USMC KC-130 down in Mississippi
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RIP to those killed.
The KC-130J can now carry and fire Hellfire missiles from under its wings as well as remove the aux fuel tank and carry pax, a very versatile if somewhat noisy aircraft!
The KC-130J can now carry and fire Hellfire missiles from under its wings as well as remove the aux fuel tank and carry pax, a very versatile if somewhat noisy aircraft!
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7100671855/
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Do the USMC fit cockpit or flight data recorders?
Whilst it might seem logical, there is the issue of the discussion of classified data during an operation which would make the CDR classified, meaning it was classified and had to be guarded/removed etc.
Whilst it might seem logical, there is the issue of the discussion of classified data during an operation which would make the CDR classified, meaning it was classified and had to be guarded/removed etc.
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About ten years ago -452 almost lost a KC-130T while in flight.
Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hangar deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts.
The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck.
The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana.
This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data.
S/F, FOG
Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hangar deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts.
The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck.
The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana.
This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data.
S/F, FOG
An eyewitness report stated the aircraft was just "spiralling straight down" and a state trooper has reported that the aircraft was carrying a large amount of ammunition which was cooking off in the fire.
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Some Spec Ops folks onboard according to this report:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/u...ane-crash.html
Six of the Marines and the Navy corpsman were assigned to the Marine Raiders, an elite special operations force. They belonged to the Second Marine Raider Battalion, based at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, according to Maj. Nicholas Mannweiler, a spokesman for the Marine Corps Special Operations Forces.
Major Mannweiler said the Raiders were scheduled to conduct “routine” training in Yuma, Ariz., lasting a few days to a couple of weeks, for small teams preparing for deployment overseas. He would not comment on when or where they were to be sent, but the Raiders are assigned to Central Command, which conducts operations in the Middle East, South Asia and Central Asia, including Afghanistan and Iraq.
Major Mannweiler said the Raiders were scheduled to conduct “routine” training in Yuma, Ariz., lasting a few days to a couple of weeks, for small teams preparing for deployment overseas. He would not comment on when or where they were to be sent, but the Raiders are assigned to Central Command, which conducts operations in the Middle East, South Asia and Central Asia, including Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Can confirm that there was no active weather in the crash zone around 21z Monday, satellite imagery indicates clear skies between Jackson and Memphis and upper air charts closest to that time look benign at flight level and throughout the column.
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About ten years ago -452 almost lost a KC-130T while in flight.
Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hangar deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts.
The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck.
The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana.
This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data.
S/F, FOG
Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hangar deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts.
The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck.
The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana.
This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data.
S/F, FOG
I can't remember an incident where a T model C-130 was struck off.
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That NYtimes article down at the bottom quotes an eye witness that saw someone jump out of the aircraft and parachute to the ground. Is that confirmed or just fake news ?
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Otherwise safety record good with a list of major accidents over 40 years here:
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/11/mar...-safety-record
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/11/mar...-safety-record
Thread Starter
Several reports mention a series of rolling low-intensity booms (like thunder) before seeing the aircraft spinning down.
One early report mentioned the cockpit section being found far from the main airframe wreckage - haven't seen that mentioned elsewhere, though.
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Another retelling of the 'inflight breakup': Evidence From Marine KC-130 Crash Site Points to Mid-Air Disaster | Military.com
Salute!
So sad, but gotta find out why and not let it happen again if possible.
Gotta tellya that back in 'nam the grunts scared the hell outta my trash-hauler buddies. They would crawl on a 123 or 'bou with C4 bars and grenades and mucho 7.72 or 5.56 in their ditty bags. So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear.
The lack of severe wx is disturbing, although the Herc is a tough bird and is used to penetrate hurricanes on a regular basis.
Ditto for CFIT, as it looks like the main fuselage hit inverted.
Gums sends...
So sad, but gotta find out why and not let it happen again if possible.
Gotta tellya that back in 'nam the grunts scared the hell outta my trash-hauler buddies. They would crawl on a 123 or 'bou with C4 bars and grenades and mucho 7.72 or 5.56 in their ditty bags. So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear.
The lack of severe wx is disturbing, although the Herc is a tough bird and is used to penetrate hurricanes on a regular basis.
Ditto for CFIT, as it looks like the main fuselage hit inverted.
Gums sends...
From today's brief by Commanding General of Forth Marine Air Wing, USMC Reserve:
Tail Number 165000 built in 1993 (so one of the newer ones - last of fleet delivered 1995).
Experienced an emergency at "cruise altitude".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/u...ane-crash.html
From a former mechanic on type who is now a historian for the model:
"According to federal aviation records, the plane was damaged in 2004, when a wind storm tipped it sideways onto one wing, while it was on the ground in Fort Worth. In 2010, a storm piled so much snow on the plane that it tipped back, its nose in the air."
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Undoubtedly structural checks will have been carried out after those incidents - and it would have had the equivalent of a Major scheduled maintenance since - but I can't help thinking whether there were any abnormal forces applied to the structure during either.
Tail Number 165000 built in 1993 (so one of the newer ones - last of fleet delivered 1995).
Experienced an emergency at "cruise altitude".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/u...ane-crash.html
From a former mechanic on type who is now a historian for the model:
"According to federal aviation records, the plane was damaged in 2004, when a wind storm tipped it sideways onto one wing, while it was on the ground in Fort Worth. In 2010, a storm piled so much snow on the plane that it tipped back, its nose in the air."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Undoubtedly structural checks will have been carried out after those incidents - and it would have had the equivalent of a Major scheduled maintenance since - but I can't help thinking whether there were any abnormal forces applied to the structure during either.
gums wrote:
Indeed. Despite the crash damage and post-crash fires, an onboard explosion would leave a clear 'signature' for analysis.
Does this model of C-130 have fuel tank inerting or explosion suppression?
RIP
So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear.
Does this model of C-130 have fuel tank inerting or explosion suppression?
RIP
Salute!
Dunno if the USAF Talon birds have suppression, but think so. I doubt the USMC birds have such, but you never know. Shame, but my neighbor two doors down just retired from flying the USAF MC-130, but I am 1200 milles away now and can't get with him easily.
BEagle is right about forensic evidence, although seems witnesses reported many secondaries after the plane hit the field. That will complicate things unless a piece of debris from a half mile away has "traces".
Gums opines...
Dunno if the USAF Talon birds have suppression, but think so. I doubt the USMC birds have such, but you never know. Shame, but my neighbor two doors down just retired from flying the USAF MC-130, but I am 1200 milles away now and can't get with him easily.
BEagle is right about forensic evidence, although seems witnesses reported many secondaries after the plane hit the field. That will complicate things unless a piece of debris from a half mile away has "traces".
Gums opines...
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Thaihawk,
I did a quick look through my records on the MIR endorsement chain (USN to USMC back to USN) and didn’t see a copy of the BUNO. Obviously didn’t keep a copy of the MIR.
All KC-130s were retro-fitted with foam in all tanks except the fuselage in the 2004-2006 time frame.
Talked to a retired FE who is now a Lockheed tech-rep. Late 90s -252 ( Cherry Point) almost lost an aircraft on takeoff when a bleed air duct blew out on take off just missing the inboard port fuel tank by inches. Not even “C” level damage but resulted in replacing all KC-130 F&R bleed air ducts. Not sure if the Ts had their ducts replaced as they were newer acft. and a different pot of money.
S/F, FOG
I did a quick look through my records on the MIR endorsement chain (USN to USMC back to USN) and didn’t see a copy of the BUNO. Obviously didn’t keep a copy of the MIR.
All KC-130s were retro-fitted with foam in all tanks except the fuselage in the 2004-2006 time frame.
Talked to a retired FE who is now a Lockheed tech-rep. Late 90s -252 ( Cherry Point) almost lost an aircraft on takeoff when a bleed air duct blew out on take off just missing the inboard port fuel tank by inches. Not even “C” level damage but resulted in replacing all KC-130 F&R bleed air ducts. Not sure if the Ts had their ducts replaced as they were newer acft. and a different pot of money.
S/F, FOG
Last edited by FOG; 13th Jul 2017 at 03:08. Reason: spelling
Officials confirmed aircraft broke into at least 2 pieces in the air (presumably obvious from 2 widely separated large items of wreckage on the ground).
This media item taken from link on USMC Forces Reserve website:
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/12/mar...least-2-pieces
This media item taken from link on USMC Forces Reserve website:
https://news.usni.org/2017/07/12/mar...least-2-pieces
