Rodrek

Hello everybody,

I'm a pilot holding an english CAA CPL and I'd like to start the multi IR training course asap. I know that I can get the rating with not so many "paperwork-troubles" as long as I get a JAA training and People told me that you've got excellent schools with fair prices (Iceland, Sweeden, Norway).
I'd like to know of your personal experience and any information about schools and prices would be much appreciated.

Regards.

aozc

Airways flygutbildning at Bromma is excellent. Good DA40/DA42 airplanes, good instructors and nicely situated at Bromma. I don't know however for how long they will remain there.

I did IR CPL ME with them and it cost me roughly €23k, with the CPL part removed i think it should be around €15k. Half of the IR training is done in their DA42 simulator for a reduced cost and independent of weather.

truckflyer

Why you want to do it in Scandinavia?

UK is probably much cheaper, at least compared to Norway!

But the big question is, where is your ATPL theory from? What country CAA? Because if this is not in the country you plan to do your IR, you will need to apply for dispensation in both countries, where you sat your exams, and the country you plan to take your IR.

I know Norway is not very helpfull with this, UK you should have less problems. Believe me, Scandinavia is not as easy with paper work as you think.

A good affordable school in the UK is Stapleford Flight Centre, IR is around Ł12.000 and the ME is around Ł3.000. ME done in Seneca, and ME/IR done in DA42 sim and aircraft.

I can tell you, Norway for sure is not the place to do it, will cost you a fortune, and the Norwegian CAA is tough work, half the people do not know the correct regulations and paperwork.

However, first thing is, where did you sit your ATPL exams, under what CAA country, if that is not a Scandinavien country, I would tell you that you probably have no chance to do your IR there, normally must be done in same country! (Air Law - Lasors)

Rodrek

I did my ATPL exams in Italy and then I studied for the CPL in a flight school in Florida, sent the paperwork to the english CAA and now I'm looking for the IR-ME course...I already got the multi engine rating though.
(I transferred the ATPL theory from the Italian to the English CAA and they issued my license, no problem with that)
I checked the lasors and in section E 1.2 it says:

IR(A) Training conducted in other JAA States
In accordance with JAR-FCL 1.065(c), training and testing
for an IR(A) may be undertaken at a JAA Approved FTO in
another JAA Member State.

In addition in section A.8 it says:
The CAA will only issue a licence to applicants who
complete their training at Registered Facilities or
Organisations approved by the CAA.
[...]
Further ratings (e.g. type/class/instrument/instructor)
may be obtained under JAR-FCL requirements in any
JAA Member State and will be entered into the licence
by the ‘State of Licence Issue’. For endorsement of the
rating onto a UK issued licence, this is on the proviso that
a full course of training and testing is completed at a JAA
Approved Training provider.

They make a distinction between Licence and Rating.
So I think I can get my IR training course in a JAA school but my only concern's about EASA rules that are going to be applied in april 2012. Haven't checked that properly yet.
By the way I think I'm going to contact the CAA to be sure about what I'm gonna do.

I checked some schools in Iceland and they asked me 12k euros for the IR= 30 hours on sim and 15 on multiengine.
I'm willing to pay that amount of money if I know that the school's good...you know I'd like to get some of your opinion before going there.
Thank you for your replies

Rodrek

"Because if this is not in the country you plan to do your IR, you will need to apply for dispensation in both countries, where you sat your exams, and the country you plan to take your IR."

please let me get this straight...
@truckflyer: so...for example If I go to Iceland and I do the IR training do I have to pay 2 fees? both for the Icelandic examiner and the English one? O_o

OAD

As the rest said, you have to do it in the same country where you did your frozen ATPL theory, also check that you have 36 month to do that before the theory expires, the same for ME. Any ways check this link
http://easa.europa.eu/certification/.../JAR-FCL-1.pdf

Also you will not find any school in scandinavia that can be cheaper then UK, and the weather, is bad most of the times, you mencioned that you did your ATPL in Italy, check with the authority if you can go an do it there. There are thousands of places all over Europe to go cheaper then scandinavia, even paying with pounds.

99% that you have to do it in UK

truckflyer

I can promise you Norway will not give you this dispensation, UK are quite unique in this situation, they are more flexible than most.

I am 99% sure with your ATPL's in Italy, approved in the UK, you will not be allowed to do it in Scandinavia!

Any may I ask why would you, will be more expensive than in the UK. Your license is issued in the UK, so before doing IR in Iceland, you would need to change your licence to Iceland. (or any other country you choose)

However I don't know why you would want to do this, no economical sense, and making loads of complications for yourself where you licence is issued.


You will need to ask UK CAA or any other CAA, if you can do the IR in their country, with your ATPL theory from Italy.

Issuing a licence, does not mean you can do your IR in the UK, as from the outset IR should be done in same country as ATPL theory. UK is probably the country that will approve your ATPL theory for IR in the UK, Scandinavia is more complicated, at least Norway is.

With regards to Iceland, be careful going to an unknown school, lot's of business in Iceland have had big economical problems.

You will need to make application to each CAA, call them and ask them, they will let you know.

Remember you first need to do the Multi Engine rating and than the ME/IR!

With the apply dispensation, that is what it is, dispensation, and CAA's have to accept this, and most don't accept other nationals except in special circumstances, which you don't have here!

Rodrek

just to be clear I'm doing a modular course and I already have a multiengine rating.
I don't want to change my license again, I'm good with the uk CAA.
I think I'm going to call both the english and the icelandic CAA to figure it out!
Thank you for the tips!

truckflyer

If you want to do IR in Iceland, you will have to have an Icelandic issued licence, those are the rules.
You can not go and do IR in Iceland, and CAA UK issue you their IR!

However I doubt very much Iceland will approve you to do the IR with ATPL's from Italy anyway, you have already it seems got the permission once to change to the CAA UK.

It is pretty simple, Iceland IR - Iceland licence, believe me I know this, because I have gone trough all this myself, I used to have a Norwegian licence.

Your first call would be Iceland CAA, that will pretty much tell you all you need to know.

Rodrek

got it! Thank you truck, I'll let u know!

Rodrek

GUYS
I've got the information!
and it's written here
JAR-FCL req. training for add. ratings in Iceland
so I can add a icelandic IR to my UK license.
Now..
do you know any good school in Iceland?
do you know any of them written on this list?
Handhafar kennsluleyfa
can you please give me some feedbacks?
what do you think about FLUGSKOLI?

thankz

truckflyer

So did you ask CAA UK if they will accept to do this?

Initial instrument rating is different than renewal regulations. For renewal you can do in any country, first time IR I doubt it!

You need to get personal confirmation, not just reading standard information on their websites. Nothing is assumed, you need to make request.

Don't think CAA UK will accept initial IR from Iceland, but than again I might be wrong. From what I recall CAA UK have a few schools outside that they have pre-approved the training, where they will accept training.

Call CAA UK, and see what they tell you!

truckflyer

You should read the following link from same website;

JAR-FCL CPL with ATPL Theory from elsewhere


If agreed by two JAA member states a pilot holding a national ICAO PPL or a JAR-FCL PPL can pass the ATPL theory examination in one state and have the CPL training and pass the skill test in Iceland. Iceland would then become the state of licence issue.

This is in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.065 b). For the time being an agreement exists between Icelandic and UK CAA. However each case must be considered and such arrangement is not accepted by all JAA states.

To start with, the applicants will have to apply to the Icelandic CAA for exemption from JAR-FCL 1.065 a) which states that all training, examinations and tests must be completed in the state of licence issue.

This application can be made by e-mail to ICAA licensing section, [email protected] The ICAA will then require a confirmation of the pass of the ATPL theory. If the other state is not UK, both states’ agreement is necessary for every case.


The applicants must hold a JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical certificate (initial examination).

If they are holding Class 1 Medical certificate issued in another JAA member state they will have to fill out a certain form and apply for transfer of Medical Certificate to Icelandic JAR-FCL Medical certificate before licence issue.

truckflyer

As a follow up, I doubt that you would qualify for exemption, as you are not from Iceland, and exemption is not always given, unless special circumstances, so I was told by the CAA in Norway 2 years ago.

classic efis

It is very much possible to transfer the ATPL theory to another country within Europe.

If holding a PPL + ATPL theory and wanting to obtain a CPL, the ATPL theory must be transfered to the country where the training is performed. This will now be your license issuing state.

If holding a CPL and an IR is desired, you do not normally need to change license isuing state even though you are performing the training in a different country.

Flight training is cheaper in Sweden than in the UK. Norway and Finland is fairly expensive. Iceland is unknown territory.

truckflyer

What prices you expect in Sweden? Since you say cheaper than UK, I am curious!

FI-A

Prices for a twin + instructor in Sweden is between 450 to 500 euros per block hour.

The hourly rate for a single engine IR block hour + instructor (of course) is about 60 % of the above.

Rodrek

thank you FI-A for your info!
Well..it's not cheaper than England but thank you anyway.
Does anyone know anything about this school in ICELAND?
Flugskóli | Tćkniskólinn - Skóli atvinnulífsins
Any feedback would be much appreciated!

truckflyer

Yes that is not cheap Sweden. DA42 in UK with instructor would be similar or less. And life in Sweden is much more expensive than UK.