US Regional Headhunting
Thread Starter
" Unless the FAA/DOT raise pilot salaries and benefits, there will never be a free flowing pilot supply..."
striker26,
The government does NOT control pilot salaries & benefits...nor should they.
As for a government or quasi-governmental national pilot "academy", I have a friend working with his congressman on the beginnings of just such a program, a la the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. The initial phase deals with accommodating the fresh-CPL-to-1500 hr-Part 121 issue (without dealing yet with how the CPL was obtained...if you're not familiar with AABI, Google and read about one way it's currently done) with a national academy being the eventual goal. He's got a remarkably clever idea.
Unfortunately, involving government in a private sector issue pretty much dooms it but the idea has gotten at least a small notice despite congressional attention deficit disorder. If the idea is taken up, in exchange for his hard work and insightful thoughts, the politicos will steal my friend's idea and kick him promptly to the curb of history.
The US has pilots falling out of its ears...just not an issue. The lower links of the food chain are merely under temporary stress.
striker26,
The government does NOT control pilot salaries & benefits...nor should they.
As for a government or quasi-governmental national pilot "academy", I have a friend working with his congressman on the beginnings of just such a program, a la the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. The initial phase deals with accommodating the fresh-CPL-to-1500 hr-Part 121 issue (without dealing yet with how the CPL was obtained...if you're not familiar with AABI, Google and read about one way it's currently done) with a national academy being the eventual goal. He's got a remarkably clever idea.
Unfortunately, involving government in a private sector issue pretty much dooms it but the idea has gotten at least a small notice despite congressional attention deficit disorder. If the idea is taken up, in exchange for his hard work and insightful thoughts, the politicos will steal my friend's idea and kick him promptly to the curb of history.
The US has pilots falling out of its ears...just not an issue. The lower links of the food chain are merely under temporary stress.
Last edited by bafanguy; 22nd Jul 2016 at 16:05.
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@sulphuric acid:
An airline will not sponsor you for a visa, nor can you sponsor yourself.
You will either have to marry a US Citizen, apply for a green card through the diversity lottery, or enter the US under a refugee status. If you are a celebrity or professional athlete, you may be able to get a visa as well, and there are a couple of other visas but generally speaking, you won't get a work visa to be an airline pilot in the US.
An airline will not sponsor you for a visa, nor can you sponsor yourself.
You will either have to marry a US Citizen, apply for a green card through the diversity lottery, or enter the US under a refugee status. If you are a celebrity or professional athlete, you may be able to get a visa as well, and there are a couple of other visas but generally speaking, you won't get a work visa to be an airline pilot in the US.
Thread Starter
"HR departments at FedEx, SWA, UAL and DAL are all worried about the lack of new recruits. "
atpcliff,
Delta isn't...I can assure you of that...bet the rent money. The others I can't be sure of.
atpcliff,
Delta isn't...I can assure you of that...bet the rent money. The others I can't be sure of.
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My significant other is a pilot, holds a Commercial pilot's certificate with multi engine and instrument ratings, and an instructor certificate. She is not employed as a pilot nor seeking to be. However recently, she has received mailings from two US regionals, inviting her to apply. (Sky West and Express Jet) The latest, from Express Jet was addressed to Ms XXXX YYYYYYY or current resident
I guess times are tough when you don't offer decent compensation.
I guess times are tough when you don't offer decent compensation.
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Commutair and Trans States Airines have also been sending out cards in the the mail as well. Trans States was offering $50 Amazon cards for showing up to an interview. I have also received cards from several part 135 companies.
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The first company to send out unsolicited cards for pilots was Great Lakes, back in 2014. Then the other companies followed. I never got the card from SkyWest, because I'm already on the payroll, but I got the one from Expressjet. Then the rest followed.
Thread Starter
As long as Great Lakes stays in operation, no other regional has a valid excuse for failure. GL has to at least get some credit for fighting the valiant fight.
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The pinch the regionals find themselves in is due to the collapse of the general aviation segment of the industry. The majors will never be in a position of shortage, despite the hand wringing and teeth nashing of some.
For decades the regionals (and commuters before them) benefited from the large and diverse general aviation industry to supply both inexpensive (relatively) training and a steady supply of willing aviators.
While GA in the US has been in steady, but slow decline since the early 80's, it was after 9/11 that it took it's most precipitous decline. Business insurance went into orbit, and while personal insurance crept back down, business insurance for anything even remotely to do with aviation stayed high at every segment of the business chain. This has a compounding effect through to the end user.
Also in the mid 1990's, you had scads of people who were still in the aviation business "for the love of it". You might laugh, but these types of operators often had a personal, vested interest in the business, and as a result, their prices were often only marginally above the break even point. By the 2000's these folks started to retire en masse, and either they closed up shop, or sold to a corporate entity that was far more interested in profit (not necessarily a bad thing), that drove up costs beyond the historical norm.
Up until the mid-1990s, you could go zero-to-hero (Commerical SEL/MEL, Instrument, CFI/II/MEI) in the US for about $15k USD...including a few months room and board. Adjusted for inflation that's about 22k today. But the actual price today is 3-4 times that amount.
Sure people will talk about product liability, but that's been with us since the early 1970s. Fuel costs don't help, but in the big picture, and inflation adjusted, 100LL is around historical norms with only blips here and there.
But there have been a few ugly confluences to really drive the stake in...the Great Recession of the late 2000's and the nasty run-up in fuel costs at the same time was bad. Lots of folks getting old and timing out of flying on the GA side. The collapse in GA aircraft price bubble in 2007 frustrated a lot of people who had money in their airplanes, and they pushed their planes into the back of the hangar and padlocked the door. The high costs and low aircraft value now makes upgrading an older airplane a seriously cost-negative situation, only doable by those truly dedicated to the cause.
The regional airline segment built their entire business model around a supply chain that no longer exists. I seriously doubt that any government funded or supported model can replace what existed up until 10 years go. It just isn't going to happen.
Throw in a societal/generation shift away from aviation interest and/or the airline lifestyle (if you can call it that), and your going to come up empty. Any solution, whether it's raising pay to attract what's left, or shifting flying to the majors, is going to cost big bucks, and, as typical, the airlines will seek to shift that cost to anyone else.
Nu
For decades the regionals (and commuters before them) benefited from the large and diverse general aviation industry to supply both inexpensive (relatively) training and a steady supply of willing aviators.
While GA in the US has been in steady, but slow decline since the early 80's, it was after 9/11 that it took it's most precipitous decline. Business insurance went into orbit, and while personal insurance crept back down, business insurance for anything even remotely to do with aviation stayed high at every segment of the business chain. This has a compounding effect through to the end user.
Also in the mid 1990's, you had scads of people who were still in the aviation business "for the love of it". You might laugh, but these types of operators often had a personal, vested interest in the business, and as a result, their prices were often only marginally above the break even point. By the 2000's these folks started to retire en masse, and either they closed up shop, or sold to a corporate entity that was far more interested in profit (not necessarily a bad thing), that drove up costs beyond the historical norm.
Up until the mid-1990s, you could go zero-to-hero (Commerical SEL/MEL, Instrument, CFI/II/MEI) in the US for about $15k USD...including a few months room and board. Adjusted for inflation that's about 22k today. But the actual price today is 3-4 times that amount.
Sure people will talk about product liability, but that's been with us since the early 1970s. Fuel costs don't help, but in the big picture, and inflation adjusted, 100LL is around historical norms with only blips here and there.
But there have been a few ugly confluences to really drive the stake in...the Great Recession of the late 2000's and the nasty run-up in fuel costs at the same time was bad. Lots of folks getting old and timing out of flying on the GA side. The collapse in GA aircraft price bubble in 2007 frustrated a lot of people who had money in their airplanes, and they pushed their planes into the back of the hangar and padlocked the door. The high costs and low aircraft value now makes upgrading an older airplane a seriously cost-negative situation, only doable by those truly dedicated to the cause.
The regional airline segment built their entire business model around a supply chain that no longer exists. I seriously doubt that any government funded or supported model can replace what existed up until 10 years go. It just isn't going to happen.
Throw in a societal/generation shift away from aviation interest and/or the airline lifestyle (if you can call it that), and your going to come up empty. Any solution, whether it's raising pay to attract what's left, or shifting flying to the majors, is going to cost big bucks, and, as typical, the airlines will seek to shift that cost to anyone else.
Nu
Thread Starter
This article, dated July 1, 2016, is about the relationship between Silver Airways and Pan Am Academy to supply regional pilots. Just a bit further marshalling of resources:
https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Av...lver%20Airways
https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Av...lver%20Airways
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Hey, it did say that they are offering both full time and part time pilot positions and that you can fly beyond 65 years old (due to the part 135 certificate). I think panic stage hit awhile ago.
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Awesome. You can fly 9 seat 1900's for a true bottom feeder.
Yeah, when you pull 10 seats out of your 19 seat airplanes just so you can hire lower time pilots, you're in the "taking drastic measures" realm. It's worth noting that they haven't taken the drastic step of offering competitive compensation.
Yeah, when you pull 10 seats out of your 19 seat airplanes just so you can hire lower time pilots, you're in the "taking drastic measures" realm. It's worth noting that they haven't taken the drastic step of offering competitive compensation.
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UAL just started a program with Lufthansa, at their cadet training center in Arizona. If you are a CFI (with other credentials), and you get hired by Lufthansa, you fly as CFI for your 1500 hours/ATP, and then you go directly to the UAL narrow-body fleet, bypassing the regionals.
The majors in the US have enough applicants to last them 3-5 years, then they don't know how they will keep their airframes flying, hence new programs as described above. AA has 3 wholly-owned regionals that have direct flow-thru to AA, after a certain amount of service at one of the 3 wholly-owned regionals (Envoy, PSA and Piedmont).
The majors in the US have enough applicants to last them 3-5 years, then they don't know how they will keep their airframes flying, hence new programs as described above. AA has 3 wholly-owned regionals that have direct flow-thru to AA, after a certain amount of service at one of the 3 wholly-owned regionals (Envoy, PSA and Piedmont).