Mustard gas found at Woodhall Spa, two in hospital
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Went and double checked it's insoluble if you Google fishermen mustard gas you will see a fairly steady problem with the stuff.
You might find this interesting.
https://www.ospar.org/work-areas/eiha/munitions
You might find this interesting.
https://www.ospar.org/work-areas/eiha/munitions
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Woodhall Spa pre-Arnhem
PN: as a one-time resident of W Spa, I remember that most or all of the troops billeted there were said to be Polish, whisked away for Op Market Garden. Spaniel and I would run almost every evening in the Roughton and Ostler woods.
The foundations of the camp buildings were easily identified although the trees were well grown. In those days, the early 1970s, there was a large and well found Polish ex-servicemens club at the bottom of Canwick Hill.
The foundations of the camp buildings were easily identified although the trees were well grown. In those days, the early 1970s, there was a large and well found Polish ex-servicemens club at the bottom of Canwick Hill.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ris, true. Ostlers was RAF with bomb stores and some dispersal. Roughton was also used post Arnhem. Town woods also has foundations along the main path.
When we walked Roughton, on the roadside wood was a lot of asbestos roofing material. In the wilder part nearer the cemetery there were drains and dug outs of some sort. Deeper in we're the 4 brick bunkers I mentioned. Much is covered in dense secondary growth with bracken. That would be a nightmare to search. They are using radar.
When we walked Roughton, on the roadside wood was a lot of asbestos roofing material. In the wilder part nearer the cemetery there were drains and dug outs of some sort. Deeper in we're the 4 brick bunkers I mentioned. Much is covered in dense secondary growth with bracken. That would be a nightmare to search. They are using radar.
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I have followed this from a distance and feel the munitions found are probably WW1 and maybe mortar shells from the few pictures seen.I am fascinated by the post of Danny42C who may be interested in this link https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...e-ted-howe.htm
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ColinB (#44),
What a story ! (thanks for the link to it) Never knew there were so many mustard storage sites in UK: all we knew was "Porton Down" - but the mere mention of that dread name would open many doors.
1340 (Special Duties) Flight's brief was simple: do everything asked of you by the CDRE (in the person of their Liaison Officer, a Wg Cdr Edmondes, who was not my Boss - that was the SASO of 225 Group in Bangalore). We never handled any gas bombs, only the 65lb (about 4-gall) rectangular tins carried internally, which burst open on impact on land or water; or spray tanks, one on each wing station.
Anyway, if you go to the "Pilot's Brevet" Thread, Page 152, #3036, I Post the first item of an account of my interesting last year of war service. And what was CDRE ? No, not "The Camel Drivers Recruiting Establishment" !
and continues to the early 1946 end on Page 162, #3227.
Your: ..."Meanwhile we sat in a blue dimly lit room with a hessian covered coffin"... awakens a painful memory (Page 197, #3939 - "Danny has a Night to Forget on British Rail").
Danny.
What a story ! (thanks for the link to it) Never knew there were so many mustard storage sites in UK: all we knew was "Porton Down" - but the mere mention of that dread name would open many doors.
1340 (Special Duties) Flight's brief was simple: do everything asked of you by the CDRE (in the person of their Liaison Officer, a Wg Cdr Edmondes, who was not my Boss - that was the SASO of 225 Group in Bangalore). We never handled any gas bombs, only the 65lb (about 4-gall) rectangular tins carried internally, which burst open on impact on land or water; or spray tanks, one on each wing station.
Anyway, if you go to the "Pilot's Brevet" Thread, Page 152, #3036, I Post the first item of an account of my interesting last year of war service. And what was CDRE ? No, not "The Camel Drivers Recruiting Establishment" !
and continues to the early 1946 end on Page 162, #3227.
Your: ..."Meanwhile we sat in a blue dimly lit room with a hessian covered coffin"... awakens a painful memory (Page 197, #3939 - "Danny has a Night to Forget on British Rail").
Danny.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Colin, the canisters we saw on TV yesterday were not the classic bomb or shell shaped but more 'tin' shaped, ie flat at both ends with a slight protrusion at one end like a striker and parallel sides. They had various colour bands including red and yellow. EODIC must have some idea of the markings and canister origin. The image showed they were 225 mm high and 95 mm wide.
There is one image showing a set of fins but I don't know if this is one of the Woodhall ones.
There is one image showing a set of fins but I don't know if this is one of the Woodhall ones.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 13th Oct 2017 at 21:22.
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I have followed this from a distance and feel the munitions found are probably WW1 and maybe mortar shells from the few pictures seen.I am fascinated by the post of Danny42C who may be interested in this link https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...e-ted-howe.htm
PN, my money is still on the 6lb Ground Bomb, the dimensions and description sound about right. Not an aerial bomb, but placed on the ground and light the safety fuze. Not sure about the colour markings but EODTIC will have all you need to know.
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I do not know specifically which munition it was but all is not lost. I find the following link is the most comprehensive source I know of. Best of luck with it.https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...al_Weapons.pdf
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Sorry, I meant the Indian dimension towards the end (did you read all of it?). Assorted junglie MUs, and your brief work with CBRE Far East.
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I tend to agree that they are probably 6 pound ground bombs as described herehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb,_ground,_6_lb
This configuration would have contained about 2 pints of Pyro mustard gas
but there were many configurations including training pieces which could have been filled with 60% sump oil and 40% treated water or 100% used sump oil or 80% sump oil and 20% kerosene.
A full description can be found on pages 486/487 of Geoff Plunkett's definitive book Chemical Warfare in Australia.
This configuration would have contained about 2 pints of Pyro mustard gas
but there were many configurations including training pieces which could have been filled with 60% sump oil and 40% treated water or 100% used sump oil or 80% sump oil and 20% kerosene.
A full description can be found on pages 486/487 of Geoff Plunkett's definitive book Chemical Warfare in Australia.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As a ground bomb, would it be WW1 for trench release or WW2 GHQ/Resistance hide?
Edit: having read the link - 1940 pamphlet - would fit with Home Guard or
GHQ troops.
The yellow and red bands were used for Y2, Y4, Y6 which was viscous mustard and monochlorobenzine (sic?) Mustard. Very nasty.
Edit: having read the link - 1940 pamphlet - would fit with Home Guard or
GHQ troops.
The yellow and red bands were used for Y2, Y4, Y6 which was viscous mustard and monochlorobenzine (sic?) Mustard. Very nasty.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 14th Oct 2017 at 21:26.
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MPN11 (#51),
Sorry - have been too lazy to pick up ColinB's Link <https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...al_Weapons.pdf>
Done so now and preparing comment.
Thanks for the Steer !
Danny.
Sorry - have been too lazy to pick up ColinB's Link <https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...al_Weapons.pdf>
Done so now and preparing comment.
Thanks for the Steer !
Danny.
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Mustard Gas Found at Woodhall Spa.
ColinB (#50). (Link) and MPN11,
<https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...al_Weapons.pdf>
U.S, Army
Chemical Materiel Restriction Agency
Old Chemical Weapons - Munitions Specifications Report
.............................................COMMENT
............................................._________
..."In the air inlet and in the emission assemblies is fitted the operating mechanism. Thisconsists essentially of a Bakelite sealing disk in each assembly, to which is attachedan electric detonator. These detonators are connected to the aircraft electric current"...
Our Spray Tanks differed from those illustrated here, but the mustard release mechanism was the same.
..................................................1-39
Aerial Spray Tank Mk 4
Figure 1.3.12-1. Aerial Spray Tank, SCI (Smoke Curtain-installation) MK IV (F{ef. 4)
..................................................1-41
Figure 1.3.12-2. Aerial Spray Tank, SCI (Smoke Curtain-installation) MK V (Ref. 4) -
..................................................1-42
Construction:
..."Main bc~dy: light sheet metal with corrugated strengtheners"...
Similar to our 65lb cans ?
..................................................1-46
Figure l.3.14-l. Bomb, Aircraft, L.C.65 pound
.................................................1-48
Continued to 1-65 (end of British munitions) and to 5-115 (end of American munitions) Could not find any reference to CDRE activities in Cannanore.
............................................................ ..................
Entries in my Log:
(Kumbla and Porkal were the two CDRE Trials Ranges, on the coast approx 40 mi N.pf Cannanore).
May 12 1945 12x65lb at Porkal... These would be the "tins" carried internally.
......26 42x4lb at Kumbla (4,000 ft)................No idea.
Oct .11 Low Level Spray Porkal & photo.
A copy of the original photo is in my log, but I've not the skill to reproduce it here. - but it has widely been circulated. I'm flying my favourite FB986 (a Mk.III)
......30 Low Level Spray Porkal
Feb 14 1946 Camera Obscura "Chedlets"
So called from their shape, which resembled the well known segmented packs of cheese.
... !4 " ".............................(two trips that day
... 15 " "
....18 " "
....18 " "........................................."
....26................................... Dumping 500lb Mustard Clusters 0.30 . .............................'..............duration. No idea, sounds unpleasant.
....27
............................................................ ........" "
In 30 min, a VV at 150 mph would travel 75 miles, so 37.5 miles out to sea from our strip on the Malabar Coast to the drop spot (from 1500 ft).
In addition, I did another 20 unspecified "Trials" Flights to Porkal and Kumbla in my log, and I had two other pilots on the job at the same time: they would do as much as I (or probably more - or where's the point in being "Boss" ?)
Sorry, that's all I can remember, and, as those who've followed all my stories from the beginning will recall, I had other things on my mind in the early part of the tale
Danny.
<https://rhydymwynvalleyhistory.co.uk...al_Weapons.pdf>
U.S, Army
Chemical Materiel Restriction Agency
Old Chemical Weapons - Munitions Specifications Report
.............................................COMMENT
............................................._________
..."In the air inlet and in the emission assemblies is fitted the operating mechanism. Thisconsists essentially of a Bakelite sealing disk in each assembly, to which is attachedan electric detonator. These detonators are connected to the aircraft electric current"...
Our Spray Tanks differed from those illustrated here, but the mustard release mechanism was the same.
..................................................1-39
Aerial Spray Tank Mk 4
Figure 1.3.12-1. Aerial Spray Tank, SCI (Smoke Curtain-installation) MK IV (F{ef. 4)
..................................................1-41
Figure 1.3.12-2. Aerial Spray Tank, SCI (Smoke Curtain-installation) MK V (Ref. 4) -
..................................................1-42
Construction:
..."Main bc~dy: light sheet metal with corrugated strengtheners"...
Similar to our 65lb cans ?
..................................................1-46
Figure l.3.14-l. Bomb, Aircraft, L.C.65 pound
.................................................1-48
Continued to 1-65 (end of British munitions) and to 5-115 (end of American munitions) Could not find any reference to CDRE activities in Cannanore.
............................................................ ..................
Entries in my Log:
(Kumbla and Porkal were the two CDRE Trials Ranges, on the coast approx 40 mi N.pf Cannanore).
May 12 1945 12x65lb at Porkal... These would be the "tins" carried internally.
......26 42x4lb at Kumbla (4,000 ft)................No idea.
Oct .11 Low Level Spray Porkal & photo.
A copy of the original photo is in my log, but I've not the skill to reproduce it here. - but it has widely been circulated. I'm flying my favourite FB986 (a Mk.III)
......30 Low Level Spray Porkal
Feb 14 1946 Camera Obscura "Chedlets"
So called from their shape, which resembled the well known segmented packs of cheese.
... !4 " ".............................(two trips that day
... 15 " "
....18 " "
....18 " "........................................."
....26................................... Dumping 500lb Mustard Clusters 0.30 . .............................'..............duration. No idea, sounds unpleasant.
....27
............................................................ ........" "
In 30 min, a VV at 150 mph would travel 75 miles, so 37.5 miles out to sea from our strip on the Malabar Coast to the drop spot (from 1500 ft).
In addition, I did another 20 unspecified "Trials" Flights to Porkal and Kumbla in my log, and I had two other pilots on the job at the same time: they would do as much as I (or probably more - or where's the point in being "Boss" ?)
Sorry, that's all I can remember, and, as those who've followed all my stories from the beginning will recall, I had other things on my mind in the early part of the tale
Danny.
During clearance of a pot a ground bomb leaked mustard onto the bucket of the JCB, we only noticed when it combusted spontaneously. It was a very small amount and quickly burned out. Although the bomb had been CAM'd and appeared clean, we found a corroded weak spot had given way allowing a small leak. We sealed the leak with plaster-of-paris bandages, double bagged the bomb and dispatched it to Porton Down to join the other CW awaiting disposal. Needless to say, the CAM was changed for another.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SB et al , the road in Woodhall is now open but the wood is still closed with security handed to a security contractor.
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Last edited by MPN11; 16th Oct 2017 at 09:01.
