RPAS Gongs
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,864
Received 2,816 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
By your definition then anyone taking off in a manned aircraft anywhere deserves a medal...I think not.
That is unworthy of you.
As a minimum, RAF RPAS pilots must pass EFT (a bespoke course with more hours and skills than the current EFT).
Perhaps we should be looking at a "significant contribution to ops" medal? These guys & girls have done more than probably any other group to forward the operational outcomes of the war in Syria & Iraq. The fact that they don't get officially recognised for their outstanding and immensely difficult and personally onerous task is a disgrace.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,864
Received 2,816 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
That is unworthy of you.
As a minimum, RAF RPAS pilots must pass EFT (a bespoke course with more hours and skills than the current EFT).
Perhaps we should be looking at a "significant contribution to ops" medal? These guys & girls have done more than probably any other group to forward the operational outcomes of the war in Syria & Iraq. The fact that they don't get officially recognised for their outstanding and immensely difficult and personally onerous task is a disgrace.
As a minimum, RAF RPAS pilots must pass EFT (a bespoke course with more hours and skills than the current EFT).
Perhaps we should be looking at a "significant contribution to ops" medal? These guys & girls have done more than probably any other group to forward the operational outcomes of the war in Syria & Iraq. The fact that they don't get officially recognised for their outstanding and immensely difficult and personally onerous task is a disgrace.
These guys & girls have done more than probably any other group to forward the operational outcomes of the war in Syria & Iraq. The fact that they don't get officially recognised for their outstanding and immensely difficult and personally onerous task is a disgrace.
Vietnam Medals
In reply to the observation made by Nutloose in post 102 it might help if I described in brief what awards with 'Vietnam' in the title were available to ANZAC forces in the period 1964 to 1974 (or thereabouts).
The Vietnam Medal (VM) was awarded under the Imperial Honours System, which is why as a British Imperial Award the medal has on its obverse the image of The Queen as she appears on the Coronation Medal. It was awarded to members of the Australian and New Zealand Armed Forces who between 29 May 1964 and 27 January 1973 served one or more days on the posted strength of a Unit or formation in Vietnam, or 28 days in ships or craft in inland waters off the coast. For example, the crews of the RAAF Caribou detachment based at Vung Tau qualified for the VM.
The Vietnam Logistic and Support Medal (VLSM) was established in February 1993 in order to extend recognition to persons who rendered service in support of the Australian Armed Forces (AAF) in Vietnam during the same period as for the VM but who did not qualify for the latter. Although by 1993 Australia (and New Zealand) were no longer parties to the Imperial Honours System, The Queen by an Order in Council gave permission for the medal that formed part of the VM to be used also for the VLSM.
The VLSM is/was awarded to persons serving in the AAF or who were integrated with the AAF: those who had been awarded the VM were ineligible for the VLSM, i.e. no-one could have both. Qualification for the VLSM included: membership of the crew of a ship or aircraft operating in support of the AAF; being attached to a unit or organisation operating in support of the AAF; or attached to or serving with a unit of the AAF or allied forces as an observer. For example the crews of RAAF Hercules that operated into and within Vietnam qualified for the VLSM. [Later, eligibility for the VLSM was extended to include members of the RAAF serving at Ubon in NE Thailand where they provided air and airfield defence for allied forces operating of there, i.e. the crews of RAAF F86 Sabres and ground forces protecting operations by USAF Phantoms and Jolly Green Giants, even though many of the former may never have set foot in Vietnam.]
Both the VM and the VLSM are accorded the status of War Medals.
The VLSM comprises the same (round) medal as the VM but differs first in that the supporter is plain, not embossed, and second that the ribbons are different. Both incorporate in the middle the canary yellow divided by three vertical red stripes of the flag of the Republic of Vietnam. The yellow part of the VM ribbon is flanked by red (for the Australian Army) on either side, with dark blue for the RAN on the far left (as you view it) and light blue for the RAAF on the far right. The VLSM has dark blue adjacent to the yellow part on the left, with red on its left, whilst on the right of the yellow central band lies a strip of brown (for the waters of the coastal and inland waterways) with light blue on its right. Both are quite colourful!
To any of my onetime colleagues in the RAAF who read this post, please excuse the abbreviated background as I have described it, for I know well that there is much more to this than I have been able to set down here. But readers will get the general picture.
To return to the thread, it occurs to me that having the same round medal but slightly different ribbons might answer the question as to how to award a medal to UK service personnel involved in operations where some are in theatre and others are outside. Those risking their lives and encountering rigour could have their medal suspended by an appropriate ribbon, whilst those engaged in qualifying support activities could have the same medal but with a ribbon in which the colours would be arranged differently. This might be an alternative solution to having a rosette aka the South Atlantic Medal (Falklands).
In reply to the observation made by Nutloose in post 102 it might help if I described in brief what awards with 'Vietnam' in the title were available to ANZAC forces in the period 1964 to 1974 (or thereabouts).
The Vietnam Medal (VM) was awarded under the Imperial Honours System, which is why as a British Imperial Award the medal has on its obverse the image of The Queen as she appears on the Coronation Medal. It was awarded to members of the Australian and New Zealand Armed Forces who between 29 May 1964 and 27 January 1973 served one or more days on the posted strength of a Unit or formation in Vietnam, or 28 days in ships or craft in inland waters off the coast. For example, the crews of the RAAF Caribou detachment based at Vung Tau qualified for the VM.
The Vietnam Logistic and Support Medal (VLSM) was established in February 1993 in order to extend recognition to persons who rendered service in support of the Australian Armed Forces (AAF) in Vietnam during the same period as for the VM but who did not qualify for the latter. Although by 1993 Australia (and New Zealand) were no longer parties to the Imperial Honours System, The Queen by an Order in Council gave permission for the medal that formed part of the VM to be used also for the VLSM.
The VLSM is/was awarded to persons serving in the AAF or who were integrated with the AAF: those who had been awarded the VM were ineligible for the VLSM, i.e. no-one could have both. Qualification for the VLSM included: membership of the crew of a ship or aircraft operating in support of the AAF; being attached to a unit or organisation operating in support of the AAF; or attached to or serving with a unit of the AAF or allied forces as an observer. For example the crews of RAAF Hercules that operated into and within Vietnam qualified for the VLSM. [Later, eligibility for the VLSM was extended to include members of the RAAF serving at Ubon in NE Thailand where they provided air and airfield defence for allied forces operating of there, i.e. the crews of RAAF F86 Sabres and ground forces protecting operations by USAF Phantoms and Jolly Green Giants, even though many of the former may never have set foot in Vietnam.]
Both the VM and the VLSM are accorded the status of War Medals.
The VLSM comprises the same (round) medal as the VM but differs first in that the supporter is plain, not embossed, and second that the ribbons are different. Both incorporate in the middle the canary yellow divided by three vertical red stripes of the flag of the Republic of Vietnam. The yellow part of the VM ribbon is flanked by red (for the Australian Army) on either side, with dark blue for the RAN on the far left (as you view it) and light blue for the RAAF on the far right. The VLSM has dark blue adjacent to the yellow part on the left, with red on its left, whilst on the right of the yellow central band lies a strip of brown (for the waters of the coastal and inland waterways) with light blue on its right. Both are quite colourful!
To any of my onetime colleagues in the RAAF who read this post, please excuse the abbreviated background as I have described it, for I know well that there is much more to this than I have been able to set down here. But readers will get the general picture.
To return to the thread, it occurs to me that having the same round medal but slightly different ribbons might answer the question as to how to award a medal to UK service personnel involved in operations where some are in theatre and others are outside. Those risking their lives and encountering rigour could have their medal suspended by an appropriate ribbon, whilst those engaged in qualifying support activities could have the same medal but with a ribbon in which the colours would be arranged differently. This might be an alternative solution to having a rosette aka the South Atlantic Medal (Falklands).
To return to the thread, it occurs to me that having the same round medal but slightly different ribbons might answer the question as to how to award a medal to UK service personnel involved in operations where some are in theatre and others are outside. Those risking their lives and encountering rigour could have their medal suspended by an appropriate ribbon, whilst those engaged in qualifying support activities could have the same medal but with a ribbon in which the colours would be arranged differently. This might be an alternative solution to having a rosette aka the South Atlantic Medal (Falklands).
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,864
Received 2,816 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
Another way to do it would be to issue another single medal specifically for RPA crews and staff, then simply add bars for regions as one does with the GSM.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yeovil, England
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a couple of thoughts about awards for fighting a computerised war on a TV screen.
With 126 confirmed kills, shot down 7 times, into the drink twice and E&E'd through France once (all CFE WW2 Europe) should I be entitled to a few gongs?
They could of course be awarded the appropriate theatre medal with a gold "W" on the ribbon to indicate Weapons, Air Launched via Telemetry
With 126 confirmed kills, shot down 7 times, into the drink twice and E&E'd through France once (all CFE WW2 Europe) should I be entitled to a few gongs?
They could of course be awarded the appropriate theatre medal with a gold "W" on the ribbon to indicate Weapons, Air Launched via Telemetry
appropriate theatre medal with a gold "W" on the ribbon to indicate Weapons, Air Launched via Telemetry
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,864
Received 2,816 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
Or something similar to this? 
Play Controller Enamel Pin Badge | Pin Badges | Soft Enamel Pin Badge ? Power Up Pins
The ribbon idea though you could replace the yellow of the desert if there is any present with green to signify out of theatre.
..
Play Controller Enamel Pin Badge | Pin Badges | Soft Enamel Pin Badge ? Power Up Pins
The ribbon idea though you could replace the yellow of the desert if there is any present with green to signify out of theatre.
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 26th Sep 2017 at 22:43.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,864
Received 2,816 Likes
on
1,200 Posts
Cool, but at least we would be operational AND working in theatre so to speak, not sitting at a desk beating it in front of a monitor 
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
On the subject of risk, I am aware of an RPA Driver, who is at risk, possibly more than in-theatre base wallahs, in a different way. If the address became publicly available the pilot and family would all be directly at risk.
This risk is personal in much the same way as the targets are personal, and not random as in a conventional aircraft attack.
This risk is personal in much the same way as the targets are personal, and not random as in a conventional aircraft attack.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 4 Civvy Street. Nowhere-near-a-base. The Shires.
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Indeed quite recently so called IS published the names and addresses of many US drone crews and declared a jihad on them, calling on their brethren to seek out and kill them wherever they were.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a tricky situation right enough.
On the subject of risk, I am aware of an RPA Driver, who is at risk, possibly more than in-theatre base wallahs, in a different way. If the address became publicly available the pilot and family would all be directly at risk.
This risk is personal in much the same way as the targets are personal, and not random as in a conventional aircraft attack.
This risk is personal in much the same way as the targets are personal, and not random as in a conventional aircraft attack.
Yet today we allow people who are blatant supporters of the "enemy" to have unfettered access, to observe people coming and going from our military bases, and also allow them to communicate what they see, to "head office" where the troops are operating. It's madness on a General Melchett scale.
The people working in the IED factory can't really stop the Reaper from seeing them and prosecuting the war effort. I'm sure they would like to. However... if it is fair game for our forces to follow their staff to and from work, and then know who to kill, why would they not do the same thing?
We can't send in people to openly live on the ground over there, taking notes and sending back intel. Why do we permit them to do so?
Since the world's "leaders" seem determined to prevent the establishment of an Islamic State, which seems odd, as it would give us a place to deport folk to, we need to just lock *them* up here, in the absence of a country to send them to.
*Them refers to people openly expressing any opinion contrary to that of HMG.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Sedition?
"The Treason Act 1351 is an Act of the Parliament of England which codified and curtailed the common law offence of treason. No new offences were created by the statute. It is one of the earliest English statutes still in force, although it has been very significantly amended."
"By 1965, capital punishment had been abolished for almost all crimes, but was still mandatory (unless the offender was pardoned or the sentence commuted) for high treason until 1998. By section 36 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 the maximum punishment for high treason became life imprisonment."
Instead of cobbling together new offences let us just stick with the original Act.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pontius, I fully agree.
Perhaps we should start with the Labour party and any Conservative MP not voting with the government on any issue.
If we can't do that, then where is the line to be drawn? Chowdray, Galloway, Abu Hamza, Corbyn?
When people stand up in the street and say that what HMG is doing is wrong, that is sometimes more than free speech. There is a grey area between being critical, and inciting violence.
In my view, those who incite violence ought to be removed from the freedom of speech arena. As should some others who may not incite violence in public, but that leads to a Pinochet style of running the country.
Either way, I think the current level of protection for HM Forces will need to be shown to be lacking before steps are taken. Just as we need people to die or be seriously injured before we get junctions re-profiled or speed cameras installed.
Perhaps we should start with the Labour party and any Conservative MP not voting with the government on any issue.
If we can't do that, then where is the line to be drawn? Chowdray, Galloway, Abu Hamza, Corbyn?
When people stand up in the street and say that what HMG is doing is wrong, that is sometimes more than free speech. There is a grey area between being critical, and inciting violence.
In my view, those who incite violence ought to be removed from the freedom of speech arena. As should some others who may not incite violence in public, but that leads to a Pinochet style of running the country.
Either way, I think the current level of protection for HM Forces will need to be shown to be lacking before steps are taken. Just as we need people to die or be seriously injured before we get junctions re-profiled or speed cameras installed.
In my IMHO the crews do deserve medals and awards ...no question about this.
In better news Waddo has hordes of the other ‘enthusiasts’ camped out at mo
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/anti...ampaign=social
In better news Waddo has hordes of the other ‘enthusiasts’ camped out at mo
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/anti...ampaign=social
