Two A-10s & one other aircraft lost out of Nellis

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Is the reported loss of the two A-10s connected?

There is no suggestion that the two are connected.

[SpazSinbad]

Fatal Nevada Crash Involved Foreign Aircraft Type 11 Sep 2017 Guy Norris

"...Sources indicate Schultz was the Red Hats squadron commander at the time of his death. The Red Hats became an unnumbered unit within the Detachment 3, AFTC test wing after the 413th flight test squadron (formerly 6513th test squadron) was deactivated in 2004. Over recent years the unit has operated a variety of Russian-developed combat types, including the MiG-29 and several Sukhoi-developed models such as the Su-27P, one of which was recently observed flying in the vicinity...." Fatal Nevada Crash Involved Foreign Aircraft Type | Defense content from Aviation Week

[Jackonicko]

I'm pretty reliably informed that (unusually) Av Week got this wrong, and that Schultz was not a Red Hat or Red Eagle, and that the aircraft involved was not a MiG or a Sukhoi.

[unmanned_droid]

Jacko, no offence but hmmmm

[Jackonicko]

No offence taken. I believe the source of the Av Week story was P**** M*****, who has said it's speculation.

[Airbubba]

Bevo here is a former skipper of the Red Hats, he's kindly nudged some of my speculation about earlier black work mishaps in the right direction.

Originally Posted by West Coast

How long did it take before the truth was known on the type of aircraft Gen Bond was flying?

Watch this space is a decade or so for an update.

Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy

The Air Force authorised a 'leak' that it was a MiG-23 within weeks of Bond's death.

And, over three decades later it is thought that the leak about General Bond's MiG-23 crash was put out when rumors of his earlier ride in a still unacknowledged F-117 started to emerge.

Here's a contemporary 1984 news report on speculation surrounding General Bond's mishap:

The Pentagon has declined to comment officially on the accident, other than to say that the victim, Lieut. Gen. Robert M. Bond, vice commander of the Air Force Systems Command, was killed while flying ''an Air Force specially modified test craft.''

The accident occurred on the Nellis Air Force Range, part of a wasteland that also encompasses the Government's underground nuclear testing field. It is the headquarters for a number of secret programs. One is the Stealth project, which seeks to develop materials and shapes that will make weapons less detectable by hostile radar.

Weapons Acquired and Tested

Pentagon sources initially denied news reports that General Bond, who was 54 years old, was flying a plane involved in the Stealth project. The Air Force is known to be developing designs for a radar-evading strategic bomber and a jet fighter, but no complete models are thought to exist yet.

Nellis is also the home of a longstanding program to evaluate Soviet weapons acquired covertly or on the world arms market. Knowledgeable sources in Congress, the Defense Department and the military industry said all the military services maintained projects to test such weaponry. After the 1967 war between Israel and Egypt, there was a huge influx of Soviet arms for testing purposes.

GENERAL KILLED IN NEVADA CRASH FLEW SOVIET JET - NYTimes.com

The Have Blue stealth prototypes had been flying since 1977 when this article was written.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Originally Posted by Airbubba

And, over three decades later it is thought that the leak about General Bond's MiG-23 crash was put out when rumors of his earlier ride in a still unacknowledged F-117 started to emerge.

You've lost me.

You said "come back in a decade" to find out what happened.

I said, "no one had to wait a decade for the a/c Bond was flying to be revealed".

The Las Vegas Journal (?) ran a story about Bond being killed in a stealth fighter the day after his death was announced. it isn't "thought" that this prompted the leak, it is known that it did.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Jacko

Without confirming your reference to who you think AvWeek's source is, I know he/she does not want to be identified in public.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Originally Posted by Airbubba

The Have Blue stealth prototypes had been flying since 1977 when this article was written.

No they hadn't. HAVE BLUE flew between '77 and '78. SENIOR TREND entered service in 1983. Bond was killed in April 1984.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy

You've lost me.

You said "come back in a decade" to find out what happened.

I said, "no one had to wait a decade for the a/c Bond was flying to be revealed".

Huh, I never said come back in a decade, I think you are getting confused again.

[West Coast]

It was me, and Ewan, you take things far too seriously.

[chopper2004]

RIP 'Doc'

Has anyone seen this off the aviationist site?

https://theaviationist.com/2017/09/0...some-theories/

cheers

[Davef68]

The last manned 'black' program to be revealed to the public was the Bird of Prey in 2002 (last flew 1999). No-one surely believes there haven't been others since then.

[Jackonicko]

Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy

Jacko

Without confirming your reference to who you think AvWeek's source is, I know he/she does not want to be identified in public.

Ever helpful, me.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Originally Posted by Airbubba

Huh, I never said come back in a decade, I think you are getting confused again.

My bad, Airbubba. Now I see it

[sandiego89]

Originally Posted by chopper2004

RIP 'Doc'

Has anyone seen this off the aviationist site?

https://theaviationist.com/2017/09/0...some-theories/

cheers

So the Aviationist surmises 4-5 possibilities:
- Su-27 specifically, or foreign
- F-117
- B-21
- Black program, such as the spotted "boomerang"


The article further states that a true black program may be unlikely to fly during daylight (crash time @6pm local), but some indeed did.


I tend to lean foreign or black. Seems too early for a B-21 technology demonstrator or prototype. A F-117 could be explained as a loss during flyable storage validation. Black and Foreign tend to stay pretty quiet. And yes as Dave68 suggests, there have likely been several other programs since Bird of Prey.

[OMG Itz Fulovstarz]

I know, another intrusion from the civil side, but thought you might want to read this:

Report Claims Famed Russian Test Pilot Warned USAF Pilot Before Fatal Crash Near Area 51 - The Drive

In case anyone is fluent, the original piece is here:-

https://govoritmoskva.ru/news/134796/

Have no prior knowledge of Radio Moscow, so not sure how reliable they are, or whether they deal with black propaganda/alternative facts.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

You Tube

[sandiego89]

Thank you for sharing that Ewan, seems like a very plausible explanation about what happened to Doc Shultz in the Su-27 out at Area 51. I know the engineers and riggers do their very best to keep those foreign assets flying with scarce resources, references and spare parts. Salute to those that have maintained and strapped themselves to Soviet era equipment over the decades. Fascinating history.