USMC MV-22 down off Queensland coast
The V-22 certainly seems to be a troubled type. Have there been comparable losses of any rotary wing aircraft?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acci...he_V-22_Osprey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acci...he_V-22_Osprey
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My thoughts to the missing and their families.
The USS Bonhomme doesnt have a good track record itself. There's the Sea Knight that got caught up, and a Harrier as far as i know that have failed landings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DDDpI263qE
The USS Bonhomme doesnt have a good track record itself. There's the Sea Knight that got caught up, and a Harrier as far as i know that have failed landings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DDDpI263qE
tubby, suggest you stick to what you know: commercial flying.
Are you ghost writing for David Axe? The year is 2017. Suggest you look at mishaps per flight hour, which is the standard that the USN uses for assessing if there are problems or not. I'll ask you this question: a while back a UH-60 Army Black Hawk went down on a golf course in Maryland. Tail rotor failure. One dead. Where were you then with your "troubled type" noise?
Hey, how about this? Go read the news. About a year ago an Army Apache went down near Galveston, Texas. The freaking Rotor Blade came off in flight. Two dead.
(There's a thread on PPRuNe about it). I guess according to Tubby, it's a "troubled type."
The V-22 certainly seems to be a troubled type.
Hey, how about this? Go read the news. About a year ago an Army Apache went down near Galveston, Texas. The freaking Rotor Blade came off in flight. Two dead.
(There's a thread on PPRuNe about it). I guess according to Tubby, it's a "troubled type."
I believe the problem the Osprey has is one of perception. Since there are so few users outside of the USA many people believe it is still a new toy that hasn't seen much use. That is obviously far from the truth but the fact remains that it just doesn't get seen by many users of this forum so they believe it has a poor accident rate.
Nine hull losses in over 25 years for a military platform with high usage is sadly not that bad!
BV
Nine hull losses in over 25 years for a military platform with high usage is sadly not that bad!
BV
tubby, suggest you stick to what you know: commercial flying.
Are you ghost writing for David Axe? The year is 2017. Suggest you look at mishaps per flight hour, which is the standard that the USN uses for assessing if there are problems or not. I'll ask you this question: a while back a UH-60 Army Black Hawk went down on a golf course in Maryland. Tail rotor failure. One dead. Where were you then with your "troubled type" noise?
Hey, how about this? Go read the news. About a year ago an Army Apache went down near Galveston, Texas. The freaking Rotor Blade came off in flight. Two dead.
(There's a thread on PPRuNe about it). I guess according to Tubby, it's a "troubled type."
Are you ghost writing for David Axe? The year is 2017. Suggest you look at mishaps per flight hour, which is the standard that the USN uses for assessing if there are problems or not. I'll ask you this question: a while back a UH-60 Army Black Hawk went down on a golf course in Maryland. Tail rotor failure. One dead. Where were you then with your "troubled type" noise?
Hey, how about this? Go read the news. About a year ago an Army Apache went down near Galveston, Texas. The freaking Rotor Blade came off in flight. Two dead.
(There's a thread on PPRuNe about it). I guess according to Tubby, it's a "troubled type."
As somebody else has posted it is about perception. Rotors have been coming off helicopters for years so why the reference to the Blackhawk, it was hardly revoluntionary technology, unlike this death trap. Who is David Axe?
Last edited by tubby linton; 5th Aug 2017 at 20:37.
Re David Axe. A know it all journo who took every opportunity to slap the Osprey.
I'll rephrase LW's post in a different way, why would you call into question the Osprey when you don't have command of the facts to do so?
I'll rephrase LW's post in a different way, why would you call into question the Osprey when you don't have command of the facts to do so?
West coast, the data can easily be found here.http://www.public.navy.mil/NAVSAFECEN/Pages/index.aspx
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Sad news:
Search for missing U.S. Marines becomes recovery effort after crash off Australia | Reuters
The U.S. Navy and Marine Corps suspended their search and rescue efforts on Sunday for three U.S. Marines missing after their aircraft crashed into the sea off Australia's northeast coast a day earlier, the U.S. Marine Corps said.
The Marine Corps said they had shifted to recovery efforts in coordination with the Australian Defence Force, which could last several months, and had notified the next-of-kin of the three missing Marines.
"The transition comes after teams led continuous sustained search efforts supported by aircraft and ships," the III Marine Expeditionary Force, based in Okinawa, Japan, said.
The Marine Corps said they had shifted to recovery efforts in coordination with the Australian Defence Force, which could last several months, and had notified the next-of-kin of the three missing Marines.
"The transition comes after teams led continuous sustained search efforts supported by aircraft and ships," the III Marine Expeditionary Force, based in Okinawa, Japan, said.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Whatever happened it seems to have departed the deck after the impact.
"...The aircraft had launched from the USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) and was conducting regularly-scheduled operations when it crashed into the waters on its final approach to the USS Green Bay at 2:07 a.m. ET, NBC News learned.
There were 21 passengers and five crew on board. All went into the water with the aircraft.
Vessels and aircraft from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit and the Bonhomme Richard Expeditionary Strike Group immediately responded and were taking part in the rescue operation. Rigid hulled inflatable boats from the USS Green Bay and an MH-60 Seahawk helicopter from the USS Bonhomme Richard began an immediate search. By 3 a.m. ET, 23 marines were recovered safely, including one person with a non-life-threatening injury who was later medevaced to shore for treatment.
The USS Green Bay Flight deck was damaged and left inoperable.
The aircraft involved was described as a MV-22 and was assigned to the Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 265 of the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit......"
"...The aircraft had launched from the USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) and was conducting regularly-scheduled operations when it crashed into the waters on its final approach to the USS Green Bay at 2:07 a.m. ET, NBC News learned.
There were 21 passengers and five crew on board. All went into the water with the aircraft.
Vessels and aircraft from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit and the Bonhomme Richard Expeditionary Strike Group immediately responded and were taking part in the rescue operation. Rigid hulled inflatable boats from the USS Green Bay and an MH-60 Seahawk helicopter from the USS Bonhomme Richard began an immediate search. By 3 a.m. ET, 23 marines were recovered safely, including one person with a non-life-threatening injury who was later medevaced to shore for treatment.
The USS Green Bay Flight deck was damaged and left inoperable.
The aircraft involved was described as a MV-22 and was assigned to the Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 265 of the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit......"
Tar
Sink rate to enter VRS on the V-22 is twice that of a helicopter and is at least 2500 fpm which is 3 times NATOP max sink rate. Also the 22 has numerous warnings to alert even the densest pilot he is approaching an excessive decent rate. Finally all pilots are taught that if they are stupid enough to develop an excessive sink rate a slight forward tilt of the nacelles will immediately get the aircraft out of VRS.
Sink rate to enter VRS on the V-22 is twice that of a helicopter and is at least 2500 fpm which is 3 times NATOP max sink rate. Also the 22 has numerous warnings to alert even the densest pilot he is approaching an excessive decent rate. Finally all pilots are taught that if they are stupid enough to develop an excessive sink rate a slight forward tilt of the nacelles will immediately get the aircraft out of VRS.
Last edited by The Sultan; 6th Aug 2017 at 12:23.
USS Green Bay Public Page
USS Green Bay (LPD 20)
and a flight deck pic
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navals...7632119913785/
an Osprey
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navals...7632119913785/
and a Sea Stallion
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navals...7632119913785/
f
USS Green Bay (LPD 20)
and a flight deck pic
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navals...7632119913785/
an Osprey
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navals...7632119913785/
and a Sea Stallion
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navals...7632119913785/
f
From Australian Associated Press :
Tokyo asks Washington to halt Osprey flights in Japan after crash off Australia | The Japan Times
Dive teams are preparing to recover the submerged wreckage a US military aircraft that went down in waters off the central Queensland coast, leaving three Marines presumed dead.
The tilt-rotor MV-22 Osprey plunged into the sea at Shoalwater Bay, near Rockhampton, during a scheduled military exercise on Saturday.
Late on Monday, Defence Minister Marise Payne said the HMAS Melville had located the aircraft.
The Royal Australian Navy dive clearance team finalised recovery plans with the US Marine Corps and US Navy, a spokesperson for the USMC told AAP on Monday night.
"The dive team plans to commence recovery operations using a remote operating vehicle this evening," they said.
The commanding general of the III Marine Expeditionary Force, Lieutenant General Lawrence Nicholson, thanked the Australian Defence Force for their help in the recovery efforts.
"They volunteered their help before we could even ask, demonstrating their friendship and value as international partners," Lt Gen Nicholson said.
"The crew of the Melville and its assets have been invaluable in the recovery effort. On behalf of the Marines, sailors, and families of III MEF, I thank you for your support."
The Osprey took off from the USS Bonhomme Richard on Saturday afternoon before it reportedly smashed into the deck of the transport ship USS Green Bay while trying to land.
There were 26 people aboard the aircraft, but only 23 were rescued.
Osprey crew chief Corporal Nathan Ordway and Lieutenant Benjamin Robert Cross have been identified as two of the three missing Marines.
Corp Ordway's sister Taylor asked people to pray for her brother and the two other crew members in a post on the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit's Facebook page.
Ryan Cross confirmed his younger brother was one of the people unaccounted for during an interview with CBS Radio in the US.
Mr Cross said his brother always knew he wanted to be a pilot in the military.
"It had been his dream," he told CBS on Sunday.
Mr Cross said his brother was devoted to his family and the Marine Corps, but would also do anything for anybody who needed help
"He's the type of friend everybody wishes they had and the type of person everybody wishes they knew," he said.
Payne said earlier that recovery efforts would be difficult and it was feared the mission could drag on for months.
The latest incident is the 10th known crash involving an Osprey - an aircraft that takes off and lands like a helicopter but flies like an aeroplane - since 1991.
The Japan Times reported on Monday the country's defence minister had asked the US to stop flying the MV-22 in its air space, because of concerns over safety.
The tilt-rotor MV-22 Osprey plunged into the sea at Shoalwater Bay, near Rockhampton, during a scheduled military exercise on Saturday.
Late on Monday, Defence Minister Marise Payne said the HMAS Melville had located the aircraft.
The Royal Australian Navy dive clearance team finalised recovery plans with the US Marine Corps and US Navy, a spokesperson for the USMC told AAP on Monday night.
"The dive team plans to commence recovery operations using a remote operating vehicle this evening," they said.
The commanding general of the III Marine Expeditionary Force, Lieutenant General Lawrence Nicholson, thanked the Australian Defence Force for their help in the recovery efforts.
"They volunteered their help before we could even ask, demonstrating their friendship and value as international partners," Lt Gen Nicholson said.
"The crew of the Melville and its assets have been invaluable in the recovery effort. On behalf of the Marines, sailors, and families of III MEF, I thank you for your support."
The Osprey took off from the USS Bonhomme Richard on Saturday afternoon before it reportedly smashed into the deck of the transport ship USS Green Bay while trying to land.
There were 26 people aboard the aircraft, but only 23 were rescued.
Osprey crew chief Corporal Nathan Ordway and Lieutenant Benjamin Robert Cross have been identified as two of the three missing Marines.
Corp Ordway's sister Taylor asked people to pray for her brother and the two other crew members in a post on the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit's Facebook page.
Ryan Cross confirmed his younger brother was one of the people unaccounted for during an interview with CBS Radio in the US.
Mr Cross said his brother always knew he wanted to be a pilot in the military.
"It had been his dream," he told CBS on Sunday.
Mr Cross said his brother was devoted to his family and the Marine Corps, but would also do anything for anybody who needed help
"He's the type of friend everybody wishes they had and the type of person everybody wishes they knew," he said.
Payne said earlier that recovery efforts would be difficult and it was feared the mission could drag on for months.
The latest incident is the 10th known crash involving an Osprey - an aircraft that takes off and lands like a helicopter but flies like an aeroplane - since 1991.
The Japan Times reported on Monday the country's defence minister had asked the US to stop flying the MV-22 in its air space, because of concerns over safety.
I recall you giving me the business on that cargo crash that hit the ridge ... I guess memories are short. Not to mention that I spent no few years flying and teaching in instrument conditions, fixed wing and rotary, and was a CRM instructor ... but some of your chastisement regarding type specific issues was well made.
As to the V-22: when considering the aircraft, it is important to look at the V-22 problems in two phases. One was the development phase, up to the early 00's and the point of the crash that stopped the program dead in its tracks. We'd been working on the training pipeline and skill areas on how to feed the FRS at New River when that went to all stop.
They had to go back and look at some flying characteristics (VRS among others) and program management, and either stay stopped or go forward. There were some things fixed.
From that point forward, you've got a different profile on accident's and incidents. Helicopters have now and again come to the back of the ship with people on board an balled it up for about five decades. Not surprised to see that environment hold risks for the Osprey as well.
Disappointed to see this happen, as I was when a -46 or a -53 did likewise. Glad that most of the people got recovered, but saddened to see three still lost.
The presumption that the type of aircraft is the root cause of this accident, which you made, strikes me as both premature and not in keeping with your usual approach on accidents in the areas where you are more expert.
Thus my question: are you playing David Axe? (Axe is a gadfly/journalist who tried to make a career of criticizing the Osprey).
Aside: Lieutenant General Lawrence Nicholson: holy smokes, he used to live right down the street from me when he was a Major. Looks like Larry's done good!
As to the V-22: when considering the aircraft, it is important to look at the V-22 problems in two phases. One was the development phase, up to the early 00's and the point of the crash that stopped the program dead in its tracks. We'd been working on the training pipeline and skill areas on how to feed the FRS at New River when that went to all stop.
They had to go back and look at some flying characteristics (VRS among others) and program management, and either stay stopped or go forward. There were some things fixed.
From that point forward, you've got a different profile on accident's and incidents. Helicopters have now and again come to the back of the ship with people on board an balled it up for about five decades. Not surprised to see that environment hold risks for the Osprey as well.
Disappointed to see this happen, as I was when a -46 or a -53 did likewise. Glad that most of the people got recovered, but saddened to see three still lost.
The presumption that the type of aircraft is the root cause of this accident, which you made, strikes me as both premature and not in keeping with your usual approach on accidents in the areas where you are more expert.
Thus my question: are you playing David Axe? (Axe is a gadfly/journalist who tried to make a career of criticizing the Osprey).
Aside: Lieutenant General Lawrence Nicholson: holy smokes, he used to live right down the street from me when he was a Major. Looks like Larry's done good!
