Trumps Bars Transgender From Military
Fair enough, but the same question either way, why should the British taxpayers be on the hook for an elective surgery that comes with associated time away from mission and added logistical challenges of accommodating the transition?
I'm firmly in the libertarian camp here, do what you need to, just don't ask me to pay for it.
I'm firmly in the libertarian camp here, do what you need to, just don't ask me to pay for it.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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It's not elective. At least at present in the UK it is considered a medical necessity after extensive investigation.
In my case from the first time I spoke to my doctor to the first specialist appointment I had took 18 months - with the limited number of clinics that has for many extended to 4+ years before their first appointment. Then there are a minimum series of psychological interviews stretching over 18 months before being passed onto the doctors, then second opinions from a second psychiatrist etc etc. The whole thing can take up to 10 years for those with no private funds.
I attend a charity group where some 16-17 year olds attend whilst living in council accommodation,as they were estranged from their families, in towns where they knew no one and were regularity beaten up and abused and could afford to travel to the charity once a month. With years of a wait for an appointment, meanwhile unable to afford anti-androgen pills and physically growing into bodies they despise. Unable to obtain work and with an increasingly vocal anti-TG movement, I am surprised the suicide rate is not higher.
As to the US forces paying? The DoD medical annual budget is around $3.6B, the maximum TG estimated TG cost is around $8M, a rounding error in the annual cost and vanishingly small against the cost of VD treatment - which seems remarkably acceptable as a cost of doing business.
In my case from the first time I spoke to my doctor to the first specialist appointment I had took 18 months - with the limited number of clinics that has for many extended to 4+ years before their first appointment. Then there are a minimum series of psychological interviews stretching over 18 months before being passed onto the doctors, then second opinions from a second psychiatrist etc etc. The whole thing can take up to 10 years for those with no private funds.
I attend a charity group where some 16-17 year olds attend whilst living in council accommodation,as they were estranged from their families, in towns where they knew no one and were regularity beaten up and abused and could afford to travel to the charity once a month. With years of a wait for an appointment, meanwhile unable to afford anti-androgen pills and physically growing into bodies they despise. Unable to obtain work and with an increasingly vocal anti-TG movement, I am surprised the suicide rate is not higher.
As to the US forces paying? The DoD medical annual budget is around $3.6B, the maximum TG estimated TG cost is around $8M, a rounding error in the annual cost and vanishingly small against the cost of VD treatment - which seems remarkably acceptable as a cost of doing business.
It's not elective. At least at present in the UK it is considered a medical necessity after extensive investigation.
around $8M,
Unable to obtain work and with an increasingly vocal anti-TG movement, I am surprised the suicide rate is not higher.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
The NHS is so squeezed it doesn't pay for anything it doesn't consider a necessity.
I would beg to differ, the military is one of the major tools the US government has to influence societal change across the nation - as it did for racial equality.
You ignore history and reality as too why many join the forces to escape depression from many causes including poverty, lack of education, familial rejection, racial discrimination etc etc - and in the armed forces find a home. As do many in other countries. The French Foreign Legion is famous for accepting those who wish to forget their past - and is renowned for their loyalty and bravery in action.
I would beg to differ, the military is one of the major tools the US government has to influence societal change across the nation - as it did for racial equality.
You ignore history and reality as too why many join the forces to escape depression from many causes including poverty, lack of education, familial rejection, racial discrimination etc etc - and in the armed forces find a home. As do many in other countries. The French Foreign Legion is famous for accepting those who wish to forget their past - and is renowned for their loyalty and bravery in action.
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Yet you are quite happy that the DoD spends 10 times that amount on viagra?
This isn't about money saving or Operational Effectiveness, but everything about pandering to a bunch of swivel eyed, drooling, Alt-Right bigots.
This isn't about money saving or Operational Effectiveness, but everything about pandering to a bunch of swivel eyed, drooling, Alt-Right bigots.
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Is all this anger simply because of hatred for people who were born with the wrong balance of hormones for the gender of their bodies?
Or does it really come down to money, because if it does, you definitely need to re-ban women as they will all want to leave and have babies. And as for those self-interested gold diggers who get their education, licences, qualifications paid for them - burn them now.
not sure what we'd all be left with, or who would be interested in joining - but hell, down with this sort of thing!
Personally speaking, I was never happier the first time I felt a pair of breasts weighing down on my chest. Mind you, they weren't mine, so a bit off topic.
Or does it really come down to money, because if it does, you definitely need to re-ban women as they will all want to leave and have babies. And as for those self-interested gold diggers who get their education, licences, qualifications paid for them - burn them now.
not sure what we'd all be left with, or who would be interested in joining - but hell, down with this sort of thing!
Personally speaking, I was never happier the first time I felt a pair of breasts weighing down on my chest. Mind you, they weren't mine, so a bit off topic.
No, I'm not "quite happy" about it, it's more money spent on something other than the core mission.
ORAC, you're offering opinion as to the military being an agent of social change. While it has in the past, so has professional sports by integrating the game, yet that's not it's goal, making money is. The military doesn't need additional distractions from the mission. Taking in depressed youth who are joining the further their transition needs is a burden on the mission.
Edited, the US department of defense mission statement mentions nothing about affecting social change.
ORAC, you're offering opinion as to the military being an agent of social change. While it has in the past, so has professional sports by integrating the game, yet that's not it's goal, making money is. The military doesn't need additional distractions from the mission. Taking in depressed youth who are joining the further their transition needs is a burden on the mission.
Edited, the US department of defense mission statement mentions nothing about affecting social change.
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The more I read all those posts, the more I become convinced that's the problem of Americans, apparently also the Brits (and therefore the Australians, the Canadians...)
What a military they have now - 20 years ago when I had the misfortune to serve along them on a couple of theaters, it was already a disaster in terms of discipline, drug addiction, racial and gender search for "equality" - fortunately for them , their industry is making good product to go to war with, and their movie industry is then convincing the population that they are always winners. Will it stay for ever ? Let's wait and see ...
In the meantime please keep your social progress within your borders.
What a military they have now - 20 years ago when I had the misfortune to serve along them on a couple of theaters, it was already a disaster in terms of discipline, drug addiction, racial and gender search for "equality" - fortunately for them , their industry is making good product to go to war with, and their movie industry is then convincing the population that they are always winners. Will it stay for ever ? Let's wait and see ...
In the meantime please keep your social progress within your borders.
In the meantime please keep your social progress within your borders.
It's the best place for you and your bigoted opinions.
Is all this anger simply because of hatred for people who were born with the wrong balance of hormones for the gender of their bodies?
"All" this hatred?
What is this "All" you speak of?
Seems a few perhaps....but "All" seems a bit too inclusive a description.
Society has always had segments of the total population that showed some "hatred" towards others....with it going back and forth in multiple directions for any number of reasons.
Most of the concerns expressed do not in any way constitute "hatred".
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"What a military they have now - 20 years ago when I had the misfortune to serve along them on a couple of theaters, it was already a disaster in terms of discipline, drug addiction, racial and gender search for "equality""
Armed forces reflect the society they come from - the ACTUAL society - not the one we hear about from politicians, movie makers and optimists. If there are problems with discipline, drug addiction etc then they are already prevalent in society - not much you can do about it TBH. But these you also get a wider view, people who can operate very high tech kit and not just blindly obey orders but show iniative, peopel who are aware of other cultures etc - swings and roundabouts
Armed forces reflect the society they come from - the ACTUAL society - not the one we hear about from politicians, movie makers and optimists. If there are problems with discipline, drug addiction etc then they are already prevalent in society - not much you can do about it TBH. But these you also get a wider view, people who can operate very high tech kit and not just blindly obey orders but show iniative, peopel who are aware of other cultures etc - swings and roundabouts
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
If there are problems with discipline.. not much you can do about it TBH.
You do the same with your kids ? Everybody knows that they are a little bit wild in your country, from a very young age.
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
But these you also get a wider view, peopel who are aware of other cultures
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
West Coast you ignored this important element in ORACs post
I don't have any knowledge of number or cost, but that statement needs to be acknowledged or refuted.
I know that 25 years ago the cost of discharging drug users was so high that the rules were changed and rehab was introduced.
As to the US forces paying? The DoD medical annual budget is around $3.6B,. . . the annual cost . . . vanishingly small against the cost of VD treatment - which seems remarkably acceptable as a cost of doing business.
I know that 25 years ago the cost of discharging drug users was so high that the rules were changed and rehab was introduced.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
West Coast, not at all, it is that post that caused me to point out what you had ignored.
If the incidence of VD and the cost of treatment exceeds that of TG then it is indeed a startling situation as it would appear to be tolerated. Such was its debilitating effect that condoms were issued in the Far East and I think VD, and certainly its concealment, was an offence.
Now would you care to comment.
If the incidence of VD and the cost of treatment exceeds that of TG then it is indeed a startling situation as it would appear to be tolerated. Such was its debilitating effect that condoms were issued in the Far East and I think VD, and certainly its concealment, was an offence.
Now would you care to comment.
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Idiots who think it's about cost might like to take note:
https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle...12?pnref=story
https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle...12?pnref=story
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"All" this hatred?
What is this "All" you speak of?
Seems a few perhaps....but "All" seems a bit too inclusive a description.
Society has always had segments of the total population that showed some "hatred" towards others....with it going back and forth in multiple directions for any number of reasons.
Most of the concerns expressed do not in any way constitute "hatred".
What is this "All" you speak of?
Seems a few perhaps....but "All" seems a bit too inclusive a description.
Society has always had segments of the total population that showed some "hatred" towards others....with it going back and forth in multiple directions for any number of reasons.
Most of the concerns expressed do not in any way constitute "hatred".
If you read my post again you will see that the "all" refers to the anger that this subject seems to have caused. Yes, all of it. The hatred i refer to is the act of choosing a new group of people to discriminate against. And yes, I do think it qualifies as hatred.
My comments are directed at the whole debate, and not meant as a criticism of the discussion here - my apologies if it came over as such.
Last edited by Bigbux; 2nd Aug 2017 at 20:40.
