characterizations towards his colleagues ("grandmas") are not helping.

So my advice (if you want to succeed to this airline) is this: Be humble, open your eyes, talk little and listen a lot. If you work and interact with others in the same way that you color your writing here, it will be very hard for you to succeed. United (and any other legacy or major airline) is not a place where relatively young people, low on seniority, can show such attitude. For better or worse, this is not the United Arab Emirates.

In the legacies we have the seniority system. So you'll wait, like everyone else, to grab that left seat you so desire. If you ever fly to HKG, NRT or FRA and I happen to bump into you during your check-ride, I'd be happy to go over the rules with you.
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Old 20th Jan 2017, 22:00   #58 (permalink)
 
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"I was wondering what was the probability of directly entering a US Major from an european airline."

Flykri,

So I assume you got your question answered ? :-))))
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