FAA ATP - post your questions here.

[raysalmon]

Originally Posted by che ci dō che ci dō!

Hi everybody,
I'm an Italian citizen presently working in the Middle East on the A330 and I don't have a FAA license. I was told that to convert my ATPL into an FAA one I have first of all to submit the application to get the security clearence and next I would have to undergo a computerized exam and a Ckride. I know that the computerized test can also be done in London or Frankfurt. I was wandering if it is possible to undergo a single simu ckride on the A330 in the USA in order to cover the assessment requirements for the issue of both an FAA ATPL and a SIC A330 rating.
Anybody can tell me where I can get the relevant infos?
Thanks guys!

The short answer is yes, an ATP and type rating can be issued as a result of one checkride.

[Panama Jack]

Anybody do this lately?

[rick1128]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

Well, just tried getting an SIC type rating added at the Boston FSDO, unfortunately, unsuccessfully.
It seems that it is possible, but my application was shot down on several points-- no signature on the back of Form 8710 in the part of instructor recommendation (I guess I misread the guidance form). Also the inspector had issues with the authenticity of the signature (no title given as to who signed the endorsement), and whether the rubber stamp was added with the signature or whether it was always there on all records. Furthermore, I had handwritten the preamble endorsement in blue ink, and our chief training captain had signed it in black ink-- the inspector claimed I could have possibly added the endorsement after the signature (from whoever it was from) was already on the paper.
Oh well, I guess I´ll have to try again on the next trip to the US.
P.S. Yes Ernest, we are only talking about SIC Type Ratings-- for command ones you have to jump through the US checkride hoops.

I believe that the inspector was in error on the requirement for the 8710 to have an instructor's signature on it. In the past two months, I have sent three pilots over to our FSDO with a 8710 and a copy of their 8410's and I did not sign the 8710's. They were accepted. However the logbook needs to be signed with the PIC's certificate number. Our FSDO is accepting 8410's in lieu of the logbook signoff.

[Panama Jack]

I figured something like this has to work out it's kinks.

When I left the office I was under the impression that the requirements to satisfy were nebulous, that I better go loaded for bear next time and bring a rabbits foot and a Las Vegas attitude on getting the rating added.

Unfortunately, the guidance material published by the FAA seems to neglect giving example of a type-rating based on foreign type or training. Nothing new-- the FAR's have always seemed to be based on that anything outside of the USA is a big vacuum.

If anybody has had specific experience with the Miami or Scottsdale FSDO's I would love to hear from you.

[varigflier]

Does anybody know how to fill out the 8710? I am talking about Part I Application Information and Part II, Certificate or Rating Applied for on basis of.
I am about to go to the States to get my SIC on the FAA license and would like to get the paperwork right.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Panama Jack]

varigflyer, fortunately, if you fill it out wrong there is a good chance the FAA Inspector will give you a new form with directions.

It is pretty self explanatory-- there are detailed instructions on the form itself that should be read carefully, however, here is a quick briefing:

For Certificate/ Rating applied for "X" "Other" and write in SIC Type Rating.
The other things are as per the instructions on the form in Section 1. If you have a PO Box, they will want a physical explanation of where you live. Height and Weight in Inches and pounds. Your Citizenship is the country where you live, ie. "Brazil", NOT "Brazilian."

For Part II, I "X" box "E", put the name of the Air Carrier (I assume in your case it is "Varig" and the last date of your recurrent. For the Curriculum, leave it blank if it was a Recurrent, or check it if it was an Initial or Transition.

I had success the second time around, just make sure you have one of your Company signing authorities sign the Instructor's recommendation on the back of Form 8710!

[varigflier]

Thanks Panama Jack. Your post answered my questions. It is all filled out and signed. I'll let you know if they accept it.

[PositiveRate876]

Thanks for all that info Triple!
I'll go to the FLL FSDO when I go home in September and get
mine done.

[natterjack747]

Some ATP questions

Hi all,

I need to convert my JAA CPL/IR into an FAA ATP in order to fly a N reg jet.

Currently I have 2400hrs, 400 multi turbine, 90 hours night, 370IFR hours and around 1800 P1 time.

I realise that I need to make the night hours upto 100hrs. Can anyone tell me how the FAA define cross country time for purpose of ATP issue? I cant really find it anywhere on the net and I dont want to fall fowl of this.

Also I am banking on getting my FAA medical and sitting the ATP exam over here in the UK before doing my type rating in the US.

I am thinking that once I sit the exam and medical I can combine my type rating with the ATP checkride. Is this realistic?

Also which books would you recommend studying for the ATP exam?

Thanks!

[tgflyer]

Hi Natterjack, The FAA defines a cross country anytime that the distance from the departure airport and destination airport is 50 NM or more. You can combine the ATP checkride with a type rating checkride. The only book needed for the ATP written is a Question bank book, like the one Gleim publishes.

How do you plan on doing the conversion?? The regs would only allow you to get the a FAA CPL IR, since those are your JAA qualifications.
Be aware that the FAA may require you to do the FAA written test for your instrument rating. To be able to get a standalone FAA ATP you need to have had a previous standalone FAA certificate. Anything that says "based on a foreign certificate" is tied to the expiration date of your JAA license.

As you can see, it is quite a tricky situation. The information above is just a rough summary. For further details pm me.

Happy landings, TG

[weasil]

Hi Natterjack, The FAA defines a cross country anytime that the distance from the departure airport and destination airport is 50 NM or more.

This is only true for meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for the issuance of a private or commercial pilot certificate or instrument rating airplane.
For the issuance of an FAA ATP certificate cross country flying is defined as landing at an airport other than the one which you departed.
There are many threads on this topic in the archives here, have you tried doing a search?


Here's the basic eligibility regs for taking an FAA ATP checkride.

To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:

(a) Be at least 23 years of age;

(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;

(c) Be of good moral character;

(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:

(1) Hold at least a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating;

(2) Meet the military experience requirements under §61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating if the person is a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot of an Armed Force of the United States; or

(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations, issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.

(e) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of this subpart that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought before applying for the practical test;

(f) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of §61.155(c) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought;

(g) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation listed in §61.157(e) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and

(h) Comply with the sections of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

[weasil]

Have you considered this option?

§ 61.77 Special purpose pilot authorization: Operation of U.S.-registered civil aircraft leased by a person who is not a U.S. citizen.
top
(a) General. The holder of a foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation who meets the requirements of this section may be issued a special purpose pilot authorization by the Administrator for the purpose of performing pilot duties—

(1) On a civil aircraft of U.S. registry that is leased to a person who is not a citizen of the United States, and

(2) For carrying persons or property for compensation or hire on that aircraft.

(b) Eligibility. To be eligible for the issuance or renewal of a special purpose pilot authorization, an applicant must present the following to an FAA Flight Standards District Office:

(1) A current foreign pilot license that has been issued by the aeronautical authority of a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation from which the person holds citizenship or resident status and that contains the appropriate aircraft category, class, instrument rating, and type rating, if appropriate, for the aircraft to be flown;

(2) A current certification by the lessee of the aircraft—

(i) Stating that the applicant is employed by the lessee;

(ii) Specifying the aircraft type on which the applicant will perform pilot duties; and

(iii) Stating that the applicant has received ground and flight instruction that qualifies the applicant to perform the duties to be assigned on the aircraft.

(3) Documentation showing when the applicant will reach the age of 60 years (an official copy of the applicant's birth certificate or other official documentation);

(4) Documentation that the applicant meets the medical standards for the issuance of the foreign pilot license from the aeronautical authority of the contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation where the applicant holds citizenship or resident status;

(5) Documentation that the applicant meets the recent flight experience requirements of this part (a logbook or flight record); and

(6) A statement that the applicant does not already hold a special purpose pilot authorization; however, if the applicant already holds a special purpose pilot authorization, then that special purpose pilot authorization must be surrendered to either the FAA Flight Standards District Office that issued it, or the FAA Flight Standards District Office processing the application for the authorization, prior to being issued another special purpose pilot authorization.

(c) Privileges. A person issued a special purpose pilot authorization under this section—

(1) May exercise the privileges prescribed on the special purpose pilot authorization; and

(2) Must comply with the limitations specified in this section and any additional limitations specified on the special purpose pilot authorization.

(d) General limitations. A special purpose pilot authorization is valid only—

(1) For flights between foreign countries or for flights in foreign air commerce within the time period allotted on the authorization;

(2) If the foreign pilot license required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the medical documentation required by paragraph (b)(4) of this section, and the special purpose pilot authorization issued under this section are in the holder's physical possession or immediately accessible in the aircraft;

(3) While the holder is employed by the person to whom the aircraft described in the certification required by paragraph (b)(2) of this section is leased;

(4) While the holder is performing pilot duties on the U.S.-registered aircraft described in the certification required by paragraph (b)(2) of this section; and

(5) If the holder has only one special purpose pilot authorization as provided in paragraph (b)(6) of this section.

(e) Age limitation. Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, no person who holds a special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part, and no person who holds a special purpose pilot certificate issued under this part before August 4, 1997, shall serve as a pilot on a civil airplane of U.S. registry if the person has reached his or her 60th birthday, in the following operations:

(1) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in turbojet-powered airplanes;

(2) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than nine passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat;

(3) Nonscheduled international air transportation for compensation or hire in airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than 30 passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat; or

(4) Scheduled international air services, or nonscheduled international air transportation for compensation or hire, in airplanes having a payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds.

(f) Definitions. (1) International air service, as used in paragraph (e) of this section, means scheduled air service performed in airplanes for the public transport of passengers, mail, or cargo, in which the service passes through the air space over the territory of more than one country.

(2) International air transportation, as used in paragraph (e) of this section, means air transportation performed in airplanes for the public transport of passengers, mail, or cargo, in which service passes through the air space over the territory of more than one country.

(g) Delayed pilot age limitations for certain operations. Until December 20, 1999, a person may serve as a pilot in the operations specified in paragraph (e) of this section after that person has reached his or her 60th birthday, if, on March 20, 1997, that person was employed as a pilot in any of the following operations:

(1) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in nontransport category turbopropeller-powered airplanes type certificated after December 31, 1964, that have a passenger-seat configuration of 10 to 19 seats;

(2) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in transport category turbopropeller-powered airplanes that have a passenger-seat configuration of 20 to 30 seats; or

(3) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in turbojet-powered airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 1 to 30 seats.

(h) Expiration date. Each special purpose pilot authorization issued under this section expires—

(1) 60 calendar months from the month it was issued, unless sooner suspended or revoked;

(2) When the lease agreement for the aircraft expires or the lessee terminates the employment of the person who holds the special purpose pilot authorization;

(3) Whenever the person's foreign pilot license has been suspended, revoked, or is no longer valid; or

(4) When the person no longer meets the medical standards for the issuance of the foreign pilot license.

(i) Renewal. A person exercising the privileges of a special purpose pilot authorization may apply for a 60-calendar-month extension of that authorization, provided the person—

(1) Continues to meet the requirements of this section; and

(2) Surrenders the expired special purpose pilot authorization upon receipt of the new authorization.

(j) Surrender. The holder of a special purpose pilot authorization must surrender the authorization to the Administrator within 7 days after the date the authorization terminates.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 40901, July 30, 1997]

[BelArgUSA]

Type Ratings with FAA ATP

Hola Natterjack /
xxx
All above statements are correct... but there are a few things to mention.
xxx
You can combine your type rating ride with the initial ATP qualification ride, provided like explained above, you have passed the written... which is easy.
xxx
However, for the type rating... you did not say which one... Fact is, a "first type rating" requires, besides the rating ride in the simulator, that you do fly the actual airplane to complete 3 landings... if that has not been changed since I left the USA...
xxx
Example... you want a type rating on a Citation CE-500, you do the entire training and ATP check ride in a simulator, then you will be required to fly the aircraft for 3 landings (airplane rental 45 minutes...?)... you first type rating, and on a CE-500, quite inexpensive...
xxx
But if you wish, as an example, a B-737 type rating, doing 45 minutes in a B-737 might be quite expensive... So, what you should do, is the CE-500 rating first (with ATP) as explained above, then do the B-737 training and rating, as you now meet the requirements of simulator only training, since you aleady have a jet type rating.
xxx
Typical prices - Citation CE-500 type rating (with ATP) about US$ 6,000, includes airplane rental for the 3 landings... and B-737 rating, all simulator US$ 7,000, but if you do not hold a jet type rating, is US$ 14 or 15,000.
xxx

Happy contrails

[flyboyike]

^^^
That doesn't appear to be correct anymore, at least not entirely. I wasn't required to do any landigs in the airplane for my first (and so far only) type rating, however I do have the "circling approach VMC only" limitation.

[varigflier]

Well, I got shot down on my first try as they said they couldn´t verify who signed my 8710. I did not have a company letter, just 8710, logbook endorsements and training records. I thought that would´ve been enough but they complained about the signature on the 8710. Gotta try again next time.

[natterjack747]

So basically it looks like that I meet all the relevent regs. So I take the ATP written exam and then combine my learjet type rating with the ATP checkride and then I'm granted an FAA ATP with the type rating. Correct?

Thanks

[BelArgUSA]

Affrirmative, Natterjack /
xxx
If you have the written FAA ATP and take the FAA ATP/LR-JET check ride, you will obtain what I read you want to have.
xxx
Your FAA certificate (licence) will read as follows -
"Airline Transport Pilot
"Airplane Multiengine Land - LR-JET
A small detail... Apply for an FCC R/T Operator certificate while you are in the USA, since your airplane will be US registry, you are better to have a R/T certificate that goes along with it. No test, only costs you $10.oo or so...
xxx
Your certificate will remain valid provided that you meet FAR 61.58 (PIC) or 61.55 (SIC) requirements and hold a current FAA medical certificate.
The LR-JET type rating is valid on Lear 23/24/25, 28/29, 31, 35/36 and 55 types.
xxx

Happy contrails

[poorwanderingwun]

One small point that I (and the FAA) somehow overlooked after completing all the tests... On my UK licence I had both Multi and single ratings... having flown a twin for the FAA ATPL check-ride my ATP was issued for multi-eng... no reference to singles... on noticing that, I approached the FAA in the hope of getting it included but was told..too late... I would have to submit myself to another flight test.

[buddy76]

Do I qualify for the ATP?

Hi everyone,
I am an Italian Navy pilot with ICAO CPL/ME/IR plus FAA PPL and I currently have 1520hrs TT as a pilot. I flew 280 hrs in T-34C and T-44A with the US Navy before becoming a Naval Aviator in 2001 and the rest (about 1240hrs) have been on big patrol plane ME as SIC (the plane was Breguet 1150 Atlantique requiring 2 pilots and a FE). I am now starting my PIC transition but so far I don't have any PIC time except for solos (22hrs) and 1 hr in the T-44A. I meet all the requirements for ATP experience (XC, night, iNSTR. etc) but, do I QUALIFY for an ATP without any PIC time? (I have 460 hrs performing the duties of a PIC and as PF)..

Thanks a lot for any reply/help.

Fly safe ya'll

[chimbu warrior]

A pass in the written and a checkride might help.