Positive vetting and university
Thread Starter
Positive vetting and university
Greetings comrades,
this is not an attempt to elicit classified information - genuine question.
Lad has started at a well know Orstrayan university doing a subject related to aviation while he waits to have another crack at the RAAF ASP.
Now - as we know - university is a time to widen one's horizons.
He came home the other night with a copy of the Red Crescent, or whatever the bloody socialist club's publication is - and announced he was thinking of going to their conference; to be held soon in another Australian city.
After recovering from spraying my gin all over my herringbone tweed jacket - I harrumphed, twisted my handlebar `tache and told him he needed to watch out for the ASIO spooks and informers who would be there too.
"In this time of Australio-Sino-Russo paranoia," said I, "...they're probably keeping reasonably close tabs on people."
"And your average spook is probably not too well versed in the differences between democratic socialism and the flavour of whatever's practised in China and Russia," I added.
"Wouldn't be a good look for you to front up wanting to fly something fast and pointy - only for you to be denied a secret clearance because you'd formally associated with those red oiks."
I also pointed out that the military tends to be, ahem, somewhat conservative in it's political viewpoint.
Mrs T agreed with me (one of the rare occasions).
Cue standard "Dad, you're a moron," teenager versus father argument...
So, am I being positive-vetting paranoid?
Maybe the spooks have enough on their plates catching potential domestic terrorists etc. and I should let the boy be.
The complexities of bringing up kids.
Oh, and hello in the Ben Chiffley building or Russell Offices if you lot are watching and listening...
this is not an attempt to elicit classified information - genuine question.
Lad has started at a well know Orstrayan university doing a subject related to aviation while he waits to have another crack at the RAAF ASP.
Now - as we know - university is a time to widen one's horizons.
He came home the other night with a copy of the Red Crescent, or whatever the bloody socialist club's publication is - and announced he was thinking of going to their conference; to be held soon in another Australian city.
After recovering from spraying my gin all over my herringbone tweed jacket - I harrumphed, twisted my handlebar `tache and told him he needed to watch out for the ASIO spooks and informers who would be there too.
"In this time of Australio-Sino-Russo paranoia," said I, "...they're probably keeping reasonably close tabs on people."
"And your average spook is probably not too well versed in the differences between democratic socialism and the flavour of whatever's practised in China and Russia," I added.
"Wouldn't be a good look for you to front up wanting to fly something fast and pointy - only for you to be denied a secret clearance because you'd formally associated with those red oiks."
I also pointed out that the military tends to be, ahem, somewhat conservative in it's political viewpoint.
Mrs T agreed with me (one of the rare occasions).
Cue standard "Dad, you're a moron," teenager versus father argument...
So, am I being positive-vetting paranoid?
Maybe the spooks have enough on their plates catching potential domestic terrorists etc. and I should let the boy be.
The complexities of bringing up kids.
Oh, and hello in the Ben Chiffley building or Russell Offices if you lot are watching and listening...
Last edited by tartare; 9th Mar 2020 at 05:33.
From my experience of dealing with an aspiring fast and pointy orientated sibling, he was at pains to point out to me that one of the key principles , was to have a series of well rounded, aviation related experiences. Other areas of interest, i.e. Cadet membership, flying training, culture, sport, hobbies and politics, may all be raised during interviews. Each of these when assessed individually, presented a broad perspective of an individuals personal characteristics and ethos. Different characteristics and abilities were weighted and determined the suitability of the candidate. What weight the interviewers would place on such a characteristic mentioned, I do not know, but I suspect it would not be minimal.
I am sure he intends to announce his political persuasions to the board?
IG
I am sure he intends to announce his political persuasions to the board?
IG
Last edited by Imagegear; 9th Mar 2020 at 08:29.
My PV was a long time ago now, but the general idea then seemed to be that it didn’t much matter what you had done, as long as you owned up to it, so that you were not subject to blackmail. If he tells the vetters that he had been to this or that meeting to see what all the fuss was about I doubt that there would be a problem. If, on the other hand he doesn’t mention it but they know about it, he would be in trouble.
Dick 'Whizzbang', one of my 14GE chums had been up at Oxford before RAFC. He was rather bemused to receive a postcard one day from one of his university mates...posted in Leningrad. "COMRADELY GREETINGS FROM THE EGALITARIAN PARDISE!", it began "The cruiser Aurora, hero of the revolution, is moored opposite my hotel".
Poor old Dick had to take the card to the RAFP and insist that it was a prank, but it took some explaining....
Poor old Dick had to take the card to the RAFP and insist that it was a prank, but it took some explaining....
I did fess up to going on a Student Union bus trip to London for a CND March. Why? Came the reply.
It was the cheapest (ie free) way of getting to the Motor Show!
It was the cheapest (ie free) way of getting to the Motor Show!
Having gone along and found out about said organisation shouldn't disbar him subject to him not having committed anything illegal. Fact that can discuss it both positive and negative rather than boy scouts who only attended right wing events.
If people were disbarred from future career based on what they did when a teenager it would be worrying, President Chirac sold papers for French Communist Party, Baroness Ashton was membership secretary for CND, Eric Pickles was a raving socialist before he became a raving right winger.
I remember a movie with Adam Sandler where he on trial for going to a "socialist" party thing in the US, his excuse was he was after a girl,as many went along there that were hot he figured best place to meet hot girls. His statement was "Who hasn't done something stupid after a girl".
In a functioning democracy allowing people to find out what is within its democracy should be healthy, if vetting him for finding out disbars him then think the democracy he wants to protect as a pilot is not functioning.
If people were disbarred from future career based on what they did when a teenager it would be worrying, President Chirac sold papers for French Communist Party, Baroness Ashton was membership secretary for CND, Eric Pickles was a raving socialist before he became a raving right winger.
I remember a movie with Adam Sandler where he on trial for going to a "socialist" party thing in the US, his excuse was he was after a girl,as many went along there that were hot he figured best place to meet hot girls. His statement was "Who hasn't done something stupid after a girl".
In a functioning democracy allowing people to find out what is within its democracy should be healthy, if vetting him for finding out disbars him then think the democracy he wants to protect as a pilot is not functioning.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
I would be concerned if he didn't have lefty leanings at that age! As Timelord says, the simple rule is to be honest and open about these things and then they don't matter.
/Covert operatives don't need to go to obscure shady meetings to find unwitting agents of a foreign intelligence service, when they can go directly to Westminster and save some time.
/Covert operatives don't need to go to obscure shady meetings to find unwitting agents of a foreign intelligence service, when they can go directly to Westminster and save some time.
Thread Starter
Thanks Lads.
I shall ease up on him - probably the odd hot Doris at the conference - and he'll probably end up being bored ****eless after the first workshop or two on Marxist theory...
I shall ease up on him - probably the odd hot Doris at the conference - and he'll probably end up being bored ****eless after the first workshop or two on Marxist theory...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Recruiters for such nations, such as Cambridge in the 1930s, make sure thei4 recruits do not join such organisations or attend their meetings.......
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Interviewers are bound to want to know about his extramural activities whilst at university and won't look kindly on any deliberate omissions.
Your son will probably be allowed to talk freely about his association with the far left and after their (very astute) questions will decide whether it was all a harmless student excursion from reality or if your son may have some serious left to far left sympathies. The latter not likely to be the qualities they are looking for in a would-be gung-ho fighter pilot in a highly selective and competitive market. Although university professors are often tarred with the far left political leanings brush it would not be the first time that one or two of them had a second job with ASIO and your son is unlikely to spot them. Could even be a few on this forum!
.
Your son will probably be allowed to talk freely about his association with the far left and after their (very astute) questions will decide whether it was all a harmless student excursion from reality or if your son may have some serious left to far left sympathies. The latter not likely to be the qualities they are looking for in a would-be gung-ho fighter pilot in a highly selective and competitive market. Although university professors are often tarred with the far left political leanings brush it would not be the first time that one or two of them had a second job with ASIO and your son is unlikely to spot them. Could even be a few on this forum!
.The thing was the guy challenging him was not a University lecturer but was the maintenance guy in the place, friend worked there and said post this the guy was seen as a hero to the students because he made sure stuff worked, place was clean etc and allowed them to get away with little.
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Isn't it already Game Over? - not because of his new interests, but because he can't hold a mature conversation with you about it.
How is he going to cope with the robust training methods and debriefing he'll meet in the RAAF?
How is he going to cope with the robust training methods and debriefing he'll meet in the RAAF?
Not necessarily - I know a lot of teenagers (my own included) who can hold a mature conversation with almost any adult except their own parents...
Thread Starter
I concur on the mature conversation - the maturity filter switches off when most teenagers get angry with their parents.
The lad is pretty good on the robust and tough.
I think it's more the theory he's interested in and the historical context - he's got a questioning mind and developing good critical thinking skills.
One thing that did occur to me was it's important to `know your enemy'.
For example, how do China and Russia specialists on those particular desks at Langley end up being there?
Clearly they will have studied their areas of specialism in great detail at University - and yet they're eligible for Top Secret clearances - even SCI in some cases.
I suspect the conference is fine - but stay away from the protests - and don't join any militant groups.
The lad is pretty good on the robust and tough.
I think it's more the theory he's interested in and the historical context - he's got a questioning mind and developing good critical thinking skills.
One thing that did occur to me was it's important to `know your enemy'.
For example, how do China and Russia specialists on those particular desks at Langley end up being there?
Clearly they will have studied their areas of specialism in great detail at University - and yet they're eligible for Top Secret clearances - even SCI in some cases.
I suspect the conference is fine - but stay away from the protests - and don't join any militant groups.
I've know I've been "persilled" a few times for specific jobs (so presumably also checked for others that I never heard about ) but the one that really impressed me was wayyy back - when a couple of guys turned up without notice at my dear mother's checking out an old friend of mine - who was an RN AB who had applied to move to the (then) Polaris fleet. They had ID establishing they were from "the organs of the State" as they say in Moscow.
They were checking his life history as far back as they could - she'd known him since he was born. They weren't pushing hard for any "radical" past - they seemed to be much more interested in establishing stories and really trivial facts from the past (eg the layout of the house when he was 8) that they could ask him about - clearly worried about "sleepers" or people with false ID's IMHO. Very professional and a very deep clean
They were checking his life history as far back as they could - she'd known him since he was born. They weren't pushing hard for any "radical" past - they seemed to be much more interested in establishing stories and really trivial facts from the past (eg the layout of the house when he was 8) that they could ask him about - clearly worried about "sleepers" or people with false ID's IMHO. Very professional and a very deep clean
