So why are the Austrians ditching Typhoon?

[Wander00]

T28B -given the Austrian terrain, your last phrase is (IMHO) a peach!

[orca]

Would it be possible to query whether other operators are actually happy with Typhoon sustainment costs?

How about costs and timescales of updates?

I only ask because I’ve heard them described as ‘horrendous’. Not by anyone who would know - just Air Cap and DE&S folk.

I agree the Tranche 1 is one of the most capable Control of the Air platforms around - easily within the top 20 or so.

[PDR1]

Originally Posted by Mil-26Man

If the Su-27 was defecting, why would you need 'overmatch'? Asking for a friend.

Presumably because some of his/her former colleagues might be chasing in non-defecting Su27s?

Also, odd that a presumably Russian defecting Su-27 would fly all the way to Austria before landing.

Maybe the pilot has a craving for sachetorte, coffee and a bag of Mozart's Balls...

PDR

[Heathrow Harry]

Opera dear boy, opera ...........

[Coochycool]

Why don't they just spread the risk and liability by sharing Q with a friendly neighbour?

Much as I believe several other European nations already do.

Germany being the obvious partner.

[k3k3]

Austria is bound by treaty to be neutral. The Soviets insisted that Austria agree to permanent neutrality as part of the Austrian State Treaty before they would consider leaving the country. Austria was under control and occupation by the four victorious powers until 1955.

[GlobalNav]

To whom is Austria legally bound by that treaty, now that the Soviet Union no longer exists?

[TEEEJ]

Originally Posted by GlobalNav

To whom is Austria legally bound by that treaty, now that the Soviet Union no longer exists?

Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, Russia urged Austria to agree to a new accord on neutrality. But Austria declined. Russian Foreign Minister Yevgeni Primakov, on a visit to Vienna in 1996, said Russia would not like to see Austria join NATO. But Primakov said at the time neutrality was "Austria's own choice."

https://www.rferl.org/a/1095695.html

[ORAC]

Austria confirms Indonesia wants to buy its Eurofighters ? Alert 5

Austria confirms Indonesia wants to buy its Eurofighters

[msbbarratt]

Originally Posted by orca

Would it be possible to query whether other operators are actually happy with Typhoon sustainment costs?

How about costs and timescales of updates?

I only ask because I’ve heard them described as ‘horrendous’. Not by anyone who would know - just Air Cap and DE&S folk.

I agree the Tranche 1 is one of the most capable Control of the Air platforms around - easily within the top 20 or so.

Just counting: ah, maybe. I was wondering if the "top 20" might reach back as far as the Spitfire...

Whilst not being aware of the specifics of contracts between DE&S and parts suppliers, I wouldn't mind betting (apologies if this is wrong) that it's lots of little contracts rather than long term, large ones. Short term contracts are ferociously expensive because no business can afford to price one up on the assumption that it'll lead to another contract afterwards. What you're in effect buying is the company's commitment to hold off looking for long term, profitable work on other contracts for a year or so. Companies have to deal with lost opportunity costs, and that gets passed on.

If long term contracts are issued with terms setting out periodic reviews, then that gives businesses an incentive to put in a long term competitive price.

[Willard Whyte]

And yet no firm sign of a replacement. According to the internet anyway!

[Ripton]

Originally Posted by Willard Whyte

And yet no firm sign of a replacement. According to the internet anyway!

Perhaps by advertising that they will be unable to chase defecting SU-27s they hope to gain a fleet of free issue SU-27s.

[etudiant]

Wonder whether they would work for Ireland?

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Willard Whyte

And yet no firm sign of a replacement. According to the internet anyway!

I'm still amazed that they didn't buy Gripen's, to replace their Draken's, given that they've had an almost continuous relationship with Saab since the inception of the post-war Austrian Airforce in 1955, first with a buy of refurbed J29's, then the Saab 105 buy, and then the refurbed Draken's.

[chopper2004]

Only fortnight ago, Viemna decided to keep Typhoon Force, retire the Saab 105 with the intent of outsourcing FJ flying Training abroad...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...tire-saab-105s

Even though I live over there 1/3 of the year finally made it to Zeltweg so pleasure of seeing their Tiffy display last year (my photos below).











and my photos of their Saab 105 performing too back in September











And withheld Indonesians offering to buy them off ...begs a lot of questions .

Also what’s with Indonesian F-16 Block 32 and Sukhoi SU-30 Fleet??

cheers

[chopper2004]

Couple of slight drifts here ...at mo there’s the light utility helicopter replacement for the Legacy Alouettes and Kiowa in the Bundesheer fleet. Airbus, Bell and Leonardo are contenders. However Airbus felt that they were not getting the whole bid info but fed scraps / pushed aside, wondering if the government wanting revenge for the Typhoon issues at the beginning.

Also on a Humorous note if the Typhoons entered service few years earlier ..wonder if they able to engage Holloman‘s finest

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...trian-airspace

cheers

[TBM-Legend]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Austria confirms Indonesia wants to buy its Eurofighters ? Alert 5

Austria confirms Indonesia wants to buy its Eurofighters

Just what Indonesia needs, another type from yet another supplier base.

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by TBM-Legend

Just what Indonesia needs, another type from yet another supplier base.

Is the Russian supply chain crap ....with the Su27/30 or US with the F-16?

https://www.scramble.nl/orbats/indonesia/airforce

Or is it the Indonesians reckon the Typhoon is better than SU-27/30.

cheers

[Hot 'n' High]

Originally Posted by msbbarratt

................. Whilst not being aware of the specifics of contracts between DE&S and parts suppliers, I wouldn't mind betting (apologies if this is wrong) that it's lots of little contracts rather than long term, large ones. .........

Hi msbbarratt, FWIW, as part of the attempted support transformation in the UK MoD Air Sector over the past 15 years or so, Typhoon comes under TyTAN https://www.baesystems.com/en/produc...-typhoon-fleet . Others were/are SKIOS (Sea King), IMOS (Merlin), ATTAC (Tornado) and Apache IOS (for, erm, Apache!). Not sure about the other Fleets as these are the ones I have had direct dealings with over the years. It should be noted that TyTAN is aimed at saving support costs with a view to ploughing those savings back into capability enhancements for the UK jets. So TyTAN is more about shifting existing sums of money (present/planned) from one pot to another but the overall result is the same - support costs down, except that, here, Industry hopes for no net loss of income, just that the income streams they receive from the MoD (Support vs Capability enhancements) shift from the former into the latter. A simplified description of course!!!

Has the Integrated Operational Support (IOS) model, launched by SKIOS in the mid-2000's, been a success in driving down through life support costs and providing improved availability? I've not seen the sums so I'll leave that to others to comment on. What has not changed are the problems/issues the Primes have with either their suppliers (generally solved by passing cost and risk on to them I suspect) or the bigger issues which surround multi-national programmes such as Typhoon which bring their own international management/development priorities/issues which, of course = extra cost/time. Then there's continually changing "Defence Requirements" - a subject with it's own Thread on PPRuNe! Again, a simplified overview of the issues!

Re Austria, with such a small fleet, it's hard to make your voice heard over the calls on Industry resources made by bigger customers - and that's before there are any political games within Austria itself.

Out that game now so others will know more. Cheers, H 'n' H

[golfbananajam]

Originally Posted by PDR1

Maybe the pilot has a craving for sachetorte, coffee and a bag of Mozart's Balls...
PDR

And who would blame them, though I guess they could also be on the hunt for Salzburger Nockerl.