Falcons Jump Platform
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Falcons Jump Platform
I saw the Falcons earlier this year at Scarborough and Brize Norton, in both cases dropping from a Canadian registered Skyvan (Summit Air) that I believe was operating from Weston on the Green. I now see that they are using a Dornier 228 from the same organisation (C-FPSH) carrying the RAF and Falcons logos.
Since the 228 doesn't have a rear ramp, they are obviously jumping from the side door. I don't know to what extent the 228 was originally cleared for para dropping, if at all, but I doubt if the UK have done any trials.
It begs the question are UK service personnel jumping from a foreign registered aircraft that hasn't been cleared for such use - any UK service type would have to have an appropriate RTS clearance.
Can anyone correct me or offer an explanation, or are we heading to a sequel to the ETPS Yak debacle........
Since the 228 doesn't have a rear ramp, they are obviously jumping from the side door. I don't know to what extent the 228 was originally cleared for para dropping, if at all, but I doubt if the UK have done any trials.
It begs the question are UK service personnel jumping from a foreign registered aircraft that hasn't been cleared for such use - any UK service type would have to have an appropriate RTS clearance.
Can anyone correct me or offer an explanation, or are we heading to a sequel to the ETPS Yak debacle........
No doubt £££ has a lot to do with it, as well as a lack of availability of service aircraft (Back in the day they always borrowed a 115 Sqn Andover, but they have used a civillian Skyvan, C130 or Chinook for many years).
Their 2017 brochure mentions this, although they need to explain to their graphic artist the difference in Chinook length with and without rotors!
https://www.raf.mod.uk/falcons/rafcm...102BB96E82.pdf
The 228 has been used for civillian parachute operations for many years
Their 2017 brochure mentions this, although they need to explain to their graphic artist the difference in Chinook length with and without rotors!
https://www.raf.mod.uk/falcons/rafcm...102BB96E82.pdf
The 228 has been used for civillian parachute operations for many years
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Red Devils bought their own aircraft, a Dragon Rapids. Then Islanders, Cessna etc so using non-military assets has a precedent.
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Regulations
All the Falcons equipment including their accessories were governed by the Airborne Equipnent Release Certificate which was referenced in the RTS and accepted by the appropriate Duty Holder. Appendices described the particular aircraft conditions. Efforts were made to introduce a catch all to allow other aircraft to be used. Certainly Boscombe Down Q2 and JATDTU would be involved in evaluation and trials making recommendations that it was safe to jump from any platform.
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"My info may be out of date but back in the naughties I was instrumental in developing the regulatory process and documentation. Red Freds operated under BPA (British Parachute Association) rules. Their kit was all non military. I am not sure if they ever jumped "legally" from a service aircraft. Had they had an accident I am not sure if they ever addressed the "duty" issues. I am not saying that they were unprofessional."
Correct - they will jump from anything approved and available under BPA.
Correct - they will jump from anything approved and available under BPA.
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I am not suggesting for one minute this did not happen or was an unofficial drop. In my time looking after the books from 99 to 2011 there certainly wasn't any clearances in place. I adopted a shed load of SDs which were soon reviewed and subsumed into the MAR or withdrawn. Under DERA/ Q2 rules they were able to use non military rigs for CT. aircraft had to be assigned to Q2 also any troops temporarily detached to Q2. Then there was the issue of who was paying! My boss was very much against this. He went ape s#1t when I asked him to sign off a Trials Instruction listing every man and his dog from several formations. There was quite a lot of nashing of teeth the term Klingons entered the vocabulary. One of the heads of sheds was nicknamed Judith Chalmers of wish you were here fame. As always I came out the bad boy having been told to strike certain individuals and formations from the list or invite them or their COs to provide written justification as to why their contribution to a specific trial was essential, particularly since the work up involved a couple of weeks of CT. We just did not have enough trials parachutists and had to enlist the likes of the Falcs, the Freds, PTS, JATE and a host of other specialist outfits. Then to support this rag packers, and Oxy trained techs had to be hoovered up from all over the place. I have to report a good time was had by all particarly in the bars around Ridgecrest, El Centro and Yuma. One last hurrah I guess.
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I look back to the 80's when the Transport Support Squadrons were still the best flying club in the RAF and I was on a trials unit at Brize. Over Holtville one day after a comprehensive brief the "mixed sortie" launched. First up to 12000ft where the Falcs were despatched (requiring their own spotter training). Round again for the Freds who would go on the "Green On" quite happily. With the boot still open the U.S. Leap Frogs went on their own spot 10 seconds later, The green light still being on the loadmaster Mike M----n pointed to the trials boys pulling at 5000ft to go with their "new" canopies then finally 5miles up the range the "hop and pop" foursome departed on a hand signal. The 25000ft boys then went on the oxygen console. What Elf and Safety would say I do not know but when I jumped on "assisted free fall" I was not the only Nav on the aircraft, Your Honour.
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I look back to the 80's when the Transport Support Squadrons were still the best flying club in the RAF and I was on a trials unit at Brize. Over Holtville one day after a comprehensive brief the "mixed sortie" launched. First up to 12000ft where the Falcs were despatched (requiring their own spotter training). Round again for the Freds who would go on the "Green On" quite happily. With the boot still open the U.S. Leap Frogs went on their own spot 10 seconds later, The green light still being on the loadmaster Mike M----n pointed to the trials boys pulling at 5000ft to go with their "new" canopies then finally 5miles up the range the "hop and pop" foursome departed on a hand signal. The 25000ft boys then went on the oxygen console. What Elf and Safety would say I do not know but when I jumped on "assisted free fall" I was not the only Nav on the aircraft, Your Honour.
It was even difficult to get papa smurf out to the memorial at Hotville
Canopy Relative Work?
Back in the 70s and 80s the Red Devils performed for the Army Shows at Rushmoor Arena near Aldershot, and frequently jumped on to Queens Parade (the green area to which ksimboy refers) doing a lot of 'canopy relative' work. Stacks of three or more canopies with each parachutist sitting on the leading edge of the canopy below, and two (or more?) descending with their legs linked together, so their canopies formed one long high aspect ratio wing.
The Falcons, on the occasions I've seen them in the last few years, don't do canopy relative work. Don't they get enough time to practice it, or is it forbidden these days?
The Falcons, on the occasions I've seen them in the last few years, don't do canopy relative work. Don't they get enough time to practice it, or is it forbidden these days?
Have the Falcons jumped from the A400M yet?
If not, why not? The boss of Airbus was amongst those who did a jump from the A400M 7 years ago:
If not, why not? The boss of Airbus was amongst those who did a jump from the A400M 7 years ago:
But how are static line trials going on the A400? Last I heard they had trialled up to about 20man sticks - still way short of delivery target.
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C17
Ha Ha Beags, I thought exactly the same when a few weeks back the RAF farce book page was doing the same for the C17.
Is the hole big enough? Is there anything to trip over? Will any aerodynamic effects bring you into proximity with any bits of aircraft that can get knocked off or knock bits of the parachutist.
I recall Col Parkinson at the ABFOG at Boscombe in 2000 saying of the C17 that if the Brigade can't use it just paint them white and park them up at BZN. No overseas conflict or pressure at the time, just a shortage of K frames. No J at the time.
I guess the dents from the HUPRA Dummy got knocked out of the A400! So much for all the CFD work
Is the hole big enough? Is there anything to trip over? Will any aerodynamic effects bring you into proximity with any bits of aircraft that can get knocked off or knock bits of the parachutist.
I recall Col Parkinson at the ABFOG at Boscombe in 2000 saying of the C17 that if the Brigade can't use it just paint them white and park them up at BZN. No overseas conflict or pressure at the time, just a shortage of K frames. No J at the time.
I guess the dents from the HUPRA Dummy got knocked out of the A400! So much for all the CFD work
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Red Freds and Military Aircraft
Some years ago, I was on a task at Aldershot in a Chinook, specifically dropping the Red Freds into Aldershot DZ and Arena. We were landing in the DZ, picking them up after repacking and did so several times that day. They were a military (Parachute Regiment) team and their chutes would have been listed in our RTS. As one of the crewmen and ex FW Loadie, I would have checked this.
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PN (#3),
Some weekend in the early sixties, near Shawbury, the Red Devils were returning from a display when one of the old Dragon's engine failed. As the loaded aircraft could not now maintain height, the pilot appealed to his pax to do the decent thing.
This they did; the lightened aircraft flew on and landed safely. The SDO at Shawbury spent the rest of the afternoon sending transport to "rescue" the castaways from the low taverns in which they had taken refuge, and where they were now being royally entertaind.
Or so I was told, as it was before my time there.
D.
Some weekend in the early sixties, near Shawbury, the Red Devils were returning from a display when one of the old Dragon's engine failed. As the loaded aircraft could not now maintain height, the pilot appealed to his pax to do the decent thing.
This they did; the lightened aircraft flew on and landed safely. The SDO at Shawbury spent the rest of the afternoon sending transport to "rescue" the castaways from the low taverns in which they had taken refuge, and where they were now being royally entertaind.
Or so I was told, as it was before my time there.
D.
Netheravon Islander
There were Islanders in sunny Wiltshire as the JSPC and the RE Parachute Team utilised it along with the Red Devils
I've jumped from the JSPC Islander back in the noughties when I was an OcDt in the UOTC. I also believe there was also another Islander for the other JSPC club in Germany for the BAOR/BFG
Watched a video of the Sappers display team doing their stuff in USA jumping out of a Twin Otter (could not tell if it was the Golden Knights or civvy one due to the sun was behind the a/c)
Cheers
I've jumped from the JSPC Islander back in the noughties when I was an OcDt in the UOTC. I also believe there was also another Islander for the other JSPC club in Germany for the BAOR/BFG
Watched a video of the Sappers display team doing their stuff in USA jumping out of a Twin Otter (could not tell if it was the Golden Knights or civvy one due to the sun was behind the a/c)
Cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 22nd Aug 2017 at 17:56.
