Army won’t sack recruits who use cocaine because the are so short of troops...
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HMS Vigilant: Nine sailors fired after failing drugs tests - BBC News
Nine sailors from a nuclear missile submarine have been dismissed from the Royal Navy after failing drug tests, the Ministry of Defence has said.
The servicemen had been serving aboard HMS Vigilant, which carries the Trident nuclear deterrent. The Daily Mail reported that the drug they had taken was cocaine.
The Royal Navy said it did not tolerate drugs misuse, adding: "Those found to have fallen short of our high standards face being discharged from service."
HMS Vigilant is one of Britain's four Vanguard-class submarines which carry up to eight Trident missiles armed with nuclear warheads.
The submarine is based at Her Majesty's Naval Base Clyde at Faslane in Argyll and Bute.
Nine sailors from a nuclear missile submarine have been dismissed from the Royal Navy after failing drug tests, the Ministry of Defence has said.
The servicemen had been serving aboard HMS Vigilant, which carries the Trident nuclear deterrent. The Daily Mail reported that the drug they had taken was cocaine.
The Royal Navy said it did not tolerate drugs misuse, adding: "Those found to have fallen short of our high standards face being discharged from service."
HMS Vigilant is one of Britain's four Vanguard-class submarines which carry up to eight Trident missiles armed with nuclear warheads.
The submarine is based at Her Majesty's Naval Base Clyde at Faslane in Argyll and Bute.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess it might be difficult to spot the difference between "a bunch of crack-heads as squaddies" and the usual item....................
whereas people in close proximty to N-weapons........... you want to be as boring and routine as possible - I hope they only recruit golfers...........
whereas people in close proximty to N-weapons........... you want to be as boring and routine as possible - I hope they only recruit golfers...........
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: s e england
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the Commander and the Executive officer both having sex with female members of the crew, I imagine that general discipline on board was poor to say the least. I gather that the rest of the officers had all threatened to resign if nothing was done.
I must get my hearing checked. I thought the MoD was always on about "growing the Royal Navy" but it seems that it was actually "snow in the Royal Navy". Now there's a line to take!
Absolutely agree with the navy's actions here, but I rather think there is a difference between crew members using cocaine when on shore leave from a nuclear sub, and young recruits getting booted out of the army for a first offence. Final warning would be appropriate in those circumstances.
Incidentally I wonder what results would turn up if the whole crew were breathalysed when back on duty after a typically boozy run ashore?
Incidentally I wonder what results would turn up if the whole crew were breathalysed when back on duty after a typically boozy run ashore?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"With the Commander and the Executive officer both having sex with female members of the crew,"
but better than those traditional navy recruiting virtues of Rum....... etc etc
but better than those traditional navy recruiting virtues of Rum....... etc etc
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,819
Received 2,799 Likes
on
1,192 Posts
Personally I would introduce mandatory drug testing all the way up the chain, parliament included.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: over the rainbow
Age: 75
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A cost-cutting proposal to axe 1,000 Royal Marines would quickly lead to a shortfall in Britain’s elite special forces, internal Ministry of Defence estimates have suggested.
Just under half of Britain’s special forces are taken from the Royal Marines and the cut would significantly restrict their recruiting pool.
Service chiefs have each been asked to submit proposals to save money as the MoD tries to hit stiff savings targets of £20bn over the next decade before the Treasury will release money for new warships, planes and vehicles.
Cutting 1,000 Marines from their current total of 6,600 and selling off amphibious ships is understood to be one of the First Sea Lord’s suggested options to save money.
Just under half of Britain’s special forces are taken from the Royal Marines and the cut would significantly restrict their recruiting pool.
Service chiefs have each been asked to submit proposals to save money as the MoD tries to hit stiff savings targets of £20bn over the next decade before the Treasury will release money for new warships, planes and vehicles.
Cutting 1,000 Marines from their current total of 6,600 and selling off amphibious ships is understood to be one of the First Sea Lord’s suggested options to save money.
I have always naively imagined that discipline and leadership in the RN generally but especially on the nuclear boats was above reproach, but seemingly not the case.
A really sad chain of events for the RN and UK in general.
Trim Stab,
The ratings' sackings are an inevitable consequence under Service law of their having failed drug testing. The officers' (consensual) sexual dalliances and poor leadership seem to have been treated as matters for administrative rather than disciplinary action. I'm not sure what they could be charged with anyway; negligent performance of duty perhaps? But very hard to prove that in relation to leadership and maintenance of discipline. A court martial would be required if the punishment was to be discharge from service, and the MoD would then be faced with the prospect of the defendants' lawyer painting the bleakest possible picture of Navy-wide morale in order to get them off the hook.
Administrative discharge, while possible, requires a paperwork trail of continued failing despite counselling; using it on "strike one" would not stand up to a challenge under employment law.
The ratings' sackings are an inevitable consequence under Service law of their having failed drug testing. The officers' (consensual) sexual dalliances and poor leadership seem to have been treated as matters for administrative rather than disciplinary action. I'm not sure what they could be charged with anyway; negligent performance of duty perhaps? But very hard to prove that in relation to leadership and maintenance of discipline. A court martial would be required if the punishment was to be discharge from service, and the MoD would then be faced with the prospect of the defendants' lawyer painting the bleakest possible picture of Navy-wide morale in order to get them off the hook.
Administrative discharge, while possible, requires a paperwork trail of continued failing despite counselling; using it on "strike one" would not stand up to a challenge under employment law.
Nigerian In Law
Trim Stab,
I'm with you; apart from the likely internal gnashing of teeth over the loss of a Perisher course graduate on a Trident submarine (if he has any sense he'll resign anyway, his career is over after all), this only serves to perpetuate the long held suspicion that there was and still is one law for officers and one for ORs.
Such a policy, whether true or not, hardly fits the modern perception of the Forces the Government want to convey.
NEO
I'm with you; apart from the likely internal gnashing of teeth over the loss of a Perisher course graduate on a Trident submarine (if he has any sense he'll resign anyway, his career is over after all), this only serves to perpetuate the long held suspicion that there was and still is one law for officers and one for ORs.
Such a policy, whether true or not, hardly fits the modern perception of the Forces the Government want to convey.
NEO
Trim Stab,
The ratings' sackings are an inevitable consequence under Service law of their having failed drug testing. The officers' (consensual) sexual dalliances and poor leadership seem to have been treated as matters for administrative rather than disciplinary action. I'm not sure what they could be charged with anyway; negligent performance of duty perhaps? But very hard to prove that in relation to leadership and maintenance of discipline. A court martial would be required if the punishment was to be discharge from service, and the MoD would then be faced with the prospect of the defendants' lawyer painting the bleakest possible picture of Navy-wide morale in order to get them off the hook.
Administrative discharge, while possible, requires a paperwork trail of continued failing despite counselling; using it on "strike one" would not stand up to a challenge under employment law.
The ratings' sackings are an inevitable consequence under Service law of their having failed drug testing. The officers' (consensual) sexual dalliances and poor leadership seem to have been treated as matters for administrative rather than disciplinary action. I'm not sure what they could be charged with anyway; negligent performance of duty perhaps? But very hard to prove that in relation to leadership and maintenance of discipline. A court martial would be required if the punishment was to be discharge from service, and the MoD would then be faced with the prospect of the defendants' lawyer painting the bleakest possible picture of Navy-wide morale in order to get them off the hook.
Administrative discharge, while possible, requires a paperwork trail of continued failing despite counselling; using it on "strike one" would not stand up to a challenge under employment law.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The breech of the no touching reg should (in this case) result in the dismissal of all 4 Officers. Just my humble opinion.
In effect their careers are over, I would have thought? May as well resign and make the best of their time cutting out a new career in civvy street. As for the ratings, discharged as services no longer required, no criminal conviction, probably have quite technical backgrounds and training so fairly employable.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,819
Received 2,799 Likes
on
1,192 Posts
It's those that remain I feel sorry for, when we had some lineys done for drugs we were all subjected to reruns of those damned boring drugs films they used to show.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: s e england
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nelson may have been something of a 'ladies man' but don't think he was ever accused of
do so on board of his ship, nor with a fellow officer. Have no idea what any of them were thinking, as a submarine allows absolutely no privacy whatever, the no touching and no drugs rules are well publicised, so that they must have known they would never get away with it.
do so on board of his ship, nor with a fellow officer. Have no idea what any of them were thinking, as a submarine allows absolutely no privacy whatever, the no touching and no drugs rules are well publicised, so that they must have known they would never get away with it.
During the late 60's early 70's I knew of a couple of U.T. RAF Officers at University who were "picked up" for experimenting with soft drugs. Reason prevailed and they then went on to productive R.A,F. Service , one with an extremely sensitive career profile.
Myself,as an RAF Permanently Commissioned University Air Squadron member, never participated , but sitting through and restraining the nursing of a screaming student coming down from a bad LSD trip was a salutary lesson.
Myself,as an RAF Permanently Commissioned University Air Squadron member, never participated , but sitting through and restraining the nursing of a screaming student coming down from a bad LSD trip was a salutary lesson.
Last edited by Haraka; 29th Oct 2017 at 18:51.
Haraka, I never heard about that when we were on the same UAS?
But I do recall an allegation that one of our student pilots had been 'higher' in a Chipmunk than anyone else...
J*** P*****??
But I do recall an allegation that one of our student pilots had been 'higher' in a Chipmunk than anyone else...
J*** P*****??
