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RAF Rivet joint and the SU-27s

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RAF Rivet joint and the SU-27s

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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:34
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RAF Rivet joint and the SU-27s

BREAKING: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace tells MPs that on September 29 an RAF RC-135 Rivet Joint spy plane was being shadowed by two Russian Su-27s in international airspace when one of the Su-27s "released a missle in the vicinity of the Rivet Joint".

Rivet Joint patrols were suspended, the Russians blamed a "technical malfunction" for the missile being released (?!). Patrols have restarted but the Rivet Joints are now escorted by fighter jets, MPs have been told…..
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:53
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Originally Posted by ChrisJ800
To counter the drones with 40kg non armour piercin warheads that use GPS i propose chicken wire fencing around energy infrastrucure targets. When i drove around GCHQ in Cheltenham i am sure my car GPS was not working there so gps and glonass can be jammed.. This seems more cost effective than using high tech and expensive ordinance to take them out?
Were I on the drone design team I would include dual programs. One based on GPS and the other based on time and magnetic heading. As long as the GPS had a good signal the time and heading would get corrections to account for local winds. If the GPS signal is jammed then continue on time and magnetic heading. The drones are aimed at a city - precision isn't required, just a bonus to hit particular areas. If the GPS was spoofed so the drone detected that it was now far away, so that the heading was far off, that would also be detectable. Of course the problem with spoofing is that all other similar munitions will also be off, so it would ruin all readings from the off-the-shelf consumer drones used to dial in artillery. If GPS was messed with enough they could just stick with magnetic heading - they still blow up somewhere.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:59
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So either Russia are admitting that pilot training is poor enough that a missile was released accidentally, their maintenance is poor enough that the missile just fell off mid-flight, or they are lying. Which could it be . . .
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:05
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
So either Russia are admitting that pilot training is poor enough that a missile was released accidentally, their maintenance is poor enough that the missile just fell off mid-flight, or they are lying. Which could it be . . .
From the Telegraph, whether the "fired" bit is correct to journalistic assumption might be open to question.
A Russian aircraft on Sept. 29 released a missile near a British aircraft patrolling in international airspace over the Black Sea, the Defence Secretary, has revealed.

Ben Wallace told parliament Britain had suspended patrols following the incident involving an unarmed RAF RC-135W Rivet Joint spy plane, which was on a routine patrol when it was intercepted by two Russian SU 27 fighter aircraft.

One of the Russian jets fired a missile from beyond the visual range of the RAF plane, Mr Wallace said.

Mr Wallace said he wrote to his counterpart and the chief of defence staff in Moscow about what was a “potentially dangerous engagement” to express his concerns.

On October 10 Moscow replied, stating that they had conducted an investigation and put the engagement down to a “technical malfunction”. Moscow acknowledged the incident took place in international airspace.

Britain has now resumed patrols, which now have fighter aircraft escorts, he added.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:21
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Sorry

Reported on LBC at about 1230 that during a Rivet Joint sortie recently, an Su27 went home with one less missile than it started with.
The Kremlin reports it was a 'malfunction'.

Mods please merge if it's already been covered.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:25
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
So either Russia are admitting that pilot training is poor enough that a missile was released accidentally, their maintenance is poor enough that the missile just fell off mid-flight, or they are lying. Which could it be . . .
Wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination of all of the above....!
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:31
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A Russian aircraft fired a missile `near` the Rivett Joint aircraft while in international waters.
Happened in September. Russia claims technical issue.

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Last edited by uxb99; 20th Oct 2022 at 15:54.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:39
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
So either Russia are admitting that pilot training is poor enough that a missile was released accidentally, their maintenance is poor enough that the missile just fell off mid-flight, or they are lying. Which could it be . . .
Starting to look like there might be prospective openings for anyone who can't get a job in China....

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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:40
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Originally Posted by Ohrly
So either Russia are admitting that pilot training is poor enough that a missile was released accidentally,,, .
I'm sure there are ex-RAF guys who can bought remunerated commensurate with their experience and worth to go over there and train Russia's pilots. :P
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:45
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy
I'm sure there are ex-RAF guys who can bought remunerated commensurate with their experience and worth to go over there and train Russia's pilots. :P
Some even have experience of accidental missile firing!
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 13:00
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Fire for effect with a radar BVR missile from long range without a lock, or breaking lock, to force a “hostile “ to react and turn away.

The hostile has to honour the threat and break away.

A very hard nosed warning.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 13:14
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Potential track of the aircraft involved:

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Old 20th Oct 2022, 13:23
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So either Russia are admitting that pilot training is poor enough that a missile was released accidentally, their maintenance is poor enough that the missile just fell off mid-flight, or they are lying. Which could it be . . .
It can happen to the best trained people. I seem to recall a Jaguar being shot down by an F4 in RAFG on Q.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 13:24
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Presumably the Rivet Joint has the Tape of the incident ( that’s it’s job after all). Whether the incident was an accident or a warning to go away, should be fairly clear.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 14:04
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy
I'm sure there are ex-RAF guys who can bought remunerated commensurate with their experience and worth to go over there and train Russia's pilots. :P
The trouble being getting the birds in the air to fly training sorties, I suspect. Their spares / maintenance support methodology is rumored to be pretty bad.
Originally Posted by ORAC
Fire for effect with a radar BVR missile from long range without a lock, or breaking lock, to force a “hostile “ to react and turn away.
Oh, to have been a fly on the wall during that mission debrief.
Originally Posted by Ohrly
Potential track of the aircraft involved: https://twitter.com/air_intel/status...59425006604288
Looks like 3 weeks ago.
Glad everyone got home.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 14:05
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Originally Posted by KiloB
Presumably the Rivet Joint has the Tape of the incident ( that’s it’s job after all). Whether the incident was an accident or a warning to go away, should be fairly clear.
I bet it'll have ECM to counteract any missile firing too.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 18:47
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If - a big IF but stick with me - it was a technical malfunction and not a 'signal' - they better hope it doesn't happen with a fighter escort present.
Pretty sure that having a hostile jet release a missile in the vicinity of friendly that you've been tasked to protect would prompt return fire. Things could rapidly get pretty nasty after that.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 19:21
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Before the RJ had fighter support what would be it's reaction to a targeted missile? Presumably it has some form of air defence?
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 19:23
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Originally Posted by uxb99
Before the RJ had fighter support what would be it's reaction to a targeted missile? Presumably it has some form of air defence?
Presumably you don't expect an answer to your question.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 19:23
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Originally Posted by tdracer
If - a big IF but stick with me - it was a technical malfunction and not a 'signal' - they better hope it doesn't happen with a fighter escort present.
Pretty sure that having a hostile jet release a missile in the vicinity of friendly that you've been tasked to protect would prompt return fire. Things could rapidly get pretty nasty after that.
Didn't something similar happen in the Gulf of Tonkin with a NV PT boat which gave the Americans an excuse to escalate the Vietnam war? I seem to recall the Americans had a small battle with themselves for a while.
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